Jaime Drysdale

19 for president

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Of course! I was always interested in how much goalies really did hamper a team's ability to build the rest of the core. And league wide, the numbers between your average goalie tandems and elite goalie tandems comes out to around that $3-4 million mark.

I think there's some incredible contract values with goalies, such as Ben Bishop, Connor Hellebuyck, and Semyon Varlamov. When people talk about getting an above average guy without breaking the bank, I think these are the types of names they think of. Grabbing a guy like that in the $5-6 range is a massive get. But I can really only find a handful of these guys. They are less common than one might think. So if you do end up with consistent, great goaltending - it's worth paying the extra if you can spare it.

It's important to note that it's absolutely vital if you're going to pay a goalie $10 million that it is someone truly elite like Price, Lundqvist, or Vasilevskiy. I was never a big fan of the Bob contract, although I do believe he will bounce back ultimately.

So in conclusion, if you can snag a Connor Hellebuyck for $6 million, that's damn great. But if you find yourself with an elite guy, don't go hunting for Hellebuyck to save a few million bucks, because it could be another decade or more before you find anyone as good.

It's an interesting argument. At the same time I think one can argue that the only times in the past 15 years that one could argue a top 3 goalie won the cup is maybe Quick and Thomas. If TB wins this year I think you could add Vasilevskiy to that list. I think the happy spot is somewhere in the top 10-15. If you want to go the goalie route I think you can but you have to build like Boston did. If you don't support the elite goalie with an elite dman or two you get Luongo, Price, and Lundqvist.
 

Tetsuo

Boss of a Pile of Rubble
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It's an interesting argument. At the same time I think one can argue that the only times in the past 15 years that one could argue a top 3 goalie won the cup is maybe Quick and Thomas. If TB wins this year I think you could add Vasilevskiy to that list. I think the happy spot is somewhere in the top 10-15. If you want to go the goalie route I think you can but you have to build like Boston did. If you don't support the elite goalie with an elite dman or two you get Luongo, Price, and Lundqvist.
By that logic we also shouldn't draft a potential McDavid type player because he's expensive and hasn't won anything. Or Draisaitl, or Pasternak or Kucherov or... I just think using team accomplishments to measure the value of players is oftentimes misleading in a game where there is both a high degree of luck and a relatively large amount of players that see ice-time. Not sure if I buy this logic.

The real key is to have a team that is deep. Not every player, even generational talents, is going to be great every single day, so having enough quality players, at every position, makes all the difference down the stretch. You win when you have wily vets or energetic youth make heads up plays down the stretch more than the other team.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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It's an interesting argument. At the same time I think one can argue that the only times in the past 15 years that one could argue a top 3 goalie won the cup is maybe Quick and Thomas. If TB wins this year I think you could add Vasilevskiy to that list. I think the happy spot is somewhere in the top 10-15. If you want to go the goalie route I think you can but you have to build like Boston did. If you don't support the elite goalie with an elite dman or two you get Luongo, Price, and Lundqvist.

Lundqvist dragged his team to a Cup finals 2014. And Luongo went to the Cup finals in 2011. So they didn't win that year, but I'm still counting that as being a core piece on a Cup caliber team.

If we fan out the list to Vezina trophy winners, Holtby helped secure his team the Cup within two seasons of his award.

I guess if we're limiting it to 1 goalie per year, yeah, sample sizes are going to look very small. But these top goalies are pushing their teams deep into the playoffs. And I think we're about to see a new era with Vasilevskiy where everyone is chasing someone like him to anchor their team.
 

AD1066

Registered User
Sep 30, 2011
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By that logic we also shouldn't draft a potential McDavid type player because he's expensive and hasn't won anything. Or Draisaitl, or Pasternak or Kucherov or... I just think using team accomplishments to measure the value of players is oftentimes misleading in a game where there is both a high degree of luck and a relatively large amount of players that see ice-time. Not sure if I buy this logic.

The real key is to have a team that is deep. Not every player, even generational talents, is going to be great every single day, so having enough quality players, at every position, makes all the difference down the stretch. You win when you have wily vets or energetic youth make heads up plays down the stretch more than the other team.

My point wasn't that a team should never pay for elite talent. Only that guys like Price, Lundqvist, and Rinne have been the cornerstones of their respective franchises and haven't won a Cup, while as a Wings fan it's easy to bring to mind someone like Osgood, who merely needed to be good enough to support the elite skaters in front of him. Same goes for Crawford in Chicago. Having an elite goalie isn't a bad thing by any means, but I'll take the few elite skaters / average goalie combination every time over the elite goalie / mostly average skaters model we've seen in Montreal, New York, and Nashville.

I know this is all hypothetical and the dichotomy is never that simple, just my two cents. Swinging for the fences on a goaltender at #4, while we're still without elite forward talent, has me wary about going down a similar path to the teams above.
 

AD1066

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Also, to steer this conversation back to Drysdale. Not sure how solid DobberProspects is, but saw these rankings for 2021 in the prospects forum:

DobberProspects’ Preliminary 2021 NHL Draft Rankings

Four defensemen in the top ten, three of whom are left-handed shots, if Drysdale as a RHD seems redundant this year. We'd have a pretty good chance I think at Luke Hughes, after missing on his brother.

"He is the biggest of the Hughes brothers as well, already standing 6’0″ at 16 years old. He is also one of the youngest players for the 2021 draft, just six days away from being eligible for the 2022 draft. His game still has a lot of rawness to it but the potential is there. He out produced Quinn in their U17 year with the NTDP in fewer games played. There is some concern about his play in his own end but the potential and tools are all there for the youngest Hughes brother to be the best."
 

deca guard

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Jun 22, 2019
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It's an interesting argument. At the same time I think one can argue that the only times in the past 15 years that one could argue a top 3 goalie won the cup is maybe Quick and Thomas. If TB wins this year I think you could add Vasilevskiy to that list. I think the happy spot is somewhere in the top 10-15. If you want to go the goalie route I think you can but you have to build like Boston did. If you don't support the elite goalie with an elite dman or two you get Luongo, Price, and Lundqvist.
exactly . elite dmen are more important , the most important , than elite goalies . next are puck carrying play making centers .
 

Tetsuo

Boss of a Pile of Rubble
Apr 11, 2018
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My point wasn't that a team should never pay for elite talent. Only that guys like Price, Lundqvist, and Rinne have been the cornerstones of their respective franchises and haven't won a Cup, while as a Wings fan it's easy to bring to mind someone like Osgood, who merely needed to be good enough to support the elite skaters in front of him. Same goes for Crawford in Chicago. Having an elite goalie isn't a bad thing by any means, but I'll take the few elite skaters / average goalie combination every time over the elite goalie / mostly average skaters model we've seen in Montreal, New York, and Nashville.

I know this is all hypothetical and the dichotomy is never that simple, just my two cents. Swinging for the fences on a goaltender at #4, while we're still without elite forward talent, has me wary about going down a similar path to the teams above.
I understand the concern and its why I don't have the cajones to pick Askarov at 4. That said, I don't think that we are locked out of getting elite talent at forward if we take Askarov this year, we are still going to be a bottom three team for at least the next one to two seasons.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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I understand the concern and its why I don't have the cajones to pick Askarov at 4. That said, I don't think that we are locked out of getting elite talent at forward if we take Askarov this year, we are still going to be a bottom three team for at least the next one to two seasons.

Never underestimate the size of my cajones.
 

FabricDetails

I know enough to know I know nothing
Mar 30, 2009
7,921
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You need to get the rights to that ASAP.

A dating app where people pick each other based off of whatever nerdy, "weird", specific topics they consider as passions.

"The Universe"
"Aliens"
"The different types of forks"

Get some advertising revenue after a year or two and before you know it, you're buying out bi-partisanship in DC and dodging taxes. It's the American dream, haha.
 

Go Wings

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Sep 26, 2009
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Also, to steer this conversation back to Drysdale. Not sure how solid DobberProspects is, but saw these rankings for 2021 in the prospects forum:

DobberProspects’ Preliminary 2021 NHL Draft Rankings

Four defensemen in the top ten, three of whom are left-handed shots, if Drysdale as a RHD seems redundant this year. We'd have a pretty good chance I think at Luke Hughes, after missing on his brother.

"He is the biggest of the Hughes brothers as well, already standing 6’0″ at 16 years old. He is also one of the youngest players for the 2021 draft, just six days away from being eligible for the 2022 draft. His game still has a lot of rawness to it but the potential is there. He out produced Quinn in their U17 year with the NTDP in fewer games played. There is some concern about his play in his own end but the potential and tools are all there for the youngest Hughes brother to be the best."

Owen Power is better I would much rather have him. Imagine 6'5 Power paired with 6'4 Seider.
 

AD1066

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Sep 30, 2011
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Owen Power is better I would much rather have him. Imagine 6'5 Power paired with 6'4 Seider.

Either way seems like we'll likely be picking top 5 again and have a choice of some quality defensemen next year, assuming we go with Perfetti or Raymond this year.
 
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Go Wings

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Sep 26, 2009
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Either way seems like we'll likely be picking top 5 again and have a choice of some quality defensemen next year, assuming we go with Perfetti or Raymond this year.

Well if take Sanderson and Power our defense could look like this someday:

Power/Seider
Sanderson/Hronek
McIsaac/ Lindstrom

From the worst defense to one of the best if everyone develops as planned.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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Power/Seider
Sanderson/Hronek
McIsaac/ Lindstrom

From the worst defense to one of the best if everyone develops as planned.

I'm not calling you out specifically, but it's a pet peeve of mine when people post projections of lineups 3 to 4 years out made entirely of drafted players.

Is there a single NHL defensive unit that is comprised entirely of players drafted by that team?
 
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The Zermanator

In Yzerman We Trust
Jan 21, 2013
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Well if take Sanderson and Power our defense could look like this someday:

Power/Seider
Sanderson/Hronek
McIsaac/ Lindstrom

From the worst defense to one of the best if everyone develops as planned.

When has that ever happened?
 

Go Wings

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Sep 26, 2009
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Chatham, ON
I'm not calling you out specifically, but it's a pet peeve of mine when people post projections of lineups 3 to 4 years out made entirely of drafted players.

Is there a single NHL defensive unit that is comprised entirely of players drafted by that team?

I know I am just having fun dreaming.

To answer your question no I don't think so. Neither will Detroit if we get Krug.
 

MBH

Players Play
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The Nashville defense developed as planned for years.
Here's the 11-12 preds
(Ranked by points)
Weber - drafted
Suter - Drafted
Klein - Drafted
Josi - Drafted
Boullion - No
Ellis - Drafted
Blum - Drafted
Hillen - No
---
That's pretty close


Here's the Preds today
Josi - yes
Ellis - yes
Ekholm- yes
Fabbro - yes
Hamhuis - yes
Tinordi- no
Weber- no
Irwin - no
---
So anyone that played 45 games or more? Drafted by Nashville.
 
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Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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Jun 23, 2018
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Here's the 11-12 preds
(Ranked by points)
Weber - drafted
Suter - Drafted
Klein - Drafted
Josi - Drafted
Boullion - No
Ellis - Drafted
Blum - Drafted
Hillen - No
---
That's pretty close


Here's the Preds today
Josi - yes
Ellis - yes
Ekholm- yes
Fabbro - yes
Hamhuis - yes
Tinordi- no
Weber- no
Irwin - no
---
So anyone that played 45 games or more? Drafted by Nashville.
Didn't Yzerman hire the NSH scout? (that was crucial in those picks)
 

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