Prospect Info: Jacob Bernard-Docker (D) 3 year ELC signed

[BondraTime]

JBD and Thomson aren't comparable aside from draft selection. One's been great and improving, the other has been bad and declining

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

What are you basing the overrated part on. He led the D on One of the top ranked NCAA teams. He was very solid at the WJC. He’s a guaranteed top 4 NHL D as a floor whereas Thomson is a question mark in my eyes.

I wouldn’t compare them yet until both are in Belleville. Thomson plays in a much harder league

 

[JD1]

I wouldn’t compare them yet until both are in Belleville. Thomson plays in a much harder league

I think the problem with Thomson is that he's not playing....he's been a healthy scratch this year on occasion

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Thomson is not developing his 2 way D skills and JBD is ... thougher league or not These years development wise are absolutely critical.

 

[GCK]

Thomson is not a write off by any stretch but he has and maybe always was a question mark. Those who doubt JBDs progression haven’t been paying attention, which happens all the time with AJHL and BCJHL draftees.

 

[Hale The Villain]

What are you basing the overrated part on. He led the D on One of the top ranked NCAA teams. He was very solid at the WJC. He’s a guaranteed top 4 NHL D as a floor whereas Thomson is a question mark in my eyes.

You know how many D are guaranteed top 4 guys? Very very few. Sanderson may be one, so we spent a 5th OVR pick to get him.

JBD has top 4 potential but he's by no means a lock to become one. His floor is a bust, like 95% of draft picks.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Don't think JBD will translate quite as well as people are expecting. He's smart and has a nice shot from the point, but the rest of his game is pretty average. Not that big, not that fast, and his hands and puckmoving ability are only okay.

I'm expecting JBD to develop into a better version of DeMelo. Think DeMelo with a good shot instead of a muffin.

20-30P smart two-way D that does everything well, nothing elite. Decent 2nd pairing D, great 3rd pairing D.

 

[Sensinitis]

Don't think JBD will translate quite as well as people are expecting. He's smart and has a nice shot from the point, but the rest of his game is pretty average. Not that big, not that fast, and his hands and puckmoving ability are only okay.

I'm expecting JBD to develop into a better version of DeMelo. Think DeMelo with a good shot instead of a muffin.

20-30P smart two-way D that does everything well, nothing elite. Decent 2nd pairing D, great 3rd pairing D.

DeMelo is a good comparison, I think that’s JBD’s floor.

 

[GCK]

You know how many D are guaranteed top 4 guys? Very very few. Sanderson may be one, so we spent a 5th OVR pick to get him.

JBD has top 4 potential but he's by no means a lock to become one. His floor is a bust, like 95% of draft picks.

Nope. He’s guaranteed top 4. He might even skip the AHL completely next year.

 

[JD1]

You know how many D are guaranteed top 4 guys? Very very few. Sanderson may be one, so we spent a 5th OVR pick to get him.

JBD has top 4 potential but he's by no means a lock to become one. His floor is a bust, like 95% of draft picks.

I think your bust statement applies on draft day but 2 years later with JBD i think it's fair to say he's raised his floor from bust to NHL defencemen. What's debatable at this point is where he slots at the NHL level.

 

[Sweatred]

What are you basing the overrated part on. He led the D on One of the top ranked NCAA teams. He was very solid at the WJC. He’s a guaranteed top 4 NHL D as a floor whereas Thomson is a question mark in my eyes.

I think his WJC was “ok” and leading ND’s defense doesn’t make you a 1-2DMAN. I like the prospect but I think he has top 4 DMAN potential. On the other side, I think LT shoots harder, plays nastier and has equal top 4 potential. Some are writing him off.

Nothing wrong wit a 20 year old playing 5-6 DMAN minutes in a pro league. Probably the same place JBD plays if he were in Belleville.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

My thoughts are that we shouldn't peg him as the future #2/Chabot soulmate that we all hope he might be. That's a huge ask.

And while I think hes an awesome prospect and have reasonable amount of faith that hes gonna be a good player for us one day. I'm thrilled that we took Sanderson at the draft tbh.

Sanderson is basically the player we want JBD to be imo (different sides I know), but hes an elite version of him. Sanderson will be the only dman on our team besides Chabot that can anchor a pairing on his own, and match up well against the NHLs best forwards.

JBD will be able to play some hard minutes and hopefully not look out of place in his prime, likely as #4 kinds guy. Anything more than that will be a huge bonus imo.

Totally agree with this. I can see him playing with Chabot but being more of our number four D. I'm hoping that our D shakes out like this in a few years (with total ice time rankings)

Chabot (1) - JBD (4)
Sanderson (2) - Brannstrom (3)

Nice balances of offense and defense and no offensive black holes in the top 4. Very mobile as well with some guys who can play a shutdown role.

 

[LudwigVonKarlsson]

Not convinced either JBD or Thomson will be anything special. IMO they both could've easily been had in the 2nd round but Ottawa loves trading up to get "their guy" so we can only hope the scouts see something in them that us peasants don't.

 

[BondraTime]

Not convinced either JBD or Thomson will be anything special. IMO they both could've easily been had in the 2nd round but Ottawa loves trading up to get "their guy" so we can only hope the scouts see something in them that us peasants don't.

I mean, not sure how anyone could watch JBD and not think he was worth a late 1st at this point.

 

[Sweatred]

I mean, not sure how anyone could watch JBD and not think he was worth a late 1st at this point.

He was “meh” at the WJC. He played the shutdown roll for Canada but most good teams had him pushed to his limits and chasing the play. It also dried up any offensive or creative play he might have and he wasn’t physical. Inversely LT played the same roll and played it tougher/meaner for FIN. I preferred Thomson’s WJC but I don’t think either are top 4 locks. I’m definitely not discouraged that LT is playing on the third pair. If both went to Belleville I’d expect LT to be a little ahead of JBD.

 

[Masked]

I mean, not sure how anyone could watch JBD and not think he was worth a late 1st at this point.

Or accuse the Senators of trading up to get their guy while they traded down to pick JBD.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He was “meh” at the WJC. He played the shutdown roll for Canada but most good teams had him pushed to his limits and chasing the play. It also dried up any offensive or creative play he might have and he wasn’t physical. Inversely LT played the same roll and played it tougher/meaner for FIN. I preferred Thomson’s WJC but I don’t think either are top 4 locks. I’m definitely not discouraged that LT is playing on the third pair. If both went to Belleville I’d expect LT to be a little ahead of JBD.

i disagree, i mean thomson was trainwreckish at the WJC. JBD i feel was just put in that spot becausew the coaches tusted him more than anyone else but really he should have been let loose a littl emore

 

[Sweatred]

i disagree, i mean thomson was trainwreckish at the WJC. JBD i feel was just put in that spot becausew the coaches tusted him more than anyone else but really he should have been let loose a littl emore

I agree with your assessment on JBD’s use and play ... but that doesn’t mean he will automatically be a top 2 or top 4 Dman. In my view it was an uninspiring tourney for our best shutdown D. Lassi’s play didn’t scare me, at least relative to JBD... he was was mean.

 

[Samsquanch]

Totally agree with this. I can see him playing with Chabot but being more of our number four D. I'm hoping that our D shakes out like this in a few years (with total ice time rankings)

Chabot (1) - JBD (4)
Sanderson (2) - Brannstrom (3)

Nice balances of offense and defense and no offensive black holes in the top 4. Very mobile as well with some guys who can play a shutdown role.

This is 100% my dream and fairly hopeful prediction of how it plays out for us.

Thompson and Wolainin would make a solid 3rd pairing too imo, but not expecting much more than that from either of them

 

[FlabJack]

I think the problem with Thomson is that he's not playing....he's been a healthy scratch this year on occasion

I hope i don't come across as a huge dick when i say this, but Ilves has played 12 games, Thomson has played in 11 games. He's hardly been a healthy scratch "this year on occasion".
Sure, he has not been playing a lot of minutes (icetime per game can be found here Ottelu ottelulta | #33 Thomson, Lassi | Liiga ) and hs obviously been a bit disappointing but to be fair there's still lots of hockey left and hopefully he can get it going. Still, I can't help but feeling he's got a real mountain to climb and isn't really even comparable to JBD at this point.

 

[Xspyrit]

I think the problem with Thomson is that he's not playing....he's been a healthy scratch this year on occasion

He's playing, he just missed 1 game. But he's playing less minutes than last year and more in a depth role because Valimaki (who is a top NHL prospect) has also been loaned to the Ilves, so we automatically assume that he is struggling. Yes some posters have been really down on his play but I have also read that his defensive play has improved comparatively to last year. It seems that it's offensively that he hasn't done much but that could be just a matter of confidence and opportunity.

The Covid has changed a LOT of things and hockey isn't different. It was expected that some players would struggle more than others after a long break. Maybe he didn't do much to stay in shape so he got leapfrogged by players hungrier than him. He wasn't supposed to play in Finland anymore, he was Belleville bound. He needs to go there and find back his offensive game while continuing to improve defensively. Belleville coaching staff seems great for young players so if there's a place that he can get back on the right track, it's probably there.

I'm going to predict that he will "rise up from the dead" before the end of 2021 and become a very good prospect again. I don't think he'll ever be a top pairing D-man because I don't see his game being "complete" enough for that, but I could see him being a 2nd pairing guy that is a PP weapon. That's how they have to develop him, don't try to make him something that he is not ala Ceci. Good thing for him is that there's Chabot, Sanderson, Brannstrom and JBD aheead of him (and Wolanin)

That being said, JBD is clearly the better prospect at the moment (surprised that he's just 3 months older). He has a "safer" and more transferable game to the NHL, he's good at everything so there's no weakness in his game that could hinder him from being a quality NHL player. He just needs to stay healthy, work hard and continue his progress.

I think your bust statement applies on draft day but 2 years later with JBD i think it's fair to say he's raised his floor from bust to NHL defencemen. What's debatable at this point is where he slots at the NHL level.

Exactly, scouting has evolved a lot, our knowledge has also expanded with time. It,s become clearer and clearer to see which prospects are going to be NHLers. For example, Formenton and Colin White were guaranteed NHL players not long after being drafted, heck maybe even on draft day

Of course, things can always change and nothing is linear, example injuries derail a lot of careers.

Not convinced either JBD or Thomson will be anything special. IMO they both could've easily been had in the 2nd round but Ottawa loves trading up to get "their guy" so we can only hope the scouts see something in them that us peasants don't.

It's becoming clearer and clearer that the Ottawa Senators have a huge draft tendency in selecting risers. It's not about what these prospects have done BEFORE the draft. It's about what they will do AFTER. That's how NHL teams draft, in comparison to how the "internet" does.

It seems like they have been totally right about JBD, and Pinto, and Formenton, etc. And like someone else said, they didn't trade up to get JBD, they traded down, which was one of Dorion's first best coups.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

We shouldn't be worried about JBD not signing with us, UND is basically our farm at this point. Let them all gel together and become friends and they'll want to play together in Ottawa too.

Re: Lassi. News hasn't been great with regards to his development. Hopefully he can at least turn into a 3rd pairing Dman PP specialist with a bomb of a shot.. kind of like a post-prime Brian McCabe.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

It's becoming clearer and clearer that the Ottawa Senators have a huge draft tendency in selecting risers. It's not about what these prospects have done BEFORE the draft. It's about what they will do AFTER. That's how NHL teams draft, in comparison to how the "internet" does.

It seems like they have been totally right about JBD, and Pinto, and Formenton, etc. And like someone else said, they didn't trade up to get JBD, they traded down, which was one of Dorion's first best coups.

I'll take that a step further. JBD, Formenton and Pinto are 20, 19 and 21 years old. It's not even about what they're doing NOW that matters but what happens 2-4 years down the road.

The Sens draft strategy has been interesting in the last few years for sure. There are some elements that I'm not crazy about (going for 20 year olds for example), but I like a lot of what they try to do. They try to identify players who are on a steep development curve because they:
- grew late (Formenton, Batherson, Daoust)
- are about to get increased opportunity (Formenton, Daoust, Jarventie, JBD)
- are late to playing hockey full-time (Pinto)
- have one outstanding skill but could improve on the rest of their game (Brown, Formenton, Thomson)
- have a rare physical attribute that perhaps they haven't learned to use yet (Sokolov, Soogard)

It won't always work out but it's interesting to see how they approach finding players who are going to be good 5 years after their draft. It puts an emphasis on development and I think that's a pretty sound philosophy. And luckily, right now anyway, I think we have a very good AHL coach and some quality training personnel.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

We shouldn't be worried about JBD not signing with us, UND is basically our farm at this point. Let them all gel together and become friends and they'll want to play together in Ottawa too.

Re: Lassi. News hasn't been great with regards to his development. Hopefully he can at least turn into a 3rd pairing Dman PP specialist with a bomb of a shot.. kind of like a post-prime Brian McCabe.

Maybe we can get Zdeno to do us a solid and shake some life into Lassi.

 

[Xspyrit]

I'll take that a step further. JBD, Formenton and Pinto are 20, 19 and 21 years old. It's not even about what they're doing NOW that matters but what happens 2-4 years down the road.

The Sens draft strategy has been interesting in the last few years for sure. There are some elements that I'm not crazy about (going for 20 year olds for example), but I like a lot of what they try to do. They try to identify players who are on a steep development curve because they:
- grew late (Formenton, Batherson, Daoust)
- are about to get increased opportunity (Formenton, Daoust, Jarventie, JBD)
- are late to playing hockey full-time (Pinto)
- have one outstanding skill but could improve on the rest of their game (Brown, Formenton, Thomson)
- have a rare physical attribute that perhaps they haven't learned to use yet (Sokolov, Soogard)

It won't always work out but it's interesting to see how they approach finding players who are going to be good 5 years after their draft. It puts an emphasis on development and I think that's a pretty sound philosophy. And luckily, right now anyway, I think we have a very good AHL coach and some quality training personnel.

One of the best posts I have read recently.