Friedman: Jackets testing market for Panarin

[steveat]

holy flipping ****ing g-ddamned hell ONE POST ABOVE YOU

Yeah..noticed it...sorry was trying to help out. I think the only legit team would be Vegas..MAYBE SJ

I just don't get why Panarin doesn't feel CBJ are contenders? I think you're one good centre away from a good playoff run.

 

[Viqsi]

Yeah..noticed it...sorry was trying to help out. I think the only legit team would be Vegas..MAYBE SJ

I just don't get why Panarin doesn't feel CBJ are contenders? I think you're one good centre away from a good playoff run.

The bolded is probably a misapprehension, that's why. All we know is that he doesn't want to sign right now; we don't genuinely know the actual reason or intention. Some elements of tone (the fact that he wanted to keep the org informed early, his repeated assertions - even as part of the notification - that he thinks the org and Kekalainen and Torts have been good and awesome, et cetera) suggest that what he's really after is a much bigger contract - whether that be a desire to see what someone like Tavares gets, or confidence that he can do even better next year and thus get even more, nobody knows. Kekalainen's quotes suggest that this is what he thinks is going on as well, and so that's what most Jackets fans here are going by. (I say "most" because, y'know, cliffjumpers - and nearly all of the cliffjumpers here on HF are staying on the Jackets board, thankfully.)

The "he doesn't feel the Jackets are contenders" bit comes from a likely faulty earlier-in-the-logical-chain presumption that this was a roundabout way of making a trade request. Which is not impossible, but what little we know does not match that.


As for legit trade partners... there's potentially several if one includes the Replace With Brute Force 2-for-1 option; I keep pushing it not so much because it's my favorite approach (I want either "he stays" or a direct replacement) but because it seems the one most likely to result in discussions that manage to keep all potential participants as happy and reasonable as possible.

 

[Dbrownss]

It's futures. We need now. So yes, it's bad. Because all the value is in futures, and we do not need futures. We need now. Not futures. Now.

There's 2 now pieces in that deal. I'll assume you want a lateral deal which makes sense. Who are those teams? Ottawa with Duchene and Stone? If Panarin isnt willing to extend in Columbus, I'd wager he laughs at Ottawa and that deals dead. Same with a deal around Skinner, if staying in Columbus isnt appealing then I cant see Carolina being an option.

If Panarin leaves Columbus, Columbus is going to be a worse team at least in the short term, I cant imagine a scenario otherwise.

 

[Viqsi]

There's 2 now pieces in that deal.

There's one, and it's the one y'all called the "middle 6 center" but I wouldn't give either of Berglund or Sobotka that much credit. Unless you expect Thomas to have a Barzal-like debut literally next year, he's not a "now" piece. I like what I've heard about him but I don't think he's that good that quickly.

If Panarin leaves Columbus, Columbus is going to be a worse team at least in the short term, I cant imagine a scenario otherwise.

Quite probably. But frankly we're better off as a team with him as our "rental" than we are with dumping him for Mediocre And Futures.

 

[Dbrownss]

There's one, and it's the one y'all called the "middle 6 center" but I wouldn't give either of Berglund or Sobotka that much credit. Unless you expect Thomas to have a Barzal-like debut literally next year, he's not a "now" piece. I like what I've heard about him but I don't think he's that good that quickly.


Quite probably. But frankly we're better off as a team with him as our "rental" than we are with dumping him for Mediocre And Futures.

Barzal like....who knows.... I wouldn't bank on it, but I'd heavily lean towards a notable contributor. As for Berglund/Sobokta, I wasn't implying they would be more then meh fillers because that's what they are.


If keeping him and losing him for nothing is an acceptable outcome, ok then.

 

[Viqsi]

If keeping him and losing him for nothing is an acceptable outcome, ok then.

Acceptable? Hardly. Very little of this is acceptable. It's more of a "which disaster is the least disastrous" thing.

 

[Dbrownss]

Acceptable? Hardly. Very little of this is acceptable. It's more of a "which disaster is the least disastrous" thing.

Fair enough. I get that its frustrating, because imo I'm not buying he's waiting to see what Tavares and the like are getting before discussing an extension. If that was the case, there's we wouldn't have heard about any of this. That's a small window to wait, not what's been implied.

Personally I cant imagine a GM would allow an asset such as Panarin to potentially walk, which it sounds like Jarmo is exploring that at least.

 

[Viqsi]

I get that its frustrating, because imo I'm not buying he's waiting to see what Tavares and the like are getting before discussing an extension. If that was the case, there's we wouldn't have heard about any of this.

I'm not so sure. This organization isn't exactly known for its lack of leaks.

 

[kgboomer]

Let's combine some of these rumors.

Ryan O'Reilly for Panarin!

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Dbrownss]

I'm not so sure. This organization isn't exactly known for its lack of leaks.

I'm not really familiar with ya'lls office and writers so I'll take your word on it. Although Jarmo taking calls on him has to be troubling, no?

 

[Viqsi]

I'm not really familiar with ya'lls office and writers so I'll take your word on it. Although Jarmo taking calls on him has to be troubling, no?

I think of it more as due diligence. Insurance against the worst.

It's not exactly making folks happy around here that this is going on, but some of us are attempting to take it in stride. Real panic points (variable depending on the Jackets fan in question, and presuming this goes on that long) will be July 1, mid-October, the trade deadline, and this time next year.

 

[Stealth JD]

How many different times and how many different ways are we going to have to turn down Fabbri + Kyrou for Panarin before folks start taking notice?
This is going to be the Perpetual Proposal for him, isn't it?

And that first proposal is even worse. It's almost entirely futures plus only one roster player of marginal value.

Sorry to break it to you, hon...but that offer is very much in line with what your own media expects to receive in any trade:

If Kekalainen must trade Panarin, the Blue Jackets need to acquire a top-six forward in return and a top forward prospect. The Blue Jackets aren’t rebuilding, so multiple first-round picks can’t be the centerpiece of a deal.

Just because you don't like it, or don't know the players involved, it doesn't make it a crap offer. Fabbri IS a top-6 forward. Kyrou IS a top-6 prospect. When the trade deadline rolls around and Panarin hasn't signed, Jarmo would be thrilled with such an offer.

The first offer gives you a blue-chip, NHL-ready top-Center prospect, in addition to a 20-goal player and 1st round pick. Oh the horror...the horror!

 

[Crede777]

Sorry to break it to you, hon...but that offer is very much in line with what your own media expects to receive in any trade:

Just because you don't like it, or don't know the players involved, it doesn't make it a crap offer. Fabbri IS a top-6 forward. Kyrou IS a top-6 prospect. When the trade deadline rolls around and Panarin hasn't signed, Jarmo would be thrilled with such an offer.

The first offer gives you a blue-chip, NHL-ready top-Center prospect, in addition to a 20-goal player and 1st round pick. Oh the horror...the horror!

Calling Fabbri a top-6 is stretching it. That same media said that Ryan O'Reilly is a decent piece but there would need to be more just for the 1 year of Panarin.

Also based on what he supposedly wants, I think Panarin would walk in free agency from St. Louis and Tarasenko for either NYC or LA. Supposedly he doesn't care about contending, money, or even playing with friends. Rather he wants to live in one of the big cities mentioned.

 

[Dbrownss]

Calling Fabbri a top-6 is stretching it. That same media said that Ryan O'Reilly is a decent piece but there would need to be more just for the 1 year of Panarin.

Also based on what he supposedly wants, I think Panarin would walk in free agency from St. Louis and Tarasenko for either NYC or LA. Supposedly he doesn't care about contending, money, or even playing with friends. Rather he wants to live in one of the big cities mentioned.

Unless his knee is gone, I'd be confident in saying he's a top 6 forward. His game wasnt just built around skating. His shot and vision are top notch. He would absolutely be a wild card trade chip though.

 

[Crede777]

Unless his knee is gone, I'd be confident in saying he's a top 6 forward. His game wasnt just built around skating. His shot and vision are top notch. He would absolutely be a wild card trade chip though.

I think Fabbri + is the type of package the Jackets would look to take at the TDL rather than at the draft.

I could be 100% wrong of course, Kekkalainen doesn't give away much and isn't shy about taking trades he thinks are good despite what others think.

However, one area where I do think that I differ from Kekkalainen is in how I view the upcoming season. For me, if you had to ask if I'd trade a top-6 + top prospect from the CBJ roster to acquire Panarin for one season, I would say yes provided the top-6 player was a winger. Given the Jackets' status as a playoff team, and their belief that they're not far away from being in the Pittsburgh/Capitals/Tampa Bay territory in the East, I think 1 year of Panarin is well worth the return.

 

[CBJx614]

What if we package Panarin with a couple other pieces. Jarmo likes to make a lot of one for one deals so I could see that happening, but if Jarmo wants to add another true core player I wouldn't be opposed to putting together a package to get us exactly who we want.

Panarin
Milano/prospect
2018/19 first

 

[cslebn]

Sorry to break it to you, hon...but that offer is very much in line with what your own media expects to receive in any trade:

Just because you don't like it, or don't know the players involved, it doesn't make it a crap offer. Fabbri IS a top-6 forward. Kyrou IS a top-6 prospect. When the trade deadline rolls around and Panarin hasn't signed, Jarmo would be thrilled with such an offer.

The first offer gives you a blue-chip, NHL-ready top-Center prospect, in addition to a 20-goal player and 1st round pick. Oh the horror...the horror!

The issue you have with that is most CBJ don't think highly of Aaron Portzline at all. He tends to have zero to even less inside information and rarely breaks a story before real, league-wide insiders. AP has been speculating on this a lot but really isn't sourcing anything it would seem. I may be wrong but I know I have zero faith in what he writes other than for entertainment value.

As for Fabbri, Kyrou and a 1st (didn't think you offered a first...... but that's what you indicated in the next paragraph you wrote), wasn't Fabbri in essence injured for much year? I think there's a risk with that. His rate metrics aren't bad and it's nice his FO% increased but he doesn't seem much different really from what we have in Wennberg (admittedly having not watched his play much at all). Kyrou looks to have produces well in the OHL but also was an older player there. Not going to disagree he's a blue chip.

Like Viqsi, I don't think there's an urgency till the end of summer.

 

[Stealth JD]

The issue you have with that is most CBJ don't think highly of Aaron Portzline at all. He tends to have zero to even less inside information and rarely breaks a story before real, league-wide insiders. AP has been speculating on this a lot but really isn't sourcing anything it would seem. I may be wrong but I know I have zero faith in what he writes other than for entertainment value.

As for Fabbri, Kyrou and a 1st (didn't think you offered a first...... but that's what you indicated in the next paragraph you wrote), wasn't Fabbri in essence injured for much year? I think there's a risk with that. His rate metrics aren't bad and it's nice his FO% increased but he doesn't seem much different really from what we have in Wennberg (admittedly having not watched his play much at all). Kyrou looks to have produces well in the OHL but also was an older player there. Not going to disagree he's a blue chip.

Like Viqsi, I don't think there's an urgency till the end of summer.

That was Tom Reed, not Portzline...though I don't know if that's any better or worse. I think STL has some interesting pieces for CBJ, expecially if the deal were expanded to help unclog some of the LHD log-jam going on in Columbus. Blues prospect pool is at or near the very top of the league (heading into the draft, anyway).

 

[Viqsi]

Sorry to break it to you, hon...but that offer is very much in line with what your own media expects to receive in any trade:

Just because you don't like it, or don't know the players involved, it doesn't make it a crap offer. Fabbri IS a top-6 forward. Kyrou IS a top-6 prospect.

Fabbri WOULD BE a top-6 forward if he could actually stay on the ice, and don't try and pretend that that isn't exactly why y'all have any willingness whatsoever to trade him. Kyrou IS NOT someone who can play next year. Prospects aren't the issue - we need roster guys for this to be viable.

 

[lilfedor]

What if we package Panarin with a couple other pieces. Jarmo likes to make a lot of one for one deals so I could see that happening, but if Jarmo wants to add another true core player I wouldn't be opposed to putting together a package to get us exactly who we want.

Panarin
Milano/prospect
2018/19 first

How about Panarin + Dubinsky. At least this opens up our cap issue and gets rid of that albatross contract.

If not, hate to say it but..., trade your captain and appoint your new leadership group in Jones, Z, etc...

 

[Stealth JD]

I don't think any Blues' fans "want" to trade Fabbri. We've seen his talent and know the impact he can have on the ice. He's apparently going to be ready for the start of the season and there's no reason to think he won't return to the line-up. He's definitely slated in the Blues top-6 as things stand today. The only reason he's seemingly being' pushed' in the trade proposals is because the Blues don't really have any other talented, young forwards who are of proven-NHL quality that would be of interest to other teams. Schenn, Schwartz & Tarasenko are their core up-front. Barbashev, Jaskin, Sanford and the likes carry little value...it's really only Fabbri, and the young top-prospects (of whom the Blues have many). Fabbri & Kyrou could both be 60-point players throughout their careers. The former would be more likely than the latter...but Kyrou's skill-set is evident and a seemingly perfect fit for the way the NHL-game is trending. That would be a big loss to the Blues system.

 

[Boxscore]

Every year leading into the draft, there's all this nonsense chatter about "blockbuster trades" to build up hype. And, every year, fans are mostly underwhelmed while the writers rest on their "well, big trades are hard to make but this almost happened..." taglines.

 

[TheGoldenGod]

Fabbri will have plenty of injuries throughout his career due to his size and playing style.

 

[Viqsi]

I don't think any Blues' fans "want" to trade Fabbri. We've seen his talent and know the impact he can have on the ice. He's apparently going to be ready for the start of the season and there's no reason to think he won't return to the line-up. He's definitely slated in the Blues top-6 as things stand today. The only reason he's seemingly being' pushed' in the trade proposals is because the Blues don't really have any other talented, young forwards who are of proven-NHL quality that would be of interest to other teams. Schenn, Schwartz & Tarasenko are their core up-front. Barbashev, Jaskin, Sanford and the likes carry little value...it's really only Fabbri, and the young top-prospects (of whom the Blues have many). Fabbri & Kyrou could both be 60-point players throughout their careers. The former would be more likely than the latter...but Kyrou's skill-set is evident and a seemingly perfect fit for the way the NHL-game is trending. That would be a big loss to the Blues system.

Maybe I should put it this way - I don't doubt that those two together, in a best-case scenario in which Kyrou reaches his potential and Fabbri stays healthy, would do just fine as a replacement. It's the fact that there's two large "if"s there that makes it Not Okay. The vociferously negative response comes from the fact that this Not Okay proposal keeps popping up repeatedly like a bad penny. It's not Hemsky-for-Johansen level bad, but so far it's showing similar persistence.

EDIT: Should also note that it's the sort of thing we'd be much more willing to do if we were more certain Panarin did not want to stay in Columbus no matter what. That's not the case right now.

 

[cslebn]

That was Tom Reed, not Portzline...though I don't know if that's any better or worse.

My mistake. Reed was with the Dispatch at the same time as Portz. Portz was the beat writer while Reed did more opinion pieces. I'm not going to say either of them got it right most (little) of the time. Nice guys though.

Fabbri WOULD BE a top-6 forward if he could actually stay on the ice, and don't try and pretend that that isn't exactly why y'all have any willingness whatsoever to trade him. Kyrou IS NOT someone who can play next year. Prospects aren't the issue - we need roster guys for this to be viable.

Do you almost feel like Fabbri might be an analog for Murray?