Prospect Info: Jack Quinn, RW (8th overall, 2020) -- Ottawa 67s (3 year ELC signed 11/16)

[Zman5778]

These Wheeler lists are garbage, this moron put Mittelstadt first.

I thought it was Pronman who put Mitts first, not Wheeler?

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I thought it was Pronman who put Mitts first, not Wheeler?

That's what I remember, but Wheeler loved him too:

The Gifted: Sabres super-prospect Casey Mittelstadt a playmaker in the truest sense

2017 NHL Draft Profile: The dynamic dominance of Casey Mittelstadt

 

[Fjordy]

I thought it was Pronman who put Mitts first, not Wheeler?

Hmm, maybe I confused them?

Although this list is very strange:



#6 - Holtz
#8 - Cozens
#13 - Kaprizov
#17 - Kaliyev
#48 - Quinn
#49 - Sanderson

Really?

 

[Reddawg]

I’m not having any trouble putting zero stock in that list.

 

[Paxon]

Not in the draft, though. The top prospect lists are usually way worse than draft lists. They are dominated by players who had good WJCs.

Didn't realize that's exactly what is being referred to. My bad.

 

[Woodhouse]

You mean the guy who has played hockey for way longer, who was much more physically developed, and from what I've read played with two pretty good overagers instead of a rookie and a ~6th round pick? Same guy.

Idk if it ever got detailed in here or in draft discussions, but just to further the context of the quoted post...

The 67's drafted Rossi in the import draft out of NLB/pro and put him into a great situation for junior success by surrounding him with veteran offensive talent in both seasons. His most common icemates would amount to Felhaber, Keating, and Hoefenmayer in DY-1 and then Gareffa, Keating, and Hoefenmayer in his DY. That's three fifth-year OHL veterans (aka overagers) and very established point producers in his draft eligible season, while the previous year had two of those same guys (but only as fourth-year vets) and an interchangeable established fifth-year OA.

Everyone Rossi routinely played with could chip in on attack with regularity via their combinations of maturity, experience, and skill in comparison to the average OHL'er. That doesn't negate that his raw talents meshed perfectly with that juggernaut of a unit, but it should at least give fans context before simply citing his counting numbers in comparison to other eligibles from vastly different environments. If Rossi had more inconsistent or inexperienced icemates, the argument is that his numbers would dip some since veterans aren't starting or finishing off as many plays.

It's not like Quinn didn't drive the play of the 67's second line either, creating plenty of EV scoring chances and goals alongside a fourth-year vet Hoelscher (statistically similar year to Pekar) and an OHL rookie Beck. He was previously paired with middling second-year players in Bitten and Yule for his DY-1 season in Ottawa's bottom six. That is a bit different icemates and trajectories to consider.

 

[jc17]

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Jim Bob]

Hockey is a late development sport.

This shouldn't be news to anyone that has been paying attention to the data that both USA Hockey and Hockey Canada have been putting out for years.

More

What's wrong with the way it was?

For starters, many athletes spent too much time traveling, competing and recovering from competition and not enough time preparing for it. Second, there was too heavy a focus on the scoreboard result rather than the performance and individual skill development. This attitude led often to long-term failure, as coaches de-prioritized the development of skills to focus on specific game tactics. And third, too many athletes were specializing too early. An early focus on just one or two sports often led to injuries, burnout and capped athletic potential.

The challenge has been the fact that entrepreneurs that want to make money off of youth sports use FOMO to get parents to specialize their kids as early as possible to maximize revenue.

 

[jc17]

Hockey is a late development sport.

This shouldn't be news to anyone that has been paying attention to the data that both USA Hockey and Hockey Canada have been putting out for years.

More



The challenge has been the fact that entrepreneurs that want to make money off of youth sports use FOMO to get parents to specialize their kids as early as possible to maximize revenue.

I don't think it's necessarily about companies and money. A kid specializing at an early age definitely has an advantage over one that doesnt, for some period of time. So it opens doors for athletes that may not have had them if they specialized later. Its more like parents want to give their kid every possible opportunities to look good and gain exposure.

But regardless of the guilty party, I don't think the burnout information is anything new, but athletes specializing after 16 being "far more likely to be elite " is something I've never seen or heard. I'd be interested to see the data. I've observed a little bit of this in a different sport but wouldn't have expected to see it have as much impact in hockey.

 

[Jim Bob]

I don't think it's necessarily about companies and money. A kid specializing at an early age definitely has an advantage over one that doesnt, for some period of time. So it opens doors for athletes that may not have had them if they specialized later. Its more like parents want to give their kid every possible opportunities to look good and gain exposure.

But regardless of the guilty party, I don't think the burnout information is anything new, but athletes specializing after 16 being "far more likely to be elite " is something I've never seen or heard. I'd be interested to see the data. I've observed a little bit of this in a different sport but wouldn't have expected to see it have as much impact in hockey.

As someone who has been through the youth sports system with multiple kids, the push to get kids to specialize is absolutely from the club sports entrepreneurs, along with the specialty coaches.

They prey on parents' FOMO and desire to do whatever they can to help their kids be the best that they can be.

Parents don't want to hear about the long game and overall athlete development. That's why you see kids going to extra skills sessions instead of the weight room when getting stronger, more athletic, and more durable is what so many kids need and not another skills session.

 

[joshjull]

I don't think it's necessarily about companies and money. A kid specializing at an early age definitely has an advantage over one that doesnt, for some period of time. So it opens doors for athletes that may not have had them if they specialized later. Its more like parents want to give their kid every possible opportunities to look good and gain exposure.

But regardless of the guilty party, I don't think the burnout information is anything new, but athletes specializing after 16 being "far more likely to be elite " is something I've never seen or heard. I'd be interested to see the data. I've observed a little bit of this in a different sport but wouldn't have expected to see it have as much impact in hockey.

If I had to guess, it could be as simple as those players are amazing natural athletes to begin with. They’d have to be to be able to play multiple high level youth sports into their teens. They would be up against a lot of kids in each sport who have been specializing for some time.

One of the girls I coached in hockey played a lot of sports right through high school. She ranged from good to really good in each of them. She played hockey for fun and missed a lot of practices and even some games over the years due to commitments to the higher priority sports for her. She also never went to any hockey clinics. Yet she still led us in goals every year and was one of our best players. Had she made hockey her one and only sport. I have zero doubt should would have played D1 hockey. As it is she’s playing D1 softball which was her top sport along with track.

 

[jc17]

If I had to guess, it could be as simple as those players are amazing natural athletes to begin with. They’d have to be to be able to play multiple high level youth sports into their teens. They would be up against a lot of kids in each sport who have been specializing for some time.

One of the girls I coached in hockey played a lot of sports right through high school. She ranged from good to really good in each of them. She played hockey for fun and missed a lot of practices and even some games over the years due to commitments to the higher priority sports for her. She also never went to any hockey clinics. Yet she still led us in goals every year and was one of our best players. Had she made hockey her one and only sport. I have zero doubt should would have played D1 hockey. As it is she’s playing D1 softball which was her top sport along with track.

Yeah that makes sense. I think the key is the "multiple high level sports" like you mention. In my coaching experience, kids who were very athletic but not specialized were always sought after. That said, for every great athlete that was naturally good and could play multiple sports well, there were athletes that played multiple and were average or below at all of them (like me). But I guess at certain level if you're average or below average you can't play. Whereas if you're playing in the OHL without specializing there's got to be some strong talent. So I would imagine the "multi sport athletes being more likely to be elite" has to consider a certain level of competition.

 

[Doanator]

Idk if it ever got detailed in here or in draft discussions, but just to further the context of the quoted post...

The 67's drafted Rossi in the import draft out of NLB/pro and put him into a great situation for junior success by surrounding him with veteran offensive talent in both seasons. His most common icemates would amount to Felhaber, Keating, and Hoefenmayer in DY-1 and then Gareffa, Keating, and Hoefenmayer in his DY. That's three fifth-year OHL veterans (aka overagers) and very established point producers in his draft eligible season, while the previous year had two of those same guys (but only as fourth-year vets) and an interchangeable established fifth-year OA.

Everyone Rossi routinely played with could chip in on attack with regularity via their combinations of maturity, experience, and skill in comparison to the average OHL'er. That doesn't negate that his raw talents meshed perfectly with that juggernaut of a unit, but it should at least give fans context before simply citing his counting numbers in comparison to other eligibles from vastly different environments. If Rossi had more inconsistent or inexperienced icemates, the argument is that his numbers would dip some since veterans aren't starting or finishing off as many plays.

It's not like Quinn didn't drive the play of the 67's second line either, creating plenty of EV scoring chances and goals alongside a fourth-year vet Hoelscher (statistically similar year to Pekar) and an OHL rookie Beck. He was previously paired with middling second-year players in Bitten and Yule for his DY-1 season in Ottawa's bottom six. That is a bit different icemates and trajectories to consider.

There is nothing to disagree with, but in the end Rossi is still the much better player.

Rossi missed several games due to an injury in his D-1 and a suspension last season. He could have produced even better overall numbers, already in hos rookie year.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

There is nothing to disagree with, but in the end Rossi is still the much better player.

"Much better" is debatable

For how much longer is the question

 

[UnleashRasmus]

Here's hoping he produces. That's all I care about. If he comes in and puts up solid numbers and his work on his skating shows strides, then this could work out. I still will never like the pick as he is the byproduct of Rossi. Note: I would have taken Lundell over him as well.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Here's hoping he produces. That's all I care about. If he comes in and puts up solid numbers and his work on his skating shows strides, then this could work out. I still will never like the pick as he is the byproduct of Rossi. Note: I would have taken Lundell over him as well.

Explain how he's the by-product of Rossi when they played on separate lines except for the powerplay, on which Quinn only earned 6 points with Rossi. Quinn was at the top of OHL even strength goals, zero of which came thanks to Rossi. Now if you want to argue that Quinn was more scouted thanks to people coming to see Rossi, then you'd have an argument

 

[Fjordy]

New Pastaaaaaa

 

[Orange Fanta]

Explain how he's the by-product of Rossi when they played on separate lines except for the powerplay, on which Quinn only earned 6 points with Rossi. Quinn was at the top of OHL even strength goals, zero of which came thanks to Rossi. Now if you want to argue that Quinn was more scouted thanks to people coming to see Rossi, then you'd have an argument

Maybe he means he didn't face as tough competition as rossi?

 

[HaNotsri]

"Much better" is debatable

For how much longer is the question

My guess is that Rossi will continue to improve for a long time. The sacrifices his father made set a standard. I'd really want players with that kind of background and drive on the Sabres. Learning how to practice and improve is a skill itself.

 

[Sabre the Win]

I'm amazed at how much the boards think Adams is returded

7 other teams passed on him, if he is the next ROR or Drury the board thinks he is than we aren't alone in messing that up and he probably should have been 2nd Overall

 

[BurntToast]

Hello Sabers Fans,

(I like to creep on other fans’ pages) As fans we seem to careless about what we have and more on what we missed. The primary goal of a media scout is to generate “hits”. When it comes to the draft they are more likely to be wrong. Most of these guys have 10-12 mock drafts/rankings by the time the draft takes place. “Best player Available” sounds great but it’s literally impossible to prove. Rossi is a great center, with two-way ability but some question his upside. He has to be a center or he loses a lot of his value. Quinn is considered one of the best shooters/goal scorers in this draft. While some see his rise negatively, others see it as upside. Predicting one’s future talent is still the hardest job in sports.

 

[Jim Bob]

We know who Vanek would have taken.

 

[DJN21]

Good for Vanek. Ill always have a soft spot for him.

I wanted rossi or Lundell but after doing more video watching and research im fine with this pick.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

I will say this....there is definitely a premium on right hand shooting players, especially at D and C. Wing not so much but considering we only have 1 proven top 9 right handed winger I can start accepting the Quinn pick more. As he is older then a lot of his draft mates maybe he also can be NHL ready sooner. One year playing juniors/overseas and then the following year either makes the Sabres in 21/22 right from camp or goes to Roch as first callup.

Nearly 62% of the league is a LH shot. Having a premier goal scoring RH shot would be nice to have.