TheGuiminator
I’ll be damned King, I’ll be damned
- Oct 23, 2018
- 1,971
- 1,654
If Crosby didn’t miss most of his prime, this wouldn’t even be a debate, cause Sid would’ve match Jagr’s individual awards, so everything would be in Sid’s favor.
Being the best player, doesn't make you "the guy".
Crosby got hurt in the 2nd period of game 7 against a far superior Wings team. Any chance the Pens hang onto that 1-0 lead when he goes down, if he was "the guy"? Sure, Crosby/Malkin was a coin flip, but again, none of this, "the guy" nonsense.
Heck, Crosby literally won the Smythes because there was no "one guy" in either 2016 or 2017. I'm confident that the Pens weren't losing in 2016, no matter what happened. That entire team caught fire when Geno went down towards the end of the regular season and HBK was created.
There's an argument to be made for 2017. Crosby was absolutely the best skater. But 3 of the 4 wins against CBJ don't happen without Fleury. He stood on his head. And games 1 and 2 of the SCF aren't won without Murray. Those are just the games that stand out in my memory. I know there were also a few against the Caps and Sens that we had no business winning without the hot goaltender. If Fleury doesn't get yanked in the Sens series, he would have won the Smythe, without a doubt.
That wasn't prime or near prime Francis that he had went Lemieux retired fyi
Heck, Crosby literally won the Smythes because there was no "one guy" in either 2016 or 2017. I'm confident that the Pens weren't losing in 2016, no matter what happened. That entire team caught fire when Geno went down towards the end of the regular season and HBK was created..
Spoken like somebody who looked at the shot totals and didn’t actually watch any of those games. That the Penguins were lucky to beat Columbus is such BS. Just because a team takes 25+ shots from above the circles doesn’t mean they deserve to win the game. Similarly hilarious is the idea that the Wings of 09, with their leaking goaltending, poor defense below Lidstrom’s pairing, and injured Datsyuk were far superior. Game isn’t played on the roster card.
Crosby lead the playoffs in ppg, got the hard matchups every time, dealt with coming back from a concussion to be the best player in the finals playing against Subban-Ekholm almost every shift.
Exactly. People ***** about Jagr’s squads. Well, a portion of that WAS Jagr.
He got everything he wanted and still didn’t deliver until Lemieux came back.
Easy to score scoring titles when the only expectation is for you yourself to score.
He’s a top 20 player all time, but certain fans want to make it like he is top ten or something. Not a chance given his post season performances.
Rk | Name | Born | Pos | GP | G | A | P | PIM | +/- | PPG | SHG | GWG | G/GP | A/GP | P/GP | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 |
| Wayne Gretzky | 1961 | F | 208 | 122 | 260 | 382 | 66 | 86 | 34 | 11 | 24 | 0.587 | 1.250 | 1.837 |
2 | Mark Messier | 1961 | F | 236 | 109 | 186 | 295 | 244 | 42 | 24 | 14 | 12 | 0.462 | 0.788 | 1.250 | |
3 | Jari Kurri | 1960 | F | 200 | 106 | 127 | 233 | 123 | 88 | 25 | 10 | 14 | 0.530 | 0.635 | 1.165 | |
4 | Glenn Anderson | 1960 | F | 225 | 93 | 121 | 214 | 442 | 67 | 22 | 1 | 17 | 0.413 | 0.538 | 0.951 | |
5 | Jaromír Jágr | 1972 | F | 208 | 78 | 123 | 201 | 163 | 30 | 24 | 2 | 16 | 0.375 | 0.591 | 0.966 |
Playoff all time leaders:
Notice: EDMONTON, EDMONTON, EDMONTON, EDMONTON DYNASTY - then Jaromir.
Give Jagr some credit, his post season performances were very good, if Jagr would have played in the high scoring era with teamates like Gretzkys, Jagr would be 2nd easily.
I love both Jagr and Crosby, I just think Jagr is very underrated in general.
I also have no doubts that Jagrs had been much more respected and more highly ranked, if he only had been born in Canada.....
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Rk Name Born Pos GP G A P PIM +/- PPG SHG GWG G/GP A/GP P/GP 1 Wayne Gretzky 1961 F 208 122 260 382 66 86 34 11 24 0.587 1.250 1.837 2 Mark Messier 1961 F 236 109 186 295 244 42 24 14 12 0.462 0.788 1.250 3 Jari Kurri 1960 F 200 106 127 233 123 88 25 10 14 0.530 0.635 1.165 4 Glenn Anderson 1960 F 225 93 121 214 442 67 22 1 17 0.413 0.538 0.951 5 Jaromír Jágr 1972 F 208 78 123 201 163 30 24 2 16 0.375 0.591 0.966
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
You do realize Sid is 16 points off Jags in nearly 50 less games.
Even if you only take Jagr's time in Pittsburgh, Crosby is still clearly ahead in terms of playoff performance.You do realize that Jagrs totals include MANY playoffs as an old man, that screws Jagrs PPG.
But from me, this was not a dig at Crosby at all, I hold him very highly. I wanted Jagr to get respect for his playoff stats, I did not compare Jagr to Crosby, that was not my purpose at all.
I forgot that Francis only played on season on the Penguins, despite coming over in a trade in 1990 and winning two Cups here.
It's also easy to forget that Jagr's left wing was the best left wing in the NHL at the time until his face caved in.
AND, when Jagr lost that help and was playing with scrubs, the 2nd line had guys like Kovalev, Lang, and Straka, so a 'no support behind' argument doesn't entirely jibe.
That said, Jagr's individual regular season trophy case notwithstanding, I'm in the Crosby camp. 3 cups as lead dog.
Yeah, I don't really understand it, myself. One might even argue that even during the KLS years, that line alone was better than the entirety of the Pens' wing situation from 2008-until roughly 2016.
The Crosby era cups didn't have ANY top 6 wings commensurate with the Jagr era, with better results to show for it.
There's a good case to be made for Jagr as one of the top 10 RWs of all time, but 2nd best Pen? Crosby and not even close, IMO.
Someone said Jagr versus Geno would've been the better comparison.
In that one, I still think Geno wins. Jagr has the individual trophy case, but Geno did more to help Sid win cups than Jagr ever did to help Mario.
I didn't see that, but it is a much more interesting question, and one that has some pretty decent counterarguments in favor of Jagr.
Yep.
As Robin to Batman (Sid for Geno, Mario for Jagr), Malkin was the better Penguin. Not even close.
As 'the man', Jagr was the better Penguin. Not even close. ALTHOUGH, Geno only had 1 season where he could be 'the man' and performed every bit as well in that more limited sample size than Jagr did as 'the man'.
But, yes, it's a hell of a question.
I know the majority of people will vote for Sid because of how Jagr left here, but Jagr would skate circles around Sid in his prime. Jags routinely made jaw-dropping plays. You couldn’t knock Jagr off the puck and he was a much bigger player.
Even though Jags is a winger, I’d take him easily over Sid.