Jagr or Crosby, Pens Career

[dr robbie]

I dont know how anyone could still say Jagr. It was close for a bit, but it's been clearly Crosby for at least the last 3 years. And I'm talking careers overall. If you're only talking about time as a Pen, it's even more lopsided.

 

[Sideline]

Two or three years ago it was probably JJ. Sid has just been money so far in the second half of his career though. Crazy to think that with Geno it might mean Jagr isn't even top 3 for the franchise.

Sid still needs to play another good 6 or 7 years to pass Jagr's all team/league achievements.

 

[ChaosAgent]

So I was like 1-2 years old when the Penguins won their first 2 Cups - how key was Jagr in them? Like if you ranked the team's players, obviously Mario was 1st but then where was 19-20 year old Jagr after that?

Because for the guy's Pens career, his best years where he was a top 5 player coincided with the Pens coming up empty-handed. Hard to argue for that against Crosby when the Pens won 3 Cups with Crosby as Captain & Best Player.

 

[Fatty McLardy]

Close this sucker down. It's crosby and not even close. Jagr could only dream of having the character and leadership that Sid has. That's not even to mention Sid is the better player.

 

[Shady Machine]

Depends on the question here. If it's "who was the most offensively dominant player" I'd probably go with Jags although it's close. If it's "who had the better Pens career", it's pretty clearly Crosby.

 

[LOGiK]

Second best penguin?
Mario of course.

 

[Phil68]

I love Sid and all But, i'm 39 i've sen Jagr from the first time i played for the Pens. Jagr didn't really have a good team around him when Mario started to be out so frequently and retired the first time. Jagr was the sole and only reason why the Pens were competitive. Crosby has had a real good supporting cast. Crosby needs A Malkin and vice versa for the Pens to have been so good.. Jagr statistic wise, his bad years were went he came back from KHL. Jagr's utter dominance of the NHL is only topped by Mario and Gretzky, that's how really good Jagr was. Jagr's prime has a lot longer and higher level than Sid's. The NHL and people are bias to the fact how great Jagr was. Jagr is not top 10 in NHL history he is top 5 period.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I love Sid and all But, i'm 39 i've sen Jagr from the first time i played for the Pens. Jagr didn't really have a good team around him when Mario started to be out so frequently and retired the first time. Jagr was the sole and only reason why the Pens were competitive. Crosby has had a real good supporting cast. Crosby needs A Malkin and vice versa for the Pens to have been so good.. Jagr statistic wise, his bad years were went he came back from KHL. Jagr's utter dominance of the NHL is only topped by Mario and Gretzky, that's how really good Jagr was. Jagr's prime has a lot longer and higher level than Sid's. The NHL and people are bias to the fact how great Jagr was. Jagr is not top 10 in NHL history he is top 5 period.

Yeah, that Ron Francis guy was a total schlub. Total nobody.

 

[billybudd]

I think when two guys have both won multiple Ross trophies and Harts, but one has more rings and way more Conn Smythes, it's usually the Smythe guy who is considered to have the more-impressive trophy case. Maybe that's not fair, but it's what is.

 

[billybudd]

Yeah, that Ron Francis guy was a total schlub. Total nobody.

The "Jagr had no supporting cast" thing was true, but only for maybe 1 season (the year after Francis left). That season gets extrapolated into a half-decade in some peoples' memories for some reason.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Sid, because he has won more cups, been the face of the franchise for longer, and presumably will spend his entire career with Pittsburgh. Jagr's time with other squads certainly adds to his legacy and builds his considerable HOF resume, but judging purely from time as a Penguin it's Sid.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Jagr or Malkin would be a far more interesting poll.

Crosby and it isn't close for this one.

The answer would be Malkin.

As for this one. Crosby and it indeed is not close.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I just want those who voted Jagr (4) still can change their vote.

 

[Gurglesons]

The "Jagr had no supporting cast" thing was true, but only for maybe 1 season (the year after Francis left). That season gets extrapolated into a half-decade in some peoples' memories for some reason.

Yeah people forget the Straka Kovalev Lang line was better than the Jagr line for two years.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Crosby easily.

I would even be willing to put Malkin ahead of Jagr as well, assuming he's not "dying alive".

 

[billybudd]

Yeah people forget the Straka Kovalev Lang line was better than the Jagr line for two years.

Also might be a thing where two of the guys were waiver claims. I'm sure going into 1999, Straka and Lang were seen as having overachieved somewhat on the second line on account of the Jagsmobile ahead of them taking out so much air resistance. Subsequent seasons would prove this view to have been wrong, but it was widespread at the time, iirc, and could be warping memories of what the Jagr Pens were actually like in that people may remember the misconception as fact, rather than the fact as fact.

And the fact was, with the benefit of hindsight, the Jagr Pens were an oddball east/west counterattacking/PP team with plenty of guys who possessed impressive goaltender-beating weapons. Even Morozov was utterly lethal if he could get his shot off (which was rare against anyone but New Jersey).

 

[cheesedanish87]

I would of loved to of seen Jagr play in this era of hockey, he would of been such a beast.

I saw an old game a while ago when Jagr was in his prime it was amazing how much hooking holding and interference was in the game at that time.

 

[Al Smith]

I would of loved to of seen Jagr play in this era of hockey, he would of been such a beast.

I saw an old game a while ago when Jagr was in his prime it was amazing how much hooking holding and interference was in the game at that time.

The refs allowed Jagr to be hooked, held, and interfered with more than others cause his combination of strength and skill was a bit unfair. Gotta even things out a bit.

 

[kladorf2005]

This is apparently not a popular opinion according to the poll but I'd go with Jagr. 5 art Ross trophies and his prime (imo) was even better than Sids. Jumbo Joe only narrowly beat Jagr in 05-6 or Jagr would have had 6 Art Ross trophies. Jagr was incredibly dominant in his prime. So was/is Sid, but I think Jagr was the better hockey player. Not by a lot, but he was. He was an absolute freak of nature in his prime.

That said, for me it's realllly close. I just think Jagr was a little bit better a player. You can knock him for not winning Cups without Mario I guess but most of the teams Jagr was on without Mario were not deep enough to win a cup. Sid has had better support overall in his career I think.

But like I said it's super close. And I might take Sid over Jagr first if I had to draft a team and choose between young versions of either just because they're close enough as players that dealing with Jagr's attitude issues and so on might not be worth the hassle when I could have a player just about the same as him but with way better leadership.

Loved watching both. I know a lot of people here have bad memories of how Jagr left us but I never stopped liking him as a player and I'm glad I got to enjoy his prime. Actually funny story here. When I was young in the early 90's my dad and I went to Pittsburgh to catch a game. Back then players would sometimes park in the parking lot at Mellon since I guess at that point there was no underground parking lot? Either way, one time we went and who pulls up but Jagr. He pulled up in a really nice car and with that beautiful mullet lol. Unfortunately, my dad didn't have a pen on him, so I wasn't able to get Jagr's autograph. I don't think I've quite let my dad live that one down. But it was super cool to meet Jagr and that type of thing would never happen now when players can get in and out of arenas without dealing as much with fans.

I agree. This is close, but from a pure talent perspective, Jagr wins.

One of the reasons why Sid has had more success is because of the importance of their positions. Without Mario, Jagr never had the Sid/Geno combination at 1C/2C. Much harder to win cups that way. Just ask Ovi

Also just to clarify, given the choice of who to build my team around, I pick Sid 100 times out of 100.

 

[Phil68]

Yeah, that Ron Francis guy was a total schlub. Total nobody.

That wasn't prime or near prime Francis that he had went Lemieux retired fyi

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Accurate poll.

 

[Gurglesons]

I agree. This is close, but from a pure talent perspective, Jagr wins.

One of the reasons why Sid has had more success is because of the importance of their positions. Without Mario, Jagr never had the Sid/Geno combination at 1C/2C. Much harder to win cups that way. Just ask Ovi

Also just to clarify, given the choice of who to build my team around, I pick Sid 100 times out of 100.

This poll is based on who was better as a Penguin. Even then Crosby has had the better career already.

Crosby still has a five year window at minimum to add even more to his trophy case. Say he wins a Selke this year. Dude is arguably the best all around center of ALL TIME. Jagr isn’t anywhere close to the best winger of all time.

 

[Phil68]

This poll is based on who was better as a Penguin. Even then Crosby has had the better career already.

Crosby still has a five year window at minimum to add even more to his trophy case. Say he wins a Selke this year. Dude is arguably the best all around center of ALL TIME. Jagr isn’t anywhere close to the best winger of all time.

Who exactly would you consider a better winger then Jagr all time?? Who name 5 you could consider?

 

[kladorf2005]

This poll is based on who was better as a Penguin. Even then Crosby has had the better career already.

Crosby still has a five year window at minimum to add even more to his trophy case. Say he wins a Selke this year. Dude is arguably the best all around center of ALL TIME. Jagr isn’t anywhere close to the best winger of all time.

Jagr was at his best when he was a Penguin.

And I agree that Crosby has had the better career.

But prime Jagr was more talented than prime Crosby. For a 21 year period from 1980 - 2001, only 3 people won the Art Ross. Their names? Gretzky (10). Lemieux (6). Jagr (5). Gretzky passed the torch to Lemieux. Lemieux passed the torch to Jagr. And no one has dominated the league they way those 3 did for an extended period since then.

Crosby has been the best player of his generation. But aside from short stretches here and there, he hasn't been head and shoulders above everyone else the way Jagr was.

EDIT: your bolded statement makes you lose a lot of credibility in this argument. Not even close? Seriously? You sound like that Caps fan in the other thread that said Crosby isn't even top 200 defensively.

 

[Gurglesons]

Who exactly would you consider a better winger then Jagr all time?? Who name 5 you could consider?

Howe and Hull are easily above him.

Then you start getting into the Ovechkin, Lafleur, etc comparisons.