Jake Allen

[Captain Creampuff]

I'm willing to buy a ticket to get back on the Jake Allen bandwagon.

I've been skeptical of him but there is definitely potential there. Can't really trade him now.

Who said to trade him? He had a rough stretch of games as a young goaltender, it happens. I don't think anyone was ready to trade Allen over a short stint of games as the starter.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Allen has, and always has had, all the tools to be an elite goalie. With that said, it seems to pour when it does rain for him -- and has throughout his career (at all levels).

The only battle Allen has left to win takes place between his ears.

We just need to pump the brakes on him. He is talent wise better then Elliott, but his head isn't there yet. Over the next 3yrs, he should evolve into the starter we hope

Agree. Watching him a lot last season he was almost always super calm and had a real good tag-team partner in Climie. On a handful of occasions he got lazy, argued calls, got pissy and got all worked up, but, for the most part, he is as cool as a cucumber.

Everyone gets stressed, but some people (like Jake Allen seems to) have the ability to develop mental tools that help them to compartmentalize in order to continue moving forward. As we all know, this trait is crucial for NHL-level goaltenders. Allen has the mental tools, but he needs to continue to develop them at this level and I trust that he will.

 

[BlueOil]

If teams keep shooting high glove side on Elliott, Allen will be seeing a lot more time.

I think you're misrepresenting the goaltending situation.

Elliott's high glove can be a weakness, but it's not significant or consistent enough to be getting Allen more games and certainly not "a lot more time" barring unforeseen developments.

Elliott will be the primary starter, Allen will get back up minutes and bench minutes as Brodeur may get a start or two still. If Allen gets hot, he might be used as a 1B, but he's yet to earn that.

 

[ort]

Allen is more like a "backup plus".

Your normal starter/backup split sees the backup start in around 20% of games. I think the plan all along was to have Allen go more like 30%-40%.

He was struggling so his playing time went down. Otherwise I think it will probably be back to normal unless something changes, like another injury or someone getting super hot or cold.

 

[SneakerPimp82]

Elliott has been subpar since his injury. Chances are, Allen will get a start in the next game and if not, very soon. Allen played well spelling Elliott last night.

uh...according to what? he's played 4 games since returning, had one bad period in which the entire team looked bad, and even with that bad period(3 goals on 10 shots) has compiled a 2.40 GAA and .921 save percentage. he passes the eye test and the stats test.

to answer the isles fan, Elliott has a 1.95 GAA and .928 save percentage on the season, Allen has a 2.69 GAA and .901 save percentage. Elliott is unquestionably the starter and Allen the backup. Allen will get some games, but with Elliott's time off during his injury and another week long layoff during the all star break, Elliott will be more than well rested and will get the lion's share of starts.

 

[Dbrownss]

uh...according to what? he's played 4 games since returning, had one bad period in which the entire team looked bad, and even with that bad period(3 goals on 10 shots) has compiled a 2.40 GAA and .921 save percentage. he passes the eye test and the stats test.

to answer the isles fan, Elliott has a 1.95 GAA and .928 save percentage on the season, Allen has a 2.69 GAA and .901 save percentage. Elliott is unquestionably the starter and Allen the backup. Allen will get some games, but with Elliott's time off during his injury and another week long layoff during the all star break, Elliott will be more than well rested and will get the lion's share of starts.

I think he meant the goals Elliott let in were pretty meh. I think he should of had the Skinner goal...but the other 2 weren't on him

 

[Mike Liut]

Allen has a higher ceiling than Elliott, he's just not ready mentally to take the job and run. A 70-30 split will be fine, unless one falters. Those several games when Allen was starting, the team played like they did in the first period with Elliott Saturday night. No goalie is going to succeed when they play like that.

 

[SneakerPimp82]

I think he meant the goals Elliott let in were pretty meh. I think he should of had the Skinner goal...but the other 2 weren't on him

Potsos said since returning from injury, not just in the Carolina game. Obviously Elliott could've played a couple of those goals against the Canes a bit better.

 

[STLBloosiers]

so funny how our fan base works. Two weeks ago it was Allen is a mess and how we can't wait for Ells to be back. Like Dbrownss said 1 bad goal in the Canes game big deal people. Allen hasn't been all that great when he was the "guy" when Ells was out. So lets calm down and pick a guy instead of flipping flopping game by game

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

so funny how our fan base works. Two weeks ago it was Allen is a mess and how we can't wait for Ells to be back. Like Dbrownss said 1 bad goal in the Canes game big deal people. Allen hasn't been all that great when he was the "guy" when Ells was out. So lets calm down and pick a guy instead of flipping flopping game by game

You're forgetting about #Brodeur and psychology, man. If it were as simple as a numbers game, you would be able to accurately assess who is a better goalie. Soft goals only happen when players are psychological inept.

All goalies except other teams' starters are backups because reasons. The only goalie that is ever truly our starter is the goalie that is sitting on the bench because they have superior GAA every night they don't play, AND they don't let in any softies. I swear, that one guy on our bench never does/would hypothetically never have let in as many softies as that other guy not on the bench.

 

[NORiculous]

I've been wondering if it was actually Brodeur that was, one way or another, making Allen nervous and get into that funk he was in!?!

 

[Sutter Brother]

Goaltending is the underlying issue with Blues playoff success

Brian Elliott admitted it was tough for him to finish the season on the bench.
"It's not easy when you play all year and then you're just sitting on the bench and you don't really feel like you can make a difference," he said. "It's always tough for anybody when you're on the outside looking in." He added that the situation was out of his control, so it's not worth dwelling on and he'll be ready next season when he gets his chance to play. Elliott is projected to compete with Jake Allen for starts in 2015-16.

The search for a true #1 goaltender for the Blues has been going on 10 + years now. Last I checked only teams with a true #1 are getting into the Cup finals these days. The time is now to get it done while the core is still together. Some GM's say that this is a two goalie league now (Treliving) but the facts are facts. Hitch even admits that he is "no goalie expert" or something to that effect; so why re-up him then? - I think the Miller experiment was the right idea that just didn't work out; doesn't mean it won't work the next time. Hopefully Brodeur will identify this endemic problem for what it is and fix it fast.

 

[Dbrownss]

After watching Crawford get blown up, let in terrible goals..then turn into a wall at times. The Blues just need to stick with Elliott/Allen. If they have to battle fine. Let them know that day 1...which they kinda have. You can make it as simple as guy with the best stats plays the POs

 

[Sutter Brother]

Hitchcock, who played Allen in four of the final six regular-season games, seemed to hedge on the fact that Elliott's done well against Minnesota in his career even though Allen has had the hot hand lately
Elliott finished 26-14-3 with a 2.26 GAA and .917 save percentage with five shutouts on the season; Allen was 22-7-4 with a 2.28 GAA, .913 save percentage and four shutouts.

When asked what would go into his final decision, Hitchcock had a quip ready: "I don't know; I'll flip a coin the next couple days," he said. "This is a new experience for Jake, so we've got a veteran guy who's had a good experience and a young guy who's really emerging. I've got the best of both worlds"

Does that sound like someone who is qualified to make determinations on Goalie starts? The situation became a situation because he let it happen that way. Elliot should have been "the Guy" and even Hitch's remarks allude to that. I think Allen can be good one day but throwing a young goalie like him when he's not ready is how you get to where we are today. Now is not the time for guessing games which is why it is time to fix the goalie situation once and for all. Do it Armstrong

 

[PiggySmalls]

After a lengthy conversation with a buddy of mine, he brought up a good point about Allen. Figured putting it here would be best.

When you look at Allen's streakiness it is remarkably similar to Marc Andre-Fluery early in his career. Both show/showed stretches of elite play followed by a mental collapse and very poor play. MAF only recently has shown to handle the load of the season. So my question is do you all think the Blues will extend the same patience with Allen as the Penguins have with MAF.

*I understand MAF has a cup win, but you can argue that the lineup in front of him was a huge factor.

 

[Celtic Note]

After a lengthy conversation with a buddy of mine, he brought up a good point about Allen. Figured putting it here would be best.

When you look at Allen's streakiness it is remarkably similar to Marc Andre-Fluery early in his career. Both show/showed stretches of elite play followed by a mental collapse and very poor play. MAF only recently has shown to handle the load of the season. So my question is do you all think the Blues will extend the same patience with Allen as the Penguins have with MAF.

*I understand MAF has a cup win, but you can argue that the lineup in front of him was a huge factor.

Most goalies take time to iron out their deficiencies and almost all of them still deal with streakiness.

 

[Borderbluesfan]

As long as Allen is playing well, you go with him. If he starts having a streak of several games where he isn't playing well, then you give him a rest and let him reset. Sometimes goalies just lose mental focus or even just show mental fatigue at times. You give them a few games off to refocus, then you bring them back and let them get their head back in the game. I say ride the hot hand against the top teams, with rests against weaker teams until the goalie shows that he needs some rest.

 

[Majorityof1]

I'm starting to wonder if maybe Allen would be a much better goalie on a different team. We know that some goalies cannot do well on this team (e.g. Miller). They need high shot counts to stay loose. Is it a coincidence that Allen's best game he faced 40+ shots? Maybe the bone-head goals he lets in are from lapses in concentration in lower shot count games. I'll need to pay more attention going forward if his mental mistakes come in games where we dominate possession, or after long stretches of no shots against. Maybe by activating our D more, taking more chances, we will give up more shots, and allow Allen to stay in the zone.

I don't know. I am just musing outloud on this one. It is not something I have thought about much before. But Jake's athleticism and solid play in the game against Nashville got me thinking he may be more of a Miller type who needs to be peppered to stay in it.

 

[Dbrownss]

I don't think if I'd make that connection. That Nashville game seems like an outlier with Shots against. I really think he's just like Quick...he's either going to blow us away with crazy saves or blow us away with Wtf are you doing... I've already noticed the defense covering up his over aggressive mistakes and that's fine because it's a team game.

I've already got a good bit of confidence from Allen, he let in the typical stinkers against LA and bounced right back and shook them off. That's what I want to see.

Edit: although we do have the defense that can run and gun, so if it works...whatever just win hockey games

 

[Borderbluesfan]

I don't think if I'd make that connection. That Nashville game seems like an outlier with Shots against. I really think he's just like Quick...he's either going to blow us away with crazy saves or blow us away with Wtf are you doing... I've already noticed the defense covering up his over aggressive mistakes and that's fine because it's a team game.

I've already got a good bit of confidence from Allen, he let in the typical stinkers against LA and bounced right back and shook them off. That's what I want to see.

Edit: although we do have the defense that can run and gun, so if it works...whatever just win hockey games

Watching Quick in games this year, if I didn't know his past playoff history, I wouldn't even say he is an elite goalie. He has looked at times like he doesn't even belong in the NHL in some of his games at times. LA was playing bad in those games, but Quick wasn't looking elite.

 

[BlueDream]

No, he wouldn't. You're acting like Allen has only started to face struggles with the Blues. He's been the same goalie his entire career and has had the same knocks on him going back to Junior, that he's not very consistent and has struggled in high pressure situations.

The Miller thing was largely a cop out in search of a reason for why he didn't perform well here. There might be some truth to the fact that you get a little cold, but there are good goalies out there who don't face an avalanche of shots against (Rinne, Lundqvist). If you're good, you'll do your job.

 

[Dbrownss]

Watching Quick in games this year, if I didn't know his past playoff history, I wouldn't even say he is an elite goalie. He has looked at times like he doesn't even belong in the NHL in some of his games at times. LA was playing bad in those games, but Quick wasn't looking elite.

You know that what I'm referring to. Quick had a unique ability to flop around the crease like a damn fish getting tazzed and stop every damn shot for every angle.

 

[Majorityof1]

No, he wouldn't. You're acting like Allen has only started to face struggles with the Blues. He's been the same goalie his entire career and has had the same knocks on him going back to Junior, that he's not very consistent and has struggled in high pressure situations.

The Miller thing was largely a cop out in search of a reason for why he didn't perform well here. There might be some truth to the fact that you get a little cold, but there are good goalies out there who don't face an avalanche of shots against (Rinne, Lundqvist). If you're good, you'll do your job.

You may be right about Allen. I was just musing out loud. I totally disagree that low-shot count environment is just an excuse though. Athletic, reflex-dependent goaies tend to do better in high shot-count environments because it keeps them loose, on their game and in the zone. More cererberal and position based goalies with great concentration can thrive in low shot count environments. And this is not just a theory that came up to explain Miller. It was around long before hand and people predicted it before the trade ever went through.

 

[Borderbluesfan]

You know that what I'm referring to. Quick had a unique ability to flop around the crease like a damn fish getting tazzed and stop every damn shot for every angle.

Yeah, I know what you mean. At times, Allen flops around and looks very athletic and good stopping shots that he probably shouldn't. At other times, he flops around and gets out of position and gives up shots he shouldn't; not as bad this year as last. That is what I have seen from Quick in a few games that I have seen with LA this year.

 

[Alklha]

You may be right about Allen. I was just musing out loud. I totally disagree that low-shot count environment is just an excuse though. Athletic, reflex-dependent goaies tend to do better in high shot-count environments because it keeps them loose, on their game and in the zone. More cererberal and position based goalies with great concentration can thrive in low shot count environments. And this is not just a theory that came up to explain Miller. It was around long before hand and people predicted it before the trade ever went through.

The issue with Miller was that Armstrong waited long into the season to acquire a goalie with a style that the coaching staff weren't keen on. As shown by their desperate attempts to change his style of play in the last couple of months of the season.

When you're on the Sabres and your D is letting forwards free looks at goal, then coming all the way out to close angles is a pretty good idea. When you're on the Blues and the D is playing shot suppression, then a forwards mentality changes and you're much more likely to get burned at the back door.

Given a full season, the shot total difference wouldn't be an issue for Miller, it was making the style adjustments mid-season.