Jackets better with Joey than Jones? (circa 2019-20)

EspenK

Registered User
Sep 25, 2011
15,581
4,147
Most here agree that we'd rather have Jones than Joey. But does that make the Jackets a better team given the current roster construct?

Nyqvist-PLD-Cam
Tex-Joey-Bjorkstrand

Zach-Nuti
Murray-Savard
Harrington-Gavrikov

or

Nyqvist-PLD-Cam
Tex/Foligno-JennerWennie-Bjorkstrand

Zach-Jones
Murray-Savard
Gavrikov-Nuti

I think too often we look at the individual involved in a trade rather than the impact on team as a whole.

I'm not sure about the choice above. If we had a more established G I think I'd go for having Joey. With an unproven G I guess I;d give a slight edge to the Jones option.
 

Jackets16

Registered User
Jan 7, 2005
12,018
619
This is so simple. NO!

1 - We are a better team with Jones.
2 - You ignore how PLD would have developed if Johansen was on the team. PLD wouldn't have been given the ice time or situations he has up to this point. Also, you ignore what having Jones has done for the defense. It has allowed everyone to play in their proper spots and develop. Who knows how good certain defenders would be if they weren't allowed to develop on lower pairings against easier competition.
 

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
33,347
14,026
Exurban Cbus
I think too often we look at the individual involved in a trade rather than the impact on team as a whole.

Agreed. Are we prepared to discuss alternate realities where, because the trade was never made, it's possible, even likely, that the Jackets don't draft/sign/trade for any of the players that have joined the roster since then?

So we need to allow for any/all of the team's draft picks since 2016 to be different than the ones selected, so let's have a permutation where there's no PLD and no Texier. Or different permutations leaving out one each of those players.

Maybe Wennberg gets traded instead after his good year, for a D man not at Jones' potential but a top 4 guy for sure who's still on the roster. What does that look like?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Viqsi and Jackets16

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
42,076
24,004
I think it's a no. Jones is one of the best defenseman in the world, on a great contract, and although Joey would make our center situation a lot better, we would have a gaping hole at RD that Savard wouldn't be good enough to cover.

I'll take Jones, but we absolutely need another center.
 

JacketsDavid

Registered User
Jan 11, 2013
2,640
882
Putting aside the timeline issues DSL raised, I think it's easier to think whether you'd trade Jones for Johansen straight up right now. Easy no for me.
Only way I would make that trade is to get a guy locked up thru 2024-25.
But talent wise no way do I trade Jones for him unless we know Jones won't resign.
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
24,179
28,651
I'm already on record saying that Dubois - Jenner is a decent 1-2 set at center, with Dubois and Texier both having a lot of room to grow at center ice. And I'm on record that Johansen is an overpaid pain in the ass. Johansen is about the 20th-25th best center in the league. People talk about him here as if he went on to bigger and better things after Columbus, when he's actually regressed. So there wouldn't be much reason to trade a lot of value for Johansen, and certainly not half enough reason to trade Jones, who could easily get you a top 10 center if you wanted one that badly. Even ignoring trade value - where Jones is worth perhaps double Johansen - and just looking at positional need, I don't think you'd do this deal. We wouldn't want a Johansen - Tortorella reunion.

We could discuss trading Jones for an actual top center. I know it's sacrilegious to mention it but Matthews for Jones makes sense in some ways. We can fit the player cap wise, for one, with the huge cap difference being why Matthews would be even attainable. And I happen to like our defense enough that I'd be confident in it even if it was without Jones.

Werenski - Savard
Murray - Nutivaara
Gavrikov - Kukan/Peeke

If Werenski grows like I think he will I expect that would still be a solidly above average D corps.
 

KJ Dangler

Registered User
Oct 21, 2006
8,272
4,941
Columbus
In the most respectful manner, awful thread. Not remotely a contest . Not 1 gm in this league would take Joey over Jones.

Now if were discussing team need, yes we need a #2C, or 1bC, but I'm sending every player on this team as a trade canidate befor Jones. The real question is with all this depth on Defense, what is the best return we can get for Werenski ?
 

EspenK

Registered User
Sep 25, 2011
15,581
4,147
In the most respectful manner, awful thread. Not remotely a contest . Not 1 gm in this league would take Joey over Jones.

Now if were discussing team need, yes we need a #2C, or 1bC, but I'm sending every player on this team as a trade canidate befor Jones. The real question is with all this depth on Defense, what is the best return we can get for Werenski ?

With all due respect, you, like almost all others, have missed the point of the thread. It was not a should we trade Jones for Joey, it was simply all other things being equal which would the better lineup for 2019-20. Once again I am truly amazed at the internet, you ask what time is it? and you get answers ranging from Monday to what time zone are you in?. oh, well.
 

Monk

Registered User
Feb 5, 2008
7,495
5,392
With all due respect, you, like almost all others, have missed the point of the thread. It was not a should we trade Jones for Joey, it was simply all other things being equal which would the better lineup for 2019-20. Once again I am truly amazed at the internet, you ask what time is it? and you get answers ranging from Monday to what time zone are you in?. oh, well.

I believe I understand what the point of this thread is and it's still an easy no for me.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,660
30,951
40N 83W (approx)
Agreed. Are we prepared to discuss alternate realities where, because the trade was never made, it's possible, even likely, that the Jackets don't draft/sign/trade for any of the players that have joined the roster since then?

So we need to allow for any/all of the team's draft picks since 2016 to be different than the ones selected, so let's have a permutation where there's no PLD and no Texier. Or different permutations leaving out one each of those players.

Maybe Wennberg gets traded instead after his good year, for a D man not at Jones' potential but a top 4 guy for sure who's still on the roster. What does that look like?
Well, before the Jones-Joey trade I was pushing hard for trading Wennberg for Ryan Ellis...
 

Cyclones Rock

Registered User
Jun 12, 2008
10,482
6,370
With all due respect, you, like almost all others, have missed the point of the thread. It was not a should we trade Jones for Joey, it was simply all other things being equal which would the better lineup for 2019-20. Once again I am truly amazed at the internet, you ask what time is it? and you get answers ranging from Monday to what time zone are you in?. oh, well.

Eastern Time Zone. I think. It is 844 pm EST.

The last two versions of the CBJ snuck into the playoffs due to 3 on 3 OT wins.

I don't really know which version was better, but the last two teams were bubble teams which had everything go their way to get into the post season.
 

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
33,347
14,026
Exurban Cbus
Eastern Time Zone. I think. It is 844 pm EST.

The last two versions of the CBJ snuck into the playoffs due to 3 on 3 OT wins.

I don't really know which version was better, but the last two teams were bubble teams which had everything go their way to get into the post season.

So no Joey and no Panarin, with Saad and Gagner? We're asking the wrong question, I guess.
 

MoeBartoli

Checkers-to-Jackets
Jan 12, 2011
13,944
10,150
Put me down for being better off with Seth, despite our hole at a second top 6 center. This is in no way to denegrate RyJo, but Jones is:
* a more significant a game changer for us,
* eats huge minutes,
* has enabled Werenski to log top pair minutes (no, he wouldn't have if paired with anyone else),
* higher-rated player,
* has more trade value if we chose another direction
* better contract

.....just my take on it.
 

EDM

Registered User
Mar 8, 2008
6,221
2,003
If we are ever able to get rid of Wennberg, I hoe there will be no new threads that would keep bringing his name back on this Board.
 

EDM

Registered User
Mar 8, 2008
6,221
2,003
And I think the title of the thread would be: “Weren’t We Really Lucky to Get a Whole Bag of Pucks for Pooh”
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->