Proposal: Jackets/ Wild Blockbuster

[mikeyp24]

At least you are finally dressing the part.

 

[2Pair]

At least you are finally dressing the part.

That was for you. Shocking that you couldn't figure that out either.

 

[Bazeek]

Pace isnt the same as goals per game. People use those out of context. They want to pace EVERYTHING from points to minutes to goals too etc... goals per game is just a way of saying how often someone scores goals when comparing so someone cant hide behind secondary assists or saying someone hasnt hit 20 when they hit 19 twice and 1 was because mass games missed.

"Pace" and "blah per blah" are exactly the same thing. It's like saying MPH and speed aren't the same thing.

 

[redwings25]

granlund is the wilds best forward, there is no way he is traded for a rental. he drags the corpse of koivu around and still puts up the points.

 

[mikeyp24]

That was for you. Shocking that you couldn't figure that out either.

Shocking that was uour best zinger

 

[mikeyp24]

"Pace" and "blah per blah" are exactly the same thing. It's like saying MPH and speed aren't the same thing.

Pace is an estimation on what you would have had. Goals per game is an actual number of what you have done.

So its have done vs should have done.

 

[Melkor]

Lol'd at CBJ's fans saying they wouldn't trade rental Panarin for Granlund. In no world a good GM passes on that offer if he's a CBJ GM. If you don't understand that Panarin won't sign with you, you wont even when he in fact walks. He basically saying "I dont want to spend the best years of my career here so sorry but you are warned, deal with that as you want". Two bonafide proven top-6 wingers one of whom can also play C when needed for an excellent rental and a middle-6 power forward the kind of which you can find any year on free agency or through trade for a couple of picks.

 

[Digitalbooya]

You have avoided every fact by trying to spin it. Go with their goal numbers then account for the power play, line played on, and games played. That will help you figure out if he has alwas been better or is just on a great pace to be.better after this year.

I’m not the one trying to spin a 30 pt player as equal to a 65+ pt player. I even gifted your boy pace points AND took away power play points for Granlund and Anderson still isn’t better than him. Want to bring linemates into this? Anderson’s most common linemates were Panarin and Dubois per LeftWingLock. Tell you what, I’d bet money that line wasn’t deployed like Zucker-Koivu-Granlund (Minnesota’s most common line).

Let me refute your points directly:
Goal numbers: don’t prove who is more “skilled” or “valuable.” Example, Crosby only had 20 even strength goals for the full 82 games. Are you going to argue that Anderson is more skilled or equal skilled to Sydney Crosby? Assists have meaning and if you choose to blatantly ignore assists than you are proving my point of mental gymnastics. Especially considering Granlund is a playmaker. Remember, your argument wasn’t “better even strength scorer” but rather equal or better skill/value for Anderson. Being able to shoot is just one of many abilities in a skillset.

Line played on: Zucker-Koivu-Granlund is a shutdown line. You’ll have a hard time convincing me Panarin-PLD-Anderson was a shutdown line. Both have roughly the same percentage for how common the lines were used. Granlund is the best player on his line. Anderson IMO is third best on his line and that’s not a bad thing considering Panarin is insanely skilled and PLD was a top 3 pick. The overall time on ice difference per game is +45 seconds for Granlund (18:47 vs 18:02). The difference in power play time is +1:08 for Granlund (2:30 vs 1:22), almost a wash when you compare shorthanded time where Granlund plays +56 seconds (1:55 vs 0:59). Then even strength Anderson plays +1:20 more than Granlund (15:42 vs 14:22).

Games played: I tried using pace and you reponded:

Dont use pace... pace is an estimate not an accurate number.

There’s nothing else to go off of. He has no history you can use to back up your claims. You don’t accept paced out numbers. You can’t even use this as an argument cause you said it yourself: not to use pace. So his 30pt career high is just that, 30 pts.

To your last line, Granlund has been better from the beginning. Everyone knows it except you.

5v5
G/60:
Anderson 0.96
Nino 0.77
Granlund 0.64

A/60:
Granlund 1.45
Nino 0.85
Anderson 0.51

P/60:
Granlund 2.09
Nino 1.62
Anderson 1.48

All situations:
G/60
Nino 1.14
Anderson 1.00
Granlund 0.87

A/60:
Granlund 1.91
Nino 0.83
Anderson 0.58

P/60
Granlund 2.78
Nino 1.97
Anderson 1.58

 

[Digitalbooya]

Here’s another golden nugget:
5v5 zone starts:
Granlund 27.01% offensive, 35.73% defensive, 37.25% neutral
Nino 30.95% offensive, 30.39% defensive. 38.66% neutral
Anderson 38.68% offensive, 25.71% defensive, 35.76% neutral

 

[2Pair]

Pace is an estimation on what you would have had. Goals per game is an actual number of what you have done.

So its have done vs should have done.

Shocker, but you're wrong again. Goals per game is a "pace". they are the same thing. Using a "pace" to predict what could happen, is called a "projection". Calling a guy with a career high of 19 goals, a "25 goal scorer" would be a projection. Because you see, 19 is "have done" and your mystery number of 25 would be "could have done".

 

[mikeyp24]

Lol'd at CBJ's fans saying they wouldn't trade rental Panarin for Granlund. In no world a good GM passes on that offer if he's a CBJ GM. If you don't understand that Panarin won't sign with you, you wont even when he in fact walks. He basically saying "I dont want to spend the best years of my career here so sorry but you are warned, deal with that as you want". Two bonafide proven top-6 wingers one of whom can also play C when needed for an excellent rental and a middle-6 power forward the kind of which you can find any year on free agency or through trade for a couple of picks.

We WOULD trade a rental Panarin for them. If those 2 were offered for unsigned Panarin at the TDL we would do it likely. But that isnt the offer. Panarin isnt being shopped as a rental. Idk how hard it is to get that when every cbj fan has pointed out we dont mind him walking. We are only trading for a rental if they pay us the he is signed price amd we will trade him signed.

Also people arent making the offer of those 2 wingers for bread its bread AND Anderson. Anderson is not available especially for non upgrades. Those players likely dont produce at the same pace as Anderson in this system. No player will stand out if you look at points on cbj. We spread them out everywhere. Thats why we consistently have guys in the 25 to 30 goal range but they get no credit because we dont live on secondary assists like others.

 

[Drake1588]

Unless the year goes poorly out of the gate, I don't see the Blue Jackets trading Panarin. That's a really good Columbus team. As long as they are in, I think they will opt to keep Panarin for the playoffs. If he walks, so be it. Outside of HF, teams are far more inclined to let it ride than they are apt to play asset management games.

 

[mikeyp24]

Shocker, but you're wrong again. Goals per game is a "pace". they are the same thing. Using a "pace" to predict what could happen, is called a "projection". Calling a guy with a career high of 19 goals, a "25 goal scorer" would be a projection. Because you see, 19 is "have done" and your mystery number of 25 would be "could have done".

No goals per game is an average... pace is an estimate. But there is no reason to keep arguing that over and over ill believe facts and you believe your opinion.


End of the day Anderson has won at all his levels of play whether it be the championship in jrs, AHL. Other stuff when he was like 12. He has always improved his numbers from previous years. He hit 17 in 78 games with no PP goals and never playing above the 3rd line. Last year scored 19 in 63 games with no pp again. The kid has shown to be a capable goal scorer when healthy and there is.no reason to think based on his current goals a game the numbers dont lie. At his age, playstyle, and his contract why trade him? Anderson has an AMAZING contract.

So yes with all things considered worst case is he is equal to those 2 players. Not combined but of you compare to each seperately.

 

[Spurgeon]

No goals per game is an average... pace is an estimate. But there is no reason to keep arguing that over and over ill believe facts and you believe your opinion.


End of the day Anderson has won at all his levels of play whether it be the championship in jrs, AHL. Other stuff when he was like 12. He has always improved his numbers from previous years. He hit 17 in 78 games with no PP goals and never playing above the 3rd line. Last year scored 19 in 63 games with no pp again. The kid has shown to be a capable goal scorer when healthy and there is.no reason to think based on his current goals a game the numbers dont lie. At his age, playstyle, and his contract why trade him? Anderson has an AMAZING contract.

So yes with all things considered worst case is he is equal to those 2 players. Not combined but of you compare to each seperately.

Digitalbooya literally did a comparison of all the players and they aren't even close in numbers. Do you have no reading comprehension or just a selective one?

 

[Digitalbooya]

No goals per game is an average... pace is an estimate. But there is no reason to keep arguing that over and over ill believe facts and you believe your opinion.


End of the day Anderson has won at all his levels of play whether it be the championship in jrs, AHL. Other stuff when he was like 12. He has always improved his numbers from previous years. He hit 17 in 78 games with no PP goals and never playing above the 3rd line. Last year scored 19 in 63 games with no pp again. The kid has shown to be a capable goal scorer when healthy and there is.no reason to think based on his current goals a game the numbers dont lie. At his age, playstyle, and his contract why trade him? Anderson has an AMAZING contract.

So yes with all things considered worst case is he is equal to those 2 players. Not combined but of you compare to each seperately.

Nope. He couldn’t even beat a one-legged Nino in the same amount of games played while receiving way more overall ice time.

It’s funny you say you bring facts, but everything you say wreaks of emotion and opinion. I mean look at your post. He’s won at every level? What top 9 NHLer has NOT won at previous levels? You couldn’t even get the one fact you brought to the table right (that he scored 19 even strength goals and he had no pp time). He had 18 even strength goals and 1 power play goal. He also averaged roughly one minute of power play time per game. Not a ton, but certainly not nothing.

Granlund>Nino>Anderson

Anything other than that is ignoring statistics and facts for emotion and opinion, or best known as being a biased homer.

 

[2Pair]

No goals per game is an average... pace is an estimate. But there is no reason to keep arguing that over and over ill believe facts and you believe your opinion.


End of the day Anderson has won at all his levels of play whether it be the championship in jrs, AHL. Other stuff when he was like 12. He has always improved his numbers from previous years. He hit 17 in 78 games with no PP goals and never playing above the 3rd line. Last year scored 19 in 63 games with no pp again. The kid has shown to be a capable goal scorer when healthy and there is.no reason to think based on his current goals a game the numbers dont lie. At his age, playstyle, and his contract why trade him? Anderson has an AMAZING contract.

So yes with all things considered worst case is he is equal to those 2 players. Not combined but of you compare to each seperately.

I'm done trying to teach you basic English, but since you brought up the bolded, let's discuss a few" facts"-
Josh Anderson has never scored 20 goals in a season
Nino Niederreiter has 3 20 goal seasons in his career
Mikael Granlund has 2 20 goal seasons in his career

Josh Anderson's career high is 30 points in a season
Nino Niederreiter's career high his 57 points. He has scored more than Anderson's career high in each of the last 5 seasons.
Mikael Granlund's career high is 69 points in a season. He has scored more than Anderson's career high in each of the last 5 seasons.
Mikael Granlund also has 5 straight seasons where he had more assists than Anderson's career high in points.

Josh Anderson's career total of points over 4 seasons is 64.
Mikael Granlund has surpassed 64 points in each of the last 2 seasons.


Despite your claims of "facts", Josh Anderson averaged over 1:20 of PP/TOI last season. He managed to score 1 PP goal.
Columbus had the 7th WORST PP in the league last year.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

I'd be very happy with this return, although I'd like to see a small add (mid round pick) coming from MIN.

I freaking love Granlund. I don't see this happening for many of the reasons fans have stated.

Ignore mikey, who gets like this sometime.

An add? Hahaha..

 

[mikeyp24]

Nope. He couldn’t even beat a one-legged Nino in the same amount of games played while receiving way more overall ice time.

It’s funny you say you bring facts, but everything you say wreaks of emotion and opinion. I mean look at your post. He’s won at every level? What top 9 NHLer has NOT won at previous levels? You couldn’t even get the one fact you brought to the table right (that he scored 19 even strength goals and he had no pp time). He had 18 even strength goals and 1 power play goal. He also averaged roughly one minute of power play time per game. Not a ton, but certainly not nothing.

Granlund>Nino>Anderson

Anything other than that is ignoring statistics and facts for emotion and opinion, or best known as being a biased homer.

I said no PP time for the 1st year but I had him at 19 goals that year it was 17 I 100% was off there I thought it qas back to back 19 years. And not everyone has won at every level? See if you can find someone who won the title in jrs the the AHL title and were staring/key roles in both titles. Theres no doubt a few but not its not common. Then a team that never made the playoffs consecutive years does once he comes here. He is a leader and a winner.

And what was Ninos goals and games played at 23 and 24. Might as well get me granlunds too.

 

[mikeyp24]

I'm done trying to teach you basic English, but since you brought up the bolded, let's discuss a few" facts"-
Josh Anderson has never scored 20 goals in a season
Nino Niederreiter has 3 20 goal seasons in his career
Mikael Granlund has 2 20 goal seasons in his career

Josh Anderson's career high is 30 points in a season
Nino Niederreiter's career high his 57 points. He has scored more than Anderson's career high in each of the last 5 seasons.
Mikael Granlund's career high is 69 points in a season. He has scored more than Anderson's career high in each of the last 5 seasons.
Mikael Granlund also has 5 straight seasons where he had more assists than Anderson's career high in points.

Josh Anderson's career total of points over 4 seasons is 64.
Mikael Granlund has surpassed 64 points in each of the last 2 seasons.


Despite your claims of "facts", Josh Anderson averaged over 1:20 of PP/TOI last season. He managed to score 1 PP goal.
Columbus had the 7th WORST PP in the league last year.

Correct Anderson never scored 20 he scored 17 as a rookie with no Pp time (notice I keep saying that inrefence to his rookie year not last year... rookie year) and he scored 19 while missing 20 games last year. So you are disingenuous by using 20 when he likely hits 25 health. Then you mention assists twice which has no bearing on how good a player is. It just means he plays with players who score better then him... I put 0 weight behind assists so its funny the reasons you give why he is better is strengthening my opinion of why anderson is at worst even. Goalies get assists... people get assists when they arent ecen on the ice sometimes. People have gotte. Assists when they hadnt touched the puck in 20 seconds before.

So your only thing you said that has weight behind it is the number of 20 goal seasons each player has had. Anderson puts up a little over 20 a year. I did the math earlier it was something like 20.97 for every 82 games. He has been in the league 2 years. So right now he isnat granlunds pace only (maybe????) younger and on a contract 100 times better.

Again easily keep Anderson over either guy.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I said no PP time for the 1st year but I had him at 19 goals that year it was 17 I 100% was off there I thought it qas back to back 19 years. And not everyone has won at every level? See if you can find someone who won the title in jrs the the AHL title and were staring/key roles in both titles. Theres no doubt a few but not its not common. Then a team that never made the playoffs consecutive years does once he comes here. He is a leader and a winner.

And what was Ninos goals and games played at 23 and 24. Might as well get me granlunds too.

Completely irrelevant as you’re talking Anderson vs Nino/Granlund right now, not when they were 23/24 years old. But since you asked, Granlund had 13 goals 44 points in 82 games as an out of place center at age 23 and 26 goals 69 points in 81 games when he shifted to wing at 24 years old. Nino had 20 goals 43 points in 82 games at age 23 and 25 goals 57 points in 82 games at age 24. Both did better than Anderson. Neither one got to play with a player of Panarin’s talent level.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Correct Anderson never scored 20 he scored 17 as a rookie with no Pp time (notice I keep saying that inrefence to his rookie year not last year... rookie year) and he scored 19 while missing 20 games last year. So you are disingenuous by using 20 when he likely hits 25 health. Then you mention assists twice which has no bearing on how good a player is. It just means he plays with players who score better then him... I put 0 weight behind assists so its funny the reasons you give why he is better is strengthening my opinion of why anderson is at worst even. Goalies get assists... people get assists when they arent ecen on the ice sometimes. People have gotte. Assists when they hadnt touched the puck in 20 seconds before.

So your only thing you said that has weight behind it is the number of 20 goal seasons each player has had. Anderson puts up a little over 20 a year. I did the math earlier it was something like 20.97 for every 82 games. He has been in the league 2 years. So right now he isnat granlunds pace only (maybe????) younger and on a contract 100 times better.

Again easily keep Anderson over either guy.

Is that actually what you think? Assists are meaningless? Why do players even pass the puck then? Clearly the only important part of being a good hockey player is their shot... right?

I mean shoot, if goal totals are the only thing determining who’s a better player, I guess Zucker is better than Panarin. Specifically using your logic to draw that conclusion, of course.

 

[mikeyp24]

It matters because you are getting future years of him if its in a trade.... I dont see how you dont get that. Currently on a super team friendly deal and puts up 20.97(i thonk the number was) goals per 82. And that was at 22 and 23. So you jave to factor in potential. So a guy who was better at the same age as 2 guys you are trying to have him in a trade with ALONG with Panarin. We give up the beat 2 assets. Why would anyone do that. Thats like me trading you Foligno and Dubi for Granlund. Look at all the times they hit 20 goals. Folignos xareer high is better then theres. They must be better.


So Anderson did better then both for his 23yo year and shouldnt have much trouble this year for the start of his 24yo season. Blew Granlund out of the water. Its good they converted him to wing because he couldnt handle the 2 way game and salvaged him.

 

[mikeyp24]

Is that actually what you think? Assists are meaningless? Why do players even pass the puck then? Clearly the only important part of being a good hockey player is their shot... right?

I mean shoot, if goal totals are the only thing determining who’s a better player, I guess Zucker is better than Panarin. Specifically using your logic to draw that conclusion, of course.

Primary assists and Goals are what matters offensively wise if you care about just stats which it is apparently getting clearer and clearer you are a stats guy that only cares about the box score. Panarin isnt good because his point totals. Panarin is a Selke caliber forward who will jever get recognized because for some reason people lump face offs in there. Panarin was a takeaway machine and directly lead to probably 100 scoring chances from his back checking. He isnt good because a shot or pass but because he can move with the puck and hild it long enough to create space.

Id say watch a game to see with your eyes who is better out of the 4 but im sure you would rather search corsi then watch and see who has an qctual inpact that will never be seen in stats.

 

[Melkor]

We WOULD trade a rental Panarin for them. If those 2 were offered for unsigned Panarin at the TDL we would do it likely. But that isnt the offer. Panarin isnt being shopped as a rental. Idk how hard it is to get that when every cbj fan has pointed out we dont mind him walking. We are only trading for a rental if they pay us the he is signed price amd we will trade him signed.

Also people arent making the offer of those 2 wingers for bread its bread AND Anderson. Anderson is not available especially for non upgrades. Those players likely dont produce at the same pace as Anderson in this system. No player will stand out if you look at points on cbj. We spread them out everywhere. Thats why we consistently have guys in the 25 to 30 goal range but they get no credit because we dont live on secondary assists like others.

You aint qualified to trade nobody. Its Kekkalainen who is. So you speaking from his name right now? Maybe CBJ' fans are okay with their superstar walking away for nothing (that's really dumb but okay) but I don't think the club is. They will try to get as much as possible. I'd bet some money that Panarin is gonna be moved before the next summer. As a rental or not

Also Anderson doesnt produce jack. He's as average of a player at the NHL level as anyone could get so nobody here buys into your attempts to pump his tires. He's basically a throw in in a trade of Panarin-Granlund caliber.

 

[mikeyp24]

You aint qualified to trade nobody. Its Kekkalainen who is. So you speaking from his name right now? Maybe CBJ' fans are okay with their superstar walking away for nothing (that's really dumb but okay) but I don't think the club is. They will try to get as much as possible. I'd bet some money that Panarin is gonna be moved before the next summer. As a rental or not

Also Anderson doesnt produce jack. He's as average of a player at the NHL level as anyone could get so nobody here buys into your attempts to pump his tires. He's basically a throw in in a trade of Panarin-Granlund caliber.

Want to wager he isnt dealt without an extension or a price that would look like he was signed ala Wahlstrom+?? Because I will wager that he isnt moved as a rental and a 1st+B prospect price that people think he will be apparently. And Im speaking based on what JK has said over and over. If someone wants moved he is willing to move you but only if it helps the team. If the team doesnt get back a win in a deal they just wont do it... look at JMFJ last year. They could have moved him for a 4th or later but it wasnt worth moving him of the parts coming back arent better then us keeping the guy and renting him to ourself.

You should speak on whatever little it is you might know and talk about that rather then look silly talking here. The CBJ have the 2 best players in the deal... the throw ins sadly in this case wear green.