Jake Allen

[ChuckLefley]

There's no denying we had issues.

However, what was the most glaring?

Our **** PP, too many men on the ice, Bouwmeester infected, lack of forward talent group of a team managed to pull off wins with Hutton and seemingly dissolved entirely with Allen.

In reality if he stops a basic point shot with 8 seconds left were a playoff team.

However I moreso blame Yeo for the disaster last season than Allen in the grand scheme of the season. The fact Butler played that game or that Allen even hit 50 games is beyond me. I don't even wanna go into the rest.

You could also say that if Hutton hadn’t had a terrible last half of the season we would have made the playoffs.

 

[Majorityof1]

You could also say that if Hutton hadn’t had a terrible last half of the season we would have made the playoffs.

Wait...what?!? I am not going tgo pull the game log data, because quite frankly its not worth it. But how can you be "terrible" for "half" a season and still lead the league in GAA and Save percentage?

 

[Evocable Manager]

You could also say that if Hutton hadn’t had a terrible last half of the season we would have made the playoffs.

Wait...what?!? I am not going tgo pull the game log data, because quite frankly its not worth it. But how can you be "terrible" for "half" a season and still lead the league in GAA and Save percentage?

From January 1st 2018 to April 7th 2018 or the "last half of the season," Carter Hutton was the following:
11-4-3 with a .922 sv% and a 2.31 GAA along with 2 shutouts.

Well that's just terrible now isn't it...

 

[ChuckLefley]

Sorry, a better way to put it would have been the last half of the games he played. Six games with a sub .900, including games under .800 and .700. Seven losses. Ten of a possible 20 points in his last ten games.

Yep, no way we can say anything bad about Hutton.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Sorry, a better way to put it would have been the last half of the games he played. Six games with a sub .900, including games under .800 and .700. Seven losses. Ten of a possible 20 points in his last ten games.

Yep, no way we can say anything bad about Hutton.

Okay well then fine let's shrink it.

He had 10 starts and played in 12 games from January 25th on.

6-3-2 with a .916 and 2.54 GAA

When compared to Allens 9-11-1 with a .900 and 2.77 over the same time frame it's still clear that Hutton was better. With Hutton in net the team still netted 14/22 points and a points percentage of 0.636, in other terms, a PLAYOFF team.

Ignoring starts and simply looking at the last ten games he played in, from February 3rd on, he posted a 4-3-2 with a .900 and 2.90. That's admittedly not good really at all but he was STILL better than Allens 9-10-1 with a .896 and 2.81.

What you're doing is cherry picking specific games from the course of the season. If you wanna play that game then there's no such thing as a good goalie.

 

[TruBlu]

Okay well then fine let's shrink it.

He had 10 starts and played in 12 games from January 25th on.

6-3-2 with a .916 and 2.54 GAA

When compared to Allens 9-11-1 with a .900 and 2.77 over the same time frame it's still clear that Hutton was better. With Hutton in net the team still netted 14/22 points and a points percentage of 0.636, in other terms, a PLAYOFF team.

Ignoring starts and simply looking at the last ten games he played in, from February 3rd on, he posted a 4-3-2 with a .900 and 2.90. That's admittedly not good really at all but he was STILL better than Allens 9-10-1 with a .896 and 2.81.

What you're doing is cherry picking specific games from the course of the season. If you wanna play that game then there's no such thing as a good goalie.

Why do you keep comparing him to Allen? As much as this board likes to hate on Allen, that is not a very good mark to set. I think, and I may be wrong, his critique is that any improved facet of the team leads to a post season berth. Case in point; many people point to the last game against Chicago and say Jake kept us out of the post season. One could look back over the entire season and point to many games where the team could have statistically won because Jake kept the team at 2 goals or less, yet they, as a team, couldn't produce.

 

[Thallis]

Why do you keep comparing him to Allen? As much as this board likes to hate on Allen, that is not a very good mark to set. I think, and I may be wrong, his critique is that any improved facet of the team leads to a post season berth. Case in point; many people point to the last game against Chicago and say Jake kept us out of the post season. One could look back over the entire season and point to many games where the team could have statistically won because Jake kept the team at 2 goals or less, yet they, as a team, couldn't produce.

You can also compare Allen to the other goalies in the league over the full course of the year and point out that if he had performed at the NHL average the Blues would have safely been in the playoffs. The Blues had one of the top defenses in the league last year in terms of both shot count and quality, but Jake Allen was below average in nearly every stat possible. There's no real argument that Allen's performance over the year wasn't a primary factor in the team's finish last season. There are obviously other places to improve because Hockey isn't so simple that you can blame a single thing, but for some reason people seem to use that as a shield to not hold the goalie accountable for his performance. Average goaltending is not an unreasonable expectation.

 

[TruBlu]

You can also compare Allen to the other goalies in the league over the full course of the year and point out that if he had performed at the NHL average the Blues would have safely been in the playoffs. The Blues had one of the top defenses in the league last year in terms of both shot count and quality, but Jake Allen was below average in nearly every stat possible. There's no real argument that Allen's performance over the year wasn't a primary factor in the team's finish last season. There are obviously other places to improve because Hockey isn't so simple that you can blame a single thing, but for some reason people seem to use that as a shield to not hold the goalie accountable for his performance. Average goaltending is not an unreasonable expectation.

I've not seen anyone hold Jake unaccountable, including myself, for our woes last season. Last night we got NHL level defense, until the 3rd period, and then you see what happened. Jake isn't an elite goalie. He isn't going to carry your team unless he hits a high. Just because the goalie is the last person the puck passes through doesn't mean he takes all the blame.

 

[Brian39]

You can also compare Allen to the other goalies in the league over the full course of the year and point out that if he had performed at the NHL average the Blues would have safely been in the playoffs. The Blues had one of the top defenses in the league last year in terms of both shot count and quality, but Jake Allen was below average in nearly every stat possible. There's no real argument that Allen's performance over the year wasn't a primary factor in the team's finish last season. There are obviously other places to improve because Hockey isn't so simple that you can blame a single thing, but for some reason people seem to use that as a shield to not hold the goalie accountable for his performance. Average goaltending is not an unreasonable expectation.

I don't think our defense played nearly as well as you're suggesting and I don't think this statement is at all true.

Allen's expected 5 on 5 SV% last year was .9251 and his actual 5 on 5 SV% was .9231, which means the difference between his actual 5 on 5 SV% and expected was -.2 for the year. That is obviously below average, as the entire point of "expected save percentage" is to quantify what the save percentage of an average goalie would be against the actual shots faced. However, among the 32 goalies with 1600 minutes played or more, his expected 5 on 5 save percentage was 22nd. Had he performed at his expected save percentage, he would have allowed 2.5 fewer goals at 5 on 5.

His shorthanded stats were brutal, but PK stats for goalies are wildly volatile and are often tossed out when evaluating goalies (similar to the way most people within the stats community view shooting percentages as inherently volatile and not necessarily a measure of a player's performance). I think Allen contributed to the Blues mediocre PK last year, but not to the extent that his PK goals against tanked his overall numbers.

Overall, I think that Allen playing at NHL average would have saved the team somewhere between 5 and 8 goals throughout his starts. It also probably would have prevented the team from starting Hutton a few extra games, which may have cost the team a couple goals since Hutton was statistically the league's best goalie last season and performed well, well above average.

Allen deserves some blame for last year. He wasn't good enough and I don't think anyone disagrees with that. But him playing NHL average would not have made us safely a playoff team. Realistically it probably would have gotten the team 2 or 3 more points in the standings. Hockey Reference's "point shares" stat suggests that Allen's play contributed 7.9 points to the team standings based on his play. The average starter contributes 10, so that suggests that we lost out on about 2 standings points based on Allen's sub-average performance. That's still putting us in the last wild card spot and uncertainty around a playoff spot in the last week of the season.

There are a number of things you can point from last season that cost this team 2-3 points in the standings. An average PP nets us 11 more PP goals over the course of the year. Tarasenko having a normal season by his standards give us another 6 or 7 goals. A competent 3rd line nets us another 6-10 goals. As an overall team, a league average offense provides 15-20 more goals than we scored last year.

Allen was one of many flaws last year and we absolutely would not have cruised into a playoff spot if he was simply NHL average.

 

[HighNote]

What you're doing is cherry picking specific games from the course of the season. If you wanna play that game then there's no such thing as a good goalie.

You cherrypicked a single shot not too long ago.

In reality if he stops a basic point shot with 8 seconds left were a playoff team.

 

[Honeycutt]

Good thing our 30th ranked ppl did not cost any games... how many goals did schenn score feb through apr when the playoff push was on? A 1pt miss is not on the goalie there were many many reasons why we missed the playoffs last year, including goaltending from Hutton and Allen.

Allen made some good saves last night when he needed to, hope he and the team can build some confidence on that and get the win in Chicago on saturday!

 

[Dbrownss]

Did anyone notice how excited Vladi was for Allen last night? I genuinely believe these guys like Allen and believe in him. I do believe them for the most part when they take the blame

 

[Majorityof1]

Did anyone notice how excited Vladi was for Allen last night? I genuinely believe these guys like Allen and believe in him. I do believe them for the most part when they take the blame

That's just Vlady when things are going well. He can be surly as all heck when alls not well. But when things are good he is a very supportive teammate.

 

[Dbrownss]

That's just Vlady when things are going well. He can be surly as all heck when alls not well. But when things are good he is a very supportive teammate.

It goes beyond that though. Beleive JR or not, usually hell let something kinda slip if there is a problem in the room.


I still really enjoyed Vladi's shot off the pipe last season when he actually showed legit anger and almost smashed his stick right then and there. Dude could be such a beast if he played pissed off

 

[BlueDream]

Good thing our 30th ranked ppl did not cost any games... how many goals did schenn score feb through apr when the playoff push was on? A 1pt miss is not on the goalie there were many many reasons why we missed the playoffs last year, including goaltending from Hutton and Allen.

Allen made some good saves last night when he needed to, hope he and the team can build some confidence on that and get the win in Chicago on saturday!

Give me a break. If you’re going to try to make an example out of a player besides the goalie, maybe don’t pick the guy who led the team in points. The team missing was obviously way more on Allen, who had a f***ing awful year, than Schenn.

 

[Honeycutt]

Give me a break. If you’re going to try to make an example out of a player besides the goalie, maybe don’t pick the guy who led the team in points. The team missing was obviously way more on Allen, who had a ****ing awful year, than Schenn.

The TEAM had the 30th ranked power play that caused then to miss the playoffs. If they were average we would have made it. Schenn had a great oct- feb. Then disappeared when it mattered also causing them to miss he playoffs... a long with 22 other skaters.

Jake Allen sucked for 5 weeks, but as illustrated above was not the sole reason we missed the playoffs and to say shows your overall ability to digest the basic logic team sports.

Jake had a good game yesterday and met see how he builds on that tomorrow.. if he continues to falter the husso era can start early and you can start blaming him for not making the playoffs.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

The TEAM had the 30th ranked power play that caused then to miss the playoffs. If they were average we would have made it. Schenn had a great oct- feb. Then disappeared when it mattered also causing them to miss he playoffs... a long with 22 other skaters.

Jake Allen sucked for 5 weeks, but as illustrated above was not the sole reason we missed the playoffs and to say shows your overall ability to digest the basic logic team sports.

Jake had a good game yesterday and met see how he builds on that tomorrow.. if he continues to falter the husso era can start early and you can start blaming him for not making the playoffs.

And where would we have been if Schenectady hadn’t had an otherworldly first half? There were lots of issues with the team. Schenn was not one of them. The power play certainly killed us. But so did a starting goalie who played like garbage for the entire season.

 

[542365]

God I hate JR's tweet after last night's game. Are we pretending Allen stole that game or something? Is allowing 3 goals good? Certainly an improvement from 5, but he had some help with at least 2 posts too. I just don't understand the faith this guy gets. He has shown nothing in his entire career to earn such a long leash, but here we are. Every single season he gets handed the starting job and every single season so far he has been outplayed by his "backup". Like if Chad Johnson had started all three of those games we likely have the exact same record, and Johnson is a dime a dozen backup. A starting goalie needs to be a difference maker. That's what makes them worth more than a backup. A backup will make the easy saves usually and keep you in the game. They're a "game manager" to steal a baseball and football term. A starting goalie, one worthy of a long term contract like Jake signed, is a consistent difference maker. He makes himself stand out above his backup. Jake has not done that outside of one playoff series against Minnesota. That's it. That's his entire positive body of work. I don't know that Ville Husso is the answer, but it's clear as day that Jake Allen is not. Can we stop pretending? This annoying agenda being pushed by Pang and Kelly and others that Jake is anything more than a backup is past its expiration date. Just suffer through this season and hope Husso is given a fair chance next year to usurp the throne.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

What was the tweet?

 

[TruBlu]

I think he was just pointing out the futility of blaming one person for last years lack of success. I don't think he was hating on Schenn.

 

[Alklha]

What was the tweet?

 

[BlueDream]

The TEAM had the 30th ranked power play that caused then to miss the playoffs. If they were average we would have made it. Schenn had a great oct- feb. Then disappeared when it mattered also causing them to miss he playoffs... a long with 22 other skaters.

Jake Allen sucked for 5 weeks, but as illustrated above was not the sole reason we missed the playoffs and to say shows your overall ability to digest the basic logic team sports.

Jake had a good game yesterday and met see how he builds on that tomorrow.. if he continues to falter the husso era can start early and you can start blaming him for not making the playoffs.

Terrible argument. Schenn and his line carried the team. We had NO depth after him, Schwartz and Tarasenko. That’s why the team sucked. The fact that you can’t realize this shows your ability to digest literally anything at all.

Allen was also a weak link and has been for this team many times. He’s had way more than 5 weeks of bad play. But continue ignoring reality.

The fact that Allen’s performance last night is one of his better ones in recent memory that people have to try and brag about shows exactly how awful he is lol.

 

[TruBlu]

God I hate JR's tweet after last night's game. Are we pretending Allen stole that game or something? Is allowing 3 goals good? Certainly an improvement from 5, but he had some help with at least 2 posts too. I just don't understand the faith this guy gets. He has shown nothing in his entire career to earn such a long leash, but here we are. Every single season he gets handed the starting job and every single season so far he has been outplayed by his "backup". Like if Chad Johnson had started all three of those games we likely have the exact same record, and Johnson is a dime a dozen backup. A starting goalie needs to be a difference maker. That's what makes them worth more than a backup. A backup will make the easy saves usually and keep you in the game. They're a "game manager" to steal a baseball and football term. A starting goalie, one worthy of a long term contract like Jake signed, is a consistent difference maker. He makes himself stand out above his backup. Jake has not done that outside of one playoff series against Minnesota. That's it. That's his entire positive body of work. I don't know that Ville Husso is the answer, but it's clear as day that Jake Allen is not. Can we stop pretending? This annoying agenda being pushed by Pang and Kelly and others that Jake is anything more than a backup is past its expiration date. Just suffer through this season and hope Husso is given a fair chance next year to usurp the throne.

I mean, the puck didn't go in, right? What more do you want? We had a couple of posts in the Chicago game. If one of those goes in we are sitting with another two points right now. The problem is that they didn't go in. It seems you just want to hate on him. Perhaps his position caused the shot to be placed further out.

 

[BlueDream]

So dumb. I hate this guy now.

Funny how he tries trolling the fans over Butler’s goal and then he promptly gets sent to the AHL.

He’s terrible at picking his battles. Try trolling about players who don’t suck so much.

 

[ChuckLefley]

Okay well then fine let's shrink it.

He had 10 starts and played in 12 games from January 25th on.

6-3-2 with a .916 and 2.54 GAA

When compared to Allens 9-11-1 with a .900 and 2.77 over the same time frame it's still clear that Hutton was better. With Hutton in net the team still netted 14/22 points and a points percentage of 0.636, in other terms, a PLAYOFF team.

Ignoring starts and simply looking at the last ten games he played in, from February 3rd on, he posted a 4-3-2 with a .900 and 2.90. That's admittedly not good really at all but he was STILL better than Allens 9-10-1 with a .896 and 2.81.

What you're doing is cherry picking specific games from the course of the season. If you wanna play that game then there's no such thing as a good goalie.

O, the only cherry picking going on is from people like you who refuse to see that Hutton was great at the start of the season and then fell off big time. First you go with starts, than you do talk about all his play, but compare it to Allen. Where did my point have anything to do with Allen? It didn’t but that’s how people who want to place the blame on the usual Blues whipping boy, the goalie, roll.

In the end the fact is that if Hutton had had so much shitty play in the last half of his season we would have made the playoffs and not had to worry about that one point shot that you blame for not making the playoffs. Those are facts, but people like you prefer to pick one person and place all the blame on him.