WHen Toe was playing I knew one day guys like you would point to his stats and trophies.
Dude he had the easiset career of any athlete in history...he was protected by guys on and off the ice; the oilers were in the easiest division in league history and waltzed to the finals every year playing AHL level teams. The first time they won the cup they played the islanders who had been hammered by the habs...Oilers had a 9 day layoff - think that didnt help? I could go on....
I dont care how many goals he scored as a 10 year old, every nhler forward scored in bunches as a kid. Born in Jan he was the biggest kid on the ice until he was 15.
EVer see a slashing call against him?
I just know you were born yesterday...I dont hate a guy who I have in my top 20...only fanatics would think that
I could list twenty more underrated players, but, I'll bite that Frank Foyston is just too far off the map to expect people to respect.
LOL............Frank who?
I guess you're right about the under-rated thing.
I rank Gretzky as the 3rd best NHL forward.
The proof is in the fact that once Gretzky left Edmonton, his level of dominance greatly diminished -- IMO its b/c he was no longer being 'protected' to the extent he was with the Oilers.
He was still winning scoring titles, but nothing like the 50+ point seperations he used to have over the next highest scorers. Also, Gretzky was only 27 when he left so he was still EASILY in his prime.
Compare Lemieux to a post-Edm Gretzky and its an easy advantage to Lemieux......that even takes into account comparing them at the same age. In addition, Lemieux was like 1000x more injured.
I also take Howe over Gretzky because, in addition to his dominance and longevity, Howe fought his own battles. Imagine Gordie's (or Lemieux's) dominance if nobody ever layed a finger on them.
Jagr is great. But him never winning a cup without Lemieux is a black mark for sure. He's no Bobby Orr.
LOL............Frank who?
I guess you're right about the under-rated thing.
Except that Lemieux was the star and Conn Smythe winner of both cups. Jagr was a support player.Lemieux never won a cup without Jagr either.
I have nothing to add, I just keep checking to see if the Grtezky/Stefan LeBeau thread has started yet.
I rank Gretzky as the 3rd best NHL forward.
The proof is in the fact that once Gretzky left Edmonton, his level of dominance greatly diminished -- IMO its b/c he was no longer being 'protected' to the extent he was with the Oilers.
He was still winning scoring titles, but nothing like the 50+ point seperations he used to have over the next highest scorers. Also, Gretzky was only 27 when he left so he was still EASILY in his prime.
Compare Lemieux to a post-Edm Gretzky and its an easy advantage to Lemieux......that even takes into account comparing them at the same age. In addition, Lemieux was like 1000x more injured.
I also take Howe over Gretzky because, in addition to his dominance and longevity, Howe fought his own battles. Imagine Gordie's (or Lemieux's) dominance if nobody ever layed a finger on them.
I have nothing to add, I just keep checking to see if the Grtezky/Stefan LeBeau thread has started yet.
WHen Toe was playing I knew one day guys like you would point to his stats and trophies.
Dude he had the easiset career of any athlete in history...he was protected by guys on and off the ice; the oilers were in the easiest division in league history and waltzed to the finals every year playing AHL level teams. The first time they won the cup they played the islanders who had been hammered by the habs...Oilers had a 9 day layoff - think that didnt help? I could go on....
I dont care how many goals he scored as a 10 year old, every nhler forward scored in bunches as a kid. Born in Jan he was the biggest kid on the ice until he was 15.
EVer see a slashing call against him?
I just know you were born yesterday...I dont hate a guy who I have in my top 20...only fanatics would think that
I rank Gretzky as the 3rd best NHL forward.
The proof is in the fact that once Gretzky left Edmonton, his level of dominance greatly diminished -- IMO its b/c he was no longer being 'protected' to the extent he was with the Oilers.
He was still winning scoring titles, but nothing like the 50+ point seperations he used to have over the next highest scorers. Also, Gretzky was only 27 when he left so he was still EASILY in his prime.
Compare Lemieux to a post-Edm Gretzky and its an easy advantage to Lemieux......that even takes into account comparing them at the same age. In addition, Lemieux was like 1000x more injured.
I also take Howe over Gretzky because, in addition to his dominance and longevity, Howe fought his own battles. Imagine Gordie's (or Lemieux's) dominance if nobody ever layed a finger on them.
Jagr is one of the top-5 forwards of all-time IMHO.
Orr is the best player of all-time. PERIOD.
It's Orr for me.
I lived outside of Boston in the late 60's, 70's and 80's, i would say I saw Orr play about 400 games if you include the games I saw on TV.
I have been living in Pittsburgh for a while, and I sawe quite a few games from Jagr when he was at his best.
IMHO Orr is quite a bit better than Jagr, Jagr is no slouch, he just isn't in the same class as Orr. Only Gretzky and Lemiuex are. I must have seen 300 games Jagr played, there is no comparison.
Jagr is a great player and I don't want to sound like I am saying he is not, I just put him in a class of player with the likes of Guy LaFluer, Maurice Richard, Mike Bossy, Steve Yzerman, Bobby Hull, every single one a hall of famer, just like Jagr.
Fair enough, so you saw the Rocket play?
Putting Lafleur in the same class as an Izzerman or one dimensional Bossy weakens your analysis.
Gretzky did become less dominant after he left Edmonton but of course was still very, very Great in LA and still winning scoring titles.
But the 1993 playoffs showed Gretzky could still be the best player on the planet and bring his play to a level of domination that only he and few others have ever been able to do.
The whole "protected" thing with Gretzky is overrated. Gretzky was protected for sure but he was the smartest player ever and rarely put himself in positions he could be physically dominated. His hockey smarts are the reason he didn't get hit that often. People tried to lay him out they just never could.
Fair enough. He should be in a class with Serge Savard and Andy Capp, non?
Thank you for your gaittention but I'm not interested. perhps you can contact the federation. and please no more private emails form you or yoru mom. Thank you.
Sit on my couch Chooch ? Let's talk, let's get to the bottom of this. You worshipped Guy Lafleur as a youngster. I don't blame you, he was a great player. I alos enjoyed watching him from his first game when they played him at C beteen Yvan and Frank, until the bitter end. He played with a flair like no other.Fair enough, so you saw the Rocket play?
Putting Lafleur in the same class as an Izzerman or one dimensional Bossy weakens your analysis.
Good, I did a eulogy for my friend Jim today and I'm starting on a cookbook for CG12.Shizzle that, mcphee. BTW, how's the poutine thing working out?
Good, I did a eulogy for my friend Jim today and I'm starting on a cookbook for CG12.
Jim was 86, he didn't get cheated. I hadn't seen him in years, just remembered having to buy him a thesaurus to get him to quit using the C word in the office.Sorry to hear about your friend. Will the cookbook have a poutine recipe? Donairs and poutine actually go together. I met a HF member in Edmonton before game six and was amazed to watch him scarf a super donair AND a poutine.
Sit on my couch Chooch ? Let's talk, let's get to the bottom of this. You worshipped Guy Lafleur as a youngster. I don't blame you, he was a great player. I alos enjoyed watching him from his first game when they played him at C beteen Yvan and Frank, until the bitter end. He played with a flair like no other.
So, you feel strongly about him. Strongly enough that others who are fans of other players, often players who they were privileged to grow up watching, must be ridiculed. If someone loved Yzerman, you must call him Izzerman or decide Bossy, the great pure scorer, must be dismissed as one dimensional. Never mind the Isles season ticket holders who saw him develop from the skinny kid up from the Laval Nationals to a tremendous winger playing on a historic line. Yes, you must attack them because in being a fan of these players, they are somehow disrespecting Guy.
Now, it's getting to be tough sledding. Is it a feeling of being faithful to Lafleur's legacy, or more a sad need to be right ?
You seem resentful of McSorley and Semenko believing that they should devote themselves to making Wayne Gretzky's time on the ice as pleasant as possible. Imagine the 2 of them spending time hopelessly devoted to someone else. You know, like you and Guy.
The way I see it, admittedly, a disjointed and unsupportable view, Bobby Orr played a game different than the others on the ice. Not for long enough, but still, no one was like him. Mario,like Orr, could separate himself from everyone else, his combination of skill and size made him close to ustoppable. Gretzky couldn't match the skill for skill attributes that the others did,but with his incredible vision and understanding of the game, he accomplished more than either. The game is decided by the total of goals and no one created or scored more. You could easily choose any of those 3 as your greatest and wouldn't be wrong. Jagr's another wonderful player. You see him weave around checkers,power around a d man, and tuck the puck into an open side. Gretzky couldn't make that play, never. He would find a way though, and find it more often.
Yes, I know, western conference, weak, no checking, whooping it up after an empty net goal, bodyguards, maximizing your net worth by trading on the good name you've made for yourself, the cad, and today's latest, the born in January thing, [planned parenthood I'm sure, Walter you genetic engineeer you]
You don't really believe this stuff do you ? It's tired schtick isn't it ? What's your motivation ? Just curious, my wife's watching Ghost Whisperer and I had nothing else to do.