Jacob Markstrom - Not Impressed.

[Mogo]

I don't see how Markstrom is "too good" for AHL. It's not like he dominated it

 

[Coach Nate]

I don't see how Markstrom is "too good" for AHL. It's not like he dominated it

He was very, very good (and dominant for long stretches) playing behind average to bad teams. He's likely not going to fix his deficiencies playing at this level. He needs to see NHL players to get better, IMO.

 

[Android 16]

He's 23. He still needs time to grow. It sounds cliche but it's true. He's getting thrown into the mix with a defense that doesn't play consistently and sometimes very soft. He should be in the AHL right now, imo.

 

[LuckyLuke87]

I've been one of Jacob's strongest supporters / believers for several years, but this season, I'm really disappointed. Looking at his numbers - labeling him bad is still quite an understatement. Make no mistake, I didn't expect glaring numbers like .920+ SA%, SO every fifth game and 25+ wins, but his current numbers are simply terrible and I hope his talent level is better than that. Add in the fact, that he never really dominated in AHL either (like Lehner for example) and my confidence in him is starting to shatter.

Any observation from someone who watches him play on regular basis? Are those statistics on par with his play in NHL? Is it lack of skill, lack of confidence or is team in front of him letting him down constantly? I'm starting to really worry, because Jacob is the future of Panthers goaltending and if he busts, than whole team is set for trouble.

 

[WESEERED]

I've been one of Jacob's strongest supporters / believers for several years, but this season, I'm really disappointed. Looking at his numbers - labeling him bad is still quite an understatement. Make no mistake, I didn't expect glaring numbers like .920+ SA%, SO every fifth game and 25+ wins, but his current numbers are simply terrible and I hope his talent level is better than that. Add in the fact, that he never really dominated in AHL either (like Lehner for example) and my confidence in him is starting to shatter.

Any observation from someone who watches him play on regular basis? Are those statistics on par with his play in NHL? Is it lack of skill, lack of confidence or is team in front of him letting him down constantly? I'm starting to really worry, because Jacob is the future of Panthers goaltending and if he busts, than whole team is set for trouble.

The team is definitely letting him down. However, he is letting in a lot of softies. I.E. last night he let in a ridiculous sharp angle shot that should have never made it into the net.

 

[gudzilla]

I've been one of Jacob's strongest supporters / believers for several years, but this season, I'm really disappointed. Looking at his numbers - labeling him bad is still quite an understatement. Make no mistake, I didn't expect glaring numbers like .920+ SA%, SO every fifth game and 25+ wins, but his current numbers are simply terrible and I hope his talent level is better than that. Add in the fact, that he never really dominated in AHL either (like Lehner for example) and my confidence in him is starting to shatter.

Any observation from someone who watches him play on regular basis? Are those statistics on par with his play in NHL? Is it lack of skill, lack of confidence or is team in front of him letting him down constantly? I'm starting to really worry, because Jacob is the future of Panthers goaltending and if he busts, than whole team is set for trouble.

the defense sucks horribly. you need to watch a few games before you make a comment based on stats. last game there was 3 or 4 2on1s, 2 goals were scored on them. he do make mistakes at time, but so does everyone.

he's just 23, most goaltenders break in later. he doesn't look out of place, he just looks like a low tier starter right now but he will develop. the defence is the biggest reason of his horrible stats, but he do let in a soft goal every now and then.

the hate on him on this board... i just hope he doesn't read it. i'd probably give up my career if i read what some people on here write about him, versteeg and other players. you can blame people when its due, but its hardly markströms fault that we average 2 goals a game.

markström _MUST_ have a GAA of 1.xx to have a winning record on this team. he'll have to be Quick of '11 for the kings, having ridicilous numbers to even give panthers a chance to win.

 

[EnforceTheLaus]

I've been one of Jacob's strongest supporters / believers for several years, but this season, I'm really disappointed. Looking at his numbers - labeling him bad is still quite an understatement. Make no mistake, I didn't expect glaring numbers like .920+ SA%, SO every fifth game and 25+ wins, but his current numbers are simply terrible and I hope his talent level is better than that. Add in the fact, that he never really dominated in AHL either (like Lehner for example) and my confidence in him is starting to shatter.

Any observation from someone who watches him play on regular basis? Are those statistics on par with his play in NHL? Is it lack of skill, lack of confidence or is team in front of him letting him down constantly? I'm starting to really worry, because Jacob is the future of Panthers goaltending and if he busts, than whole team is set for trouble.

No favors done by the team for sure. He did fine last season, he is just in a funk and needs to work through it. Besides the soft 2nd goal he was great otherwise.

 

[MintyFresh88]

I think it's probably still too early to tell. I definitely think there's long-term starter potential there, but it might not be elite like some once thought.

Seems like he consistently allows one soft(ish) goal per game right now, which needs to get figured out, but I don't think it means hes a bust.

Also, last night was a great example of how the team in front of him continues to hang him out to dry. It's the NHL, if you give any team (except us) that many prime odd man rushes/scoring chances, they are going to go in, it doesn't matter who's in net.

I thought he actually did well with most of them.

 

[angry_treefrog]

When I look at Markstrom, I look at a young player who has had his bubble popped. He's an uber-confident guy who I think is now questioning himself.

I don't think he is a bust yet, but if something isn't done to fix the team in front of him and if he doesn't get better coaching/mentoring, I think he's doomed.

How many more 2 on 0 breakaways can the kid take?

 

[RainingRats]

There's no chance Markstrom is a bust yet. I'm not sure why people can't understand that goalies take longer to develop and when they play in front of bad teams they're going to give up a lot of goals.

Markstrom has not helped himself giving up a soft goal a game but a lot of goaltending is confidence and there's no reason for him to have any right now. He's certainly not living up to the hype but he has plenty of time to improve before people start throwing the bust label around.

 

[Egblad]

Think ATF hit on it -- but remember when we drafted him -- one of his biggest aspects was his mental buildup? Extremely confident, wants to win, etc.. watch him in these games -- does he look confident? The answer is simple.

It's amazing how we've taken the kids #1 intangible asset and have shattered it.

 

[LuckyLuke87]

To make things clear - I'm not hating on Jacob or labeling him bust when he's 23 years old. Actually it's the opposite, I still have high hopes for him and hope he turns it around and comes out as mentally stronger goalie in the end. And I'm cheering for him as he seems to be pretty nice person...

But looking at context - Jacob's been considered as the best goalie prospect / best goalie outside the NHL for several years now. There are expectations attached to such a label and deservedly or not, the hype has been high. Considering how another young goalies - widely regarded as inferior / on par with Jacob - are doing right now, there is reason for doubts. Holtby is unquestioned no.1 in WSH. Lehner is looking like a legit starter, facing 40+ shots every night behind pretty leaky defense (OTT allows most shots on their goal in the NHL right now). And they both were dominant during their time in AHL. Jacob, since he came from Sweden was performing below expectations. He started poorly in AHL and in several years got to above average, but still not elite. In NHL - beyond his impressive stint in 2011/12 - it's more or less same / worse. High expectations might be unfair to him, but still, his numbers are weak even for someone with much lower pedigree. Also don't forget - he's not the first Panthers goalie playing behind atrocious defense. It's been the case (to some degree) for last decade and despite that, our goalies were always NHL elite with their stats.

Of course I'm still mentioning stats, not the actual play - that's why I'm asking. I don't have a chance to watch many games (several time zones away in Czech Republic) and I don't have a full picture. So if the team hangs Jacob out to dry every game, it explains a lot. On the other hand, letting softies in each game is not a great way to gain confidence of your teammates. Considering this - I'm afraid about the same thing as angry_treefrog - how much longer can he take it? His confidence must suffer right now and last thing I wish is Jacob leaving for Europe or blossoming in another NHL team in several years after getting his confidence back.

 

[FinlandPanther]

Wow there's some well thought out posts in here and no Markstrom is a bust! Posts. Count me surprised. I actually agree of the Markstrom topic that the kid looks absolutely traumatized in regards to confidence. He needs that back because we all saw the Markstrom that stole those New York and Montreal games and that guy was an absolute gamechanger. He has not been good, but the people who have been acting like he's been killing us in games are actually way off base and need a reason to blame someone instead of the team. The goalie always gets most of the blame because he is the backbone. I'm not saying the criticism is unwarranted at times, but were jumping on this kid like a dog on a bone. The weak goals kill the momentum yes, but how about we actually give the kid a reason to feel good in the net. Rant over.

 

[FinlandPanther]

To make things clear - I'm not hating on Jacob or labeling him bust when he's 23 years old. Actually it's the opposite, I still have high hopes for him and hope he turns it around and comes out as mentally stronger goalie in the end. And I'm cheering for him as he seems to be pretty nice person...

But looking at context - Jacob's been considered as the best goalie prospect / best goalie outside the NHL for several years now. There are expectations attached to such a label and deservedly or not, the hype has been high. Considering how another young goalies - widely regarded as inferior / on par with Jacob - are doing right now, there is reason for doubts. Holtby is unquestioned no.1 in WSH. Lehner is looking like a legit starter, facing 40+ shots every night behind pretty leaky defense (OTT allows most shots on their goal in the NHL right now). And they both were dominant during their time in AHL. Jacob, since he came from Sweden was performing below expectations. He started poorly in AHL and in several years got to above average, but still not elite. In NHL - beyond his impressive stint in 2011/12 - it's more or less same / worse. High expectations might be unfair to him, but still, his numbers are weak even for someone with much lower pedigree. Also don't forget - he's not the first Panthers goalie playing behind atrocious defense. It's been the case (to some degree) for last decade and despite that, our goalies were always NHL elite with their stats.

Of course I'm still mentioning stats, not the actual play - that's why I'm asking. I don't have a chance to watch many games (several time zones away in Czech Republic) and I don't have a full picture. So if the team hangs Jacob out to dry every game, it explains a lot. On the other hand, letting softies in each game is not a great way to gain confidence of your teammates. Considering this - I'm afraid about the same thing as angry_treefrog - how much longer can he take it? His confidence must suffer right now and last thing I wish is Jacob leaving for Europe or blossoming in another NHL team in several years after getting his confidence back.

I'm not really a fan of Holtby, never seen him as anything special. Lerner on the other hand is a very good goalie. It's on the defense and on Markstrom. We've seen his potential and he needs to get back on track.

 

[RainingRats]

To make things clear - I'm not hating on Jacob or labeling him bust when he's 23 years old. Actually it's the opposite, I still have high hopes for him and hope he turns it around and comes out as mentally stronger goalie in the end. And I'm cheering for him as he seems to be pretty nice person...

But looking at context - Jacob's been considered as the best goalie prospect / best goalie outside the NHL for several years now. There are expectations attached to such a label and deservedly or not, the hype has been high. Considering how another young goalies - widely regarded as inferior / on par with Jacob - are doing right now, there is reason for doubts. Holtby is unquestioned no.1 in WSH. Lehner is looking like a legit starter, facing 40+ shots every night behind pretty leaky defense (OTT allows most shots on their goal in the NHL right now). And they both were dominant during their time in AHL. Jacob, since he came from Sweden was performing below expectations. He started poorly in AHL and in several years got to above average, but still not elite. In NHL - beyond his impressive stint in 2011/12 - it's more or less same / worse. High expectations might be unfair to him, but still, his numbers are weak even for someone with much lower pedigree. Also don't forget - he's not the first Panthers goalie playing behind atrocious defense. It's been the case (to some degree) for last decade and despite that, our goalies were always NHL elite with their stats.

Of course I'm still mentioning stats, not the actual play - that's why I'm asking. I don't have a chance to watch many games (several time zones away in Czech Republic) and I don't have a full picture. So if the team hangs Jacob out to dry every game, it explains a lot. On the other hand, letting softies in each game is not a great way to gain confidence of your teammates. Considering this - I'm afraid about the same thing as angry_treefrog - how much longer can he take it? His confidence must suffer right now and last thing I wish is Jacob leaving for Europe or blossoming in another NHL team in several years after getting his confidence back.

Last night, two of the three goals in regulation he had no chance on. Horrible defense by Brian Campbell resulted in slam dunks for the Oilers.

The goal he let in, 95+% of NHL starters stop. That one extra goal is the difference between him being a legitimate starter in the NHL and not since he gives up a goal like that a game. He's got a mental issue right now. The soft goal was a complete lack of focus and so were other goals. Letting in soft goals kills your confidence and confidence is key.

 

[Dread Clawz]

When I look at Markstrom, I look at a young player who has had his bubble popped. He's an uber-confident guy who I think is now questioning himself.

I don't think he is a bust yet, but if something isn't done to fix the team in front of him and if he doesn't get better coaching/mentoring, I think he's doomed.

How many more 2 on 0 breakaways can the kid take?

This is why I won't mind if he's sent to the AHL. Keep him there until an NHL defense is assembled.

Goaltending is the least of this team's problems right now. The biggest problems are team defense and the lack of scoring.

 

[King Panther]

i said about a year ago that we shouldve traded for bernier and people said that it was a stupid idea. doesnt look so stupid now.

 

[Gizmo Tkachuk]

Last night, two of the three goals in regulation he had no chance on. Horrible defense by Brian Campbell resulted in slam dunks for the Oilers.

The goal he let in, 95+% of NHL starters stop. That one extra goal is the difference between him being a legitimate starter in the NHL and not since he gives up a goal like that a game. He's got a mental issue right now. The soft goal was a complete lack of focus and so were other goals. Letting in soft goals kills your confidence and confidence is key.

Agree 100%

Once Thomas is healthy, I think we should send Markstrom back the AHL to work on that confidence. You can't call a goalie with less than a season's worth of career NHL games a bust just yet.

 

[Dread Clawz]

i said about a year ago that we shouldve traded for bernier and people said that it was a stupid idea. doesnt look so stupid now.

Considering Matt Frattin went the other way, we would have had to give up at least Bjugstad or Trocheck. And the Leafs also gave them Scrivens.

 

[ProjectPanthers]

Think ATF hit on it -- but remember when we drafted him -- one of his biggest aspects was his mental buildup? Extremely confident, wants to win, etc.. watch him in these games -- does he look confident? The answer is simple.

It's amazing how we've taken the kids #1 intangible asset and have shattered it.

This line hauntingly sums up this teams player development over the course of its entire existence.

Goaltending is so much about positioning. How you place your body relative to the angle at which the puck is at. If your positioning is on point you have an exponentially greater chance of making the save. Markstrom had a terrible position there. Not only did he read the angle incorrectly is irrelevant because he dropped to his knees immediately and the shot beat him high. If he stays on his feet as most NHL goaltenders would have, it's a routine save and a whistle.

The entire team is a mess now. Markstrom's confidence is at an all time low. You can see it in his body language. You can tell he doesn't trust his defense (can't blame him there) either as often he's caught cheating because he is worried his dman won't cover.

I think it's unfair to put this kind of pressure on him. He basically knows if he gives up more than 2 goals on any night that the team is going to lose. That's not a healthy environment for a kid trying to learn at the pro level. That's a lot of pressure for someone very young and inexperienced.

Send him to the AHL. Let him play on a better team with a better chance of being successful. Get his confidence up and have another go of it next season. This year is a lost cause. Keeping him up hurts his development in my opinion. He needs to believe in himself and his teammates more, and that just isn't happening in South Florida at the moment.


And honestly, does anyone even care at this point if Clemmer gets the majority of starts for the rest of the season? We're going nowhere fast. No point in going for it.

Also, send Bjugs down to get more time on the top two lines and work on his offensive game. A year in the A will help him IMO. Plus having him as a 1-2 with Trocheck down in SA makes that team look badass. Maybe form some sort of winning culture within this franchise.

 

[harv33173]

i agree, send him to the ahl. he is not nhl ready at this point. last year and this year he has not shown to be nhl ready even as a backup. as already mentioned at least one soft goal a game, bad rebound control, soft 5 hole, appears lack of confidence, poor postioning. yes, the team is letting him down, but in the same breadth he's letting the team down. a soft goal, or two a game kills momentum and the pyschie of the team. you work hard to get a goal and then the other team scores a softy with little to no effort, or the first goal, or go ahead goal how does that effect the rest of the team? i believe we've lost 7 one goal games how many soft goals in that 5,7,9? if we would've won half those games we be in the playoff hunt, so our goaltending, especially markstrom needs to be accountable in those losses. as far as us not scoring goals, it's true to a point, but if you look around the nhl there aren't many blow outs, or high scoring games. on the average i'd say teams are scoring 2-3 goals per game with the occasional high scoring game. bottom line is you can't win in this league without good, to excellent goaltending and markstrom is doing neither for the past 2 years. he needs to be sent down and get a goalie coach who can work on his deficiencies, both physical and mental. he needs that change of scenery and lessened pressure. if he can't turn his deficiencies around by the middle to end of next year i will have to call him a bust. but i truly hope that doesn't happen and this kid finds his game and confidence and finally puts it all together to be the elite goalie were all hoping for.

 

[CHGoalie27]

i agree, send him to the ahl. he is not nhl ready at this point. last year and this year he has not shown to be nhl ready even as a backup. as already mentioned at least one soft goal a game, bad rebound control, soft 5 hole, appears lack of confidence, poor postioning. yes, the team is letting him down, but in the same breadth he's letting the team down. a soft goal, or two a game kills momentum and the pyschie of the team. you work hard to get a goal and then the other team scores a softy with little to no effort, or the first goal, or go ahead goal how does that effect the rest of the team? i believe we've lost 7 one goal games how many soft goals in that 5,7,9? if we would've won half those games we be in the playoff hunt, so our goaltending, especially markstrom needs to be accountable in those losses. as far as us not scoring goals, it's true to a point, but if you look around the nhl there aren't many blow outs, or high scoring games. on the average i'd say teams are scoring 2-3 goals per game with the occasional high scoring game. bottom line is you can't win in this league without good, to excellent goaltending and markstrom is doing neither for the past 2 years. he needs to be sent down and get a goalie coach who can work on his deficiencies, both physical and mental. he needs that change of scenery and lessened pressure. if he can't turn his deficiencies around by the middle to end of next year i will have to call him a bust. but i truly hope that doesn't happen and this kid finds his game and confidence and finally puts it all together to be the elite goalie were all hoping for.

I truly think you're being too hard on him and inconsiderate of the surrounding factors.
Regarding the 1-goal-games, you didn't even mention the obvious "Phantom/Skinny/BS" calls and NON calls that are forever sodomizing our boys...

 

[CHGoalie27]

I truly think you're being too hard on him and inconsiderate of the surrounding factors.
Regarding the 1-goal-games, you didn't even mention the obvious "Phantom/Skinny/BS" calls and NON calls that are forever sodomizing our boys...

That and not every said- to-be soft goals are in fact soft goals.

 

[harv33173]

sorry i stand behind my assessment. markie is not nhl readay by any stretch of the imagination at this point in his career.

 

[CHGoalie27]

sorry i stand behind my assessment. markie is not nhl readay by any stretch of the imagination at this point in his career.

No need to apologize my friend, I never said you were necessarily or entirely wrong, I'm just saying given what's in front of him it's much tougher to tell how accurate you really are in your assessment.