Jack Johnson

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#37

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And now from a completely different perspective.

We have almost 0 coverage of this tournament here in the states, When I go seeking news-he is the first thing I read about my countrys minor hockey program. In a Canadian paper. Sorry, but I don't feel properly represented to the world and it will be a sad day when this disgrace becomes a team leader of the U.S. Olympic team.

He is just another "ugly American", in a long tradition of "ugly Americans". Remember, It costs more to feed their dogs than you. Hotel room trashing at the Olympics. Showing up obese to training camp. Walking out on your team to grab a bite to eat.... As an American, I envy Canada for its Sakic's and Yzerman's.

And people wonder why the NHL suffers in the US. But I am from the south, what do I know...
 
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Jaded-Fan

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I can't believe this kind of tripe is coming out of a global mod, lots of college kids opt for another year when offered professional contracts or promises to play in the NHL. Unsubstantiated accusations and senseless bashing serves to the betterment of no one.

Mods can't have opinions, even controversial ones? I am not necessarily in agreement with all that he said, but I see nothing wrong with any of it. And believe me I have been on the other side of the opinion fence with some of the Canes Mods on some issues (Orpik -Coles . . .*cough, cough* . . .or on the JJ trade issue before it happened) and did not agree at all, but there is nothing wrong with that.
 

Herby

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Another funny sidenote.

He had a Jack Johnson avatar for quite some time following the 2005 draft.

I wonder if Blues fans will have the same reaction if EJ opts to stay another year with the Gophers, talk about sour grapes.

I never thought I'd see the day someone was criticized for staying in school.
 

haelwho

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We have almost 0 coverage of this tournament here in the states, When I go seeking news-he is the first thing I read about my countries minor hockey program. In a Canadian paper. Sorry, but I don't feel properly represented to the world and it will be a sad day when he becomes a team leader of the U.S. men's nation Olympics team. Classless.

Canadians trash Americans?! This could never be! Canadians are always classy, all the time! Theo Fleury and Sean Avery are saints!
 

Vagrant

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I can't believe this kind of tripe is coming out of a global mod, lots of college kids opt for another year when offered professional contracts or promises to play in the NHL. Unsubstantiated accusations and senseless bashing serves to the betterment of no one.

My views have corroboration. Regardless of if you consider it to be justified or not, I do. That would be called having an opinion. Regardless of if i'm a global moderator or a regular member, i'm entitled to one just as any of you are. Many people have the errant thought that becoming a moderator means throwing your perception out the window and becoming a vanilla down the line poster that has no fire about hockey or anything aside from deleting the occasional post and handing out warning points. I joined this board to talk hockey, not to moderate it.

The second part of your post is worth points and will be deleted. I'm not going to bother discussing it. I will say that if you reference anything aside from the points about the thread topic in this thread, then you will recieve the warning you should have recieved just then.
 

Jaded-Fan

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Another funny sidenote.

He had a Jack Johnson avatar for quite some time following the 2005 draft.

I wonder if Blues fans will have the same reaction if EJ opts to stay another year with the Gophers, talk about sour grapes.

I never thought I'd see the day someone was criticized for staying in school.

Just to make a note, that was not my opinion. I merely am being devious and skeptical and looking for motive behind what I saw was a less than value trade. Nothing more or less.
 

Herby

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The only way staying in school is an honorable thing is if you plan to get your degree. Giving two years to a school while talking classes that do not challenge you in order to continue to play college hockey isn't a great sign of character

Why don't you do us a favor and post JJ's class schedule, since you obviously have inside information on what classes he is taking, I'm kind of curious.

FYI, JJ was an honor student in highschool, so maybe he values getting his education.
 

Vagrant

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He had a Jack Johnson avatar for quite some time following the 2005 draft.

I sure did. I was excited about him as a prospect for my team. He is no longer a prospect for my team, thus I am no longer excited. I also hate the terms in which he left this team and feel it was an act of immaturity on his part that resulted in him being traded. Times change. At the time of the 2003 draft I had a "Horton #16" imposed on the back of a Hurricanes jersey and was miffed when they picked Staal ahead of him. Times change.

With that said, let's get back to the topic instead of talking about me. All this attention is making me blush.
 

Wooty

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He's just another "ugly American", in a long tradition of "ugly Americans". It's only a matter of time till he moves up to hotel room trashing at the olympics. Too bad my country can't produce a Sakic or Yzerman... imagine how that would help the sport and tv ratings.

We have almost 0 coverage of this tournament here in the states, When I go seeking news-he is the first thing I read about my countries minor hockey program. In a Canadian paper. Sorry, but I don't feel properly represented to the world and it will be a sad day when he becomes a team leader of the U.S. men's nation Olympics team. Classless.
I think you are being serious :)

There have been some great player from the US and some I would say rival those 2 you mention. Pat Lafontaine comes to mind.

You have to remember that U.S. NHL players are still the minority and they come under scrutiny of very jingoistic people from other countries.
 

Vagrant

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Why don't you do us a favor and post JJ's class schedule, since you obviously have inside information on what classes he is taking, I'm kind of curious.

FYI, JJ was an honor student in highschool, so maybe he values getting his education.

I do not have his class schedule, but I do know that he does not have a major. That would imply that he either plans to leave college after his second year and wants to only focus on getting enough credits to continue to play hockey, or he's undecided. You can have you guess on which one I think.
 

Wooty

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I sure did. I was excited about him as a prospect for my team. He is no longer a prospect for my team, thus I am no longer excited. I also hate the terms in which he left this team and feel it was an act of immaturity on his part that resulted in him being traded. Times change. At the time of the 2003 draft I had a "Horton #16" imposed on the back of a Hurricanes jersey and was miffed when they picked Staal ahead of him. Times change.

With that said, let's get back to the topic instead of talking about me. All this attention is making me blush.
I find your position strange and almost obsessive :)

USC football has a great wide receiver. He will probably be a top draft choice in the NFL. His team and his quarterback want him to stay at USC for his last year to go for the National Championship. Is he wrong for staying?

I personally have passed on higher paying jobs to have a job that better fit my school schedule. Was I wrong?

In JJ's case he may have had a girlfriend in school with him, or really enjoyed playing college hockey. Perhaps he wanted to grow more. You guys accuse him of being immature,maybe he is, but maybe that is exactly why he should stay in college.
 

CapsWolverinesUSA

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My views have corroboration. Regardless of if you consider it to be justified or not, I do. That would be called having an opinion. Regardless of if i'm a global moderator or a regular member, i'm entitled to one just as any of you are. Many people have the errant thought that becoming a moderator means throwing your perception out the window and becoming a vanilla down the line poster that has no fire about hockey or anything aside from deleting the occasional post and handing out warning points. I joined this board to talk hockey, not to moderate it.

The second part of your post is worth points and will be deleted. I'm not going to bother discussing it. I will say that if you reference anything aside from the points about the thread topic in this thread, then you will recieve the warning you should have recieved just then.

Most of what you say on this topic in this thread and in others is outright speculation or explicitly false. You certainly can have opinions, but the voracity with which you attack every Jack Johnson thread combined with shady facts makes you look like an outright propagandist. You constantly condition your posts with this "i don't have a grudge, my team won a cup, no sweat off my back" stuff, which SHOULD be true, but quite clearly isn't in your case.

I think everyone gets it. You loved Jack when he was drafted, you're crabby he made your team's GM angry, and now you've decided he's bad news. Why continue to take shots at him with the personal attacks? Why does this get your rocks off? And yes, they are personal attacks. You are not "talking hockey" when you repeatedly shred someone character with no basis beyond your fairly uninformed opinion and attempt to hijack every thread devoted to discussing him as a hockey player or take charge of the ones discussing her personal elements.
 

Wooty

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I do not have his class schedule, but I do know that he does not have a major. That would imply that he either plans to leave college after his second year and wants to only focus on getting enough credits to continue to play hockey, or he's undecided. You can have you guess on which one I think.

Why would you spend so much time worrying about this?
 

Vagrant

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Most of what you say on this topic in this thread and in others is outright speculation or explicitly false. You certainly can have opinions, but the voracity with which you attack every Jack Johnson thread combined with shady facts makes you look like an outright propagandist. You constantly condition your posts with this "i don't have a grudge, my team won a cup, no sweat off my back" stuff, which SHOULD be true, but quite clearly isn't in your case.

Is it that hard to believe that the whole situation about how this trade went down, what has transpired since, and his performance at the tournament have given me more insight into what type of player and person that Jack Johnson is? The Cup stuff is true. I'm really miffed that he treated the organization the way he did, but I have no regrets at all about how last season transpired and that includes the Johnson negotiations. It may have thrown off team chemistry. In hindsight, it may have actually given our defensemen more confidence that they knew they were going to have to hold down the fort without him just like they did in the regular season. It was a potential distraction to have to meet a new player and skate with him in a playoff game the same day.


I think everyone gets it. You loved Jack when he was drafted, you're crabby he made your team's GM angry, and now you've decided he's bad news. Why continue to take shots at him with the personal attacks? Why does this get your rocks off? And yes, they are personal attacks. You are not "talking hockey" when you repeatedly shred someone character for no reason and with no basis beyond your opinion and attempt to hijack every thread devoted to discussing him as a hockey player and take charge of the ones discussing her personal elements.

I'm not making a "Personal Attack" against Jack Johnson as much as i'm giving a voice to my concerns about the maturity of a player and prospect that was once property of my favorite team. It's not against any rules here to make an "attack" against a player anyways unless it's libel. I have stated nothing as fact, only opinion.
 

Vagrant

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Why would you spend so much time worrying about this?

I'm not. People keep quoting me and I keep responding. I knew all of this stuff about Jack Johnson while he was still property of Carolina. I'm not doing research on him anymore now that he's no longer organizational property.
 

CapsWolverinesUSA

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Why would you spend so much time worrying about this?

A better question would be: Is this information about a lack of a major relevant in any shape or form? And the answer is no. The vast majority of the hockey players in Jack's year at Michigan (I believe 100%, but am not positive) are currently undeclared, including the ones who have no aspirations to jump to the NHL this year or ever. If Caniacforever actually knew anything about the Michigan program, Jack Johnson as a person, Jack's family, or really anything that the few nuggets someone from Carolina dropped in his lap a few months ago--or even attempted to think beyond what is convenient to his propaganda--he might have learned this. But no. He would rather "talk hockey".
 

FacelessButcher

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My views have corroboration.
Enlighten me on your corroboration i.e. links. It was asked of you earlier I assume you'll pass on that again.
Caniacforever said:
Regardless of if you consider it to be justified or not, I do. That would be called having an opinion. Regardless of if i'm a global moderator or a regular member, i'm entitled to one just as any of you are. Many people have the errant thought that becoming a moderator means throwing your perception out the window and becoming a vanilla down the line poster that has no fire about hockey or anything aside from deleting the occasional post and handing out warning points. I joined this board to talk hockey, not to moderate it.
I'm not asking you to become vanilla or throw away your right to speak, but I do believe you should have some accountability when you sling mud at someone and make rather large leaps of faith in judgement to bash a prospect, with seemingly no reference point for your allegation.

Oiler prospect Matt Greene held out on us for a year to go back to North Dakota because he said he had unfinished business and wanted to lead ND to a championship, I can't recall even one Oiler poster bashing him for making that decision and there is a lot of empassioned Oiler fans.

As an outsider looking at Carolina, to me the reason why Carolina traded him seemed obvious. It had nothing to do with character flaws or thoughts that he won't live upto his billing, but the simple realization that the window of oppurtinity for winning another Stanley cup on the heels of their last one was rather short. The team was built on a lot of intelligent UFA signings and some great character guys who are getting up there in age. Their ability to keep and resign them all while holding onto their good young players seemed somewhat tenous with payroll restrictions. In knowing that they needed defensive help and having a valuable asset in Jack Johnson it made sense to trade for someone who could help them before their window of oppurtinity expired.
 

CapsWolverinesUSA

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Is it that hard to believe that the whole situation about how this trade went down, what has transpired since, and his performance at the tournament have given me more insight into what type of player and person that Jack Johnson is? The Cup stuff is true. I'm really miffed that he treated the organization the way he did, but I have no regrets at all about how last season transpired and that includes the Johnson negotiations. It may have thrown off team chemistry. In hindsight, it may have actually given our defensemen more confidence that they knew they were going to have to hold down the fort without him just like they did in the regular season. It was a potential distraction to have to meet a new player and skate with him in a playoff game the same day.




I'm not making a "Personal Attack" against Jack Johnson as much as i'm giving a voice to my concerns about the maturity of a player and prospect that was once property of my favorite team. It's not against any rules here to make an "attack" against a player anyways unless it's libel. I have stated nothing as fact, only opinion.

If you asked Brett Hedican or Aaron Ward if they drew motivation and confidence from the choice a 19 year old college kid made, they would laugh in your face.

And it's fairly obvious you're "miffed". Why else would someone act the way you do?

And no, it is not hard to believe you have used this tournament to fuel your propaganda. After all, if you view an event with a outright bias, you can pretty much fit it into any theory. So, it is not shocking that Mr. Jack Johnson Played One Good Game would use the tournament to support his opinions that Jack Johnson is overrated.

And finally, I don't care what the rules of this board are and how you view your conduct in accordance with them. You're engaging in an outright smear campaign. It is clear as day and you know that many posters have called you on it. I'm not reporting you to anyone. Continue to do what you do. But just know that this "I'm just talking hockey" excuse is extremely transparent. You have a grudge. You take pleasure in ripping the kid whenever possible and making sure every Jack Johnson thread becomes the Caniacforever show. And it's lame.
 

Vagrant

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A better question would be: Is this information about a lack of a major relevant in any shape or form? And the answer is no. The vast majority of the hockey players in Jack's year at Michigan (I believe 100%, but am not positive) are currently undeclared, including the ones who have no aspirations to jump to the NHL this year or ever. If Caniacforever actually knew anything about the Michigan program, Jack Johnson as a person, Jack's family, or really anything that the few nuggets someone from Carolina dropped in his lap a few months ago--or even attempted to think beyond what is convenient to his propaganda--he might have learned this. But no. He would rather "talk hockey".

He's enrolled in the Kinesiology program. I know he's undeclared, but that program likely becomes a cream puff major at one point or another. Sports Medicine or something of that nature. That isn't meant to demean any people that actually intend to get a degree in that area, but when you're an athlete those are the types of programs you get into to avoid having to do any considerable amount of work.

Most of the Michigan players that are Jack's age have plans to play hockey as professionals as well. So the point that he's just like the rest of them is moot. Provided with the opportunity to sign with the respective teams that drafted or will draft them, they will likely not finish their education either.

Again, the point of this thread is not to discuss me. It's to discuss Jack Johnson. Past this point, any references to myself or any other poster instead of the topic at hand will result in warning points. If you wish to discuss the talking points of this thread, that is totally fine. When you start to pick out a poster and bash them instead of disproving their views, you're treading into territory that will lend itself to the closing of the thread or distribution of points.
 

CapsWolverinesUSA

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He's enrolled in the Kinesiology program. I know he's undeclared, but that program likely becomes a cream puff major at one point or another. Sports Medicine or something of that nature. That isn't meant to demean any people that actually intend to get a degree in that area, but when you're an athlete those are the types of programs you get into to avoid having to do any considerable amount of work.

Most of the Michigan players that are Jack's age have plans to play hockey as professionals as well. So the point that he's just like the rest of them is moot. Provided with the opportunity to sign with the respective teams that drafted or will draft them, they will likely not finish their education either.

Again, the point of this thread is not to discuss me. It's to discuss Jack Johnson. Past this point, any references to myself or any other poster instead of the topic at hand will result in warning points. If you wish to discuss the talking points of this thread, that is totally fine. When you start to pick out a poster and bash them instead of disproving their views, you're treading into territory that will lend itself to the closing of the thread or distribution of points.

Hilarious. You point to this major thing as proof that he's not serious about school, I respond that every Michigan sophomore is undeclared, and you tell me that's "moot" because you think most Michigan players might be jumping to the NHL and not caring about school? So now nobody who plays for Michigan cares about school? Is that it? Do you actually think anyone buys stuff like this? You don't know the first thing about Michigan. Why pretend like you do? You clearly don't know that many Michigan players go undrafted. And many are quite serious students. And even those that are don't declare their majors in their freshman years.

You wonder why these threads become about you. The answer is clear as day. You pollute them with bile, unfair criticism, and complete conjecture disguised as fact. How can they not become about you?
 

Vagrant

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If you asked Brett Hedican or Aaron Ward if they drew motivation and confidence from the choice a 19 year old college kid made, they would laugh in your face.

You would be surprised. A hot to trot rookie coming into the lockerroom can have a profound influence on the rest of the team. See also: Sidney Crosby. See also: Mark Recchi, Ziggy Palffy, and John LeClair. When you're dealing with a totally new player joining the fold and it doesn't materialize, sometimes it can be used as a springboard to take your job more seriously. That was a pretty random reference I threw out there and a pretty tough one to defend, but it's just a theory.

You're engaging in an outright smear campaign. It is clear as day and you know that many posters have called you on it. I'm not reporting you to anyone. Continue to do what you do. But just know that this "I'm just talking hockey" excuse is extremely transparent. You have a grudge. You take pleasure in ripping the kid whenever possible and making sure every Jack Johnson thread becomes the Caniacforever show. And it's lame.

I have hit maybe ...two threads discussing Jack Johnson. This one and the one in the WJC forum. I would hardly call that making every thread the "Caniacforever", show. If you feel that i'm breaking any rules, then feel free to report me on it. There are no rules that are being broken. I have a right to express my view on a prospect, no matter how unpopular that opinion may be, and my status on this forum will in no way prevent me from doing that. I do have a slight grudge against Jack Johnson, but not to the extent that I would make up things that do not exist to further prove a cause that i'm not really interested in anymore aside from the view of a passive observer who knows a bit of backstory on the situation. I don't think anything i've said has been totally over the top regarding the kid. He may very well have the heart of a lion and be the best player in the NHL in a few years. That doesn't influence my opinion on what i'm seeing right now, though.
 

Vagrant

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Hilarious. You point to this major thing as proof that he's not serious about school, I respond that every Michigan sophomore is undeclared, and you tell me that's "moot" because you think most Michigan players might be jumping to the NHL and not caring about school? So now nobody who plays for Michigan cares about school? Is that it? Do you actually think anyone buys stuff like this? You don't know the first thing about Michigan. Why pretend like you do? You clearly don't know that many Michigan players go undrafted. And many are quite serious students. And even those that are don't declare their majors in their freshman years.

You wonder why these threads become about you. The answer is clear as day. You pollute them with bile, unfair criticism, and complete conjecture disguised as fact. How can they not become about you?

You're jumping to far too many conclusions about Michigan based on my comments about Jack Johnson and a few of his teammates. I have no doubt that Michigan is a fine school and I know that Red Berenson has a great track record in terms of the education of his players, but players like Jack Johnson are few and far between. Michigan hasn't ever had a player like Jack Johnson.

I would also like to mention again that I have disguised nothing as fact. I've said many times that everything i've said has been opinion based. Nothing more. If there was no opinion of dissent on these boards, these boards wouldn't exist.
 

danaluvsthekings

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Is it that hard to believe that the whole situation about how this trade went down, what has transpired since, and his performance at the tournament have given me more insight into what type of player and person that Jack Johnson is? The Cup stuff is true. I'm really miffed that he treated the organization the way he did, but I have no regrets at all about how last season transpired and that includes the Johnson negotiations.

How exactly did Johnson treat the Canes poorly? Johnson said his plan was to stay at least two years at Michigan when he was drafted. Did the Hurricanes and Jim Rutherford not know this? There's no rule that says an NHL prospect MUST sign with the NHL team when the NHL GM first offers him a contract. Dave Taylor tried to get Brian Boyle to turn pro before he was fired last season and he wouldn't sign. After Taylor was fired, Lombardi and Hextall again tried to get Boyle to turn pro and he refused, saying he wanted to go back for his senior season and to try and win an NCAA championship. I'm sure Kings management would rather see Boyle playing in Manchester this year but they had to respect his decision. If teams draft kids from juniors, they might be able to pencil them into their lineup as an 18 or 19 year old but if teams make the decision to draft a college player, they should be prepared that the player might actually stay all 4 years in college. Rutherford figured he could convince Johnson to leave school early and it didn't work out that way. If Johnson doesn't leave Michigan until after his senior year, as a Kings fan I'd be disappointed of course, but I wouldn't say he treated the Kings wrongly.

He's enrolled in the Kinesiology program. I know he's undeclared, but that program likely becomes a cream puff major at one point or another. Sports Medicine or something of that nature. That isn't meant to demean any people that actually intend to get a degree in that area, but when you're an athlete those are the types of programs you get into to avoid having to do any considerable amount of work.

I'm sure some athletes do pick that major to avoid work. Then again, a lot of these kids have been playing so much hockey at the expense of their studies. They also miss class because they're traveling to play their NCAA games. I know the NCAA tries to limit the amount of class they're going to miss and they provide them with tutors and things like that, but they're still going to miss some class time. Expecting them to pick a major like engineering (unless they're going to like RPI) with their hockey schedule is kind of pointless. I do admire athletes that pick something that is more challenging than the typical athlete major but I also understand that for a lot of these kids, school has been on the back burner since they were freshmen in high school or even before that because of sports. High Schools only care about keeping their athletes academically eligible, not challenging them.

I have a family friend that went to college on a baseball scholarship and he did major in something along those lines, kinesiology. He played minor league baseball for a few years, made it to AAA before blowing out his arm. For him, his kinesiology major ended up helping him after his baseball career was over. He works in a physical therapy office, coaches a high school team and he's got the experience to tell kids when to lay off injuries, not to throw certain pitches because their body isn't developed enough and they're going to ruin their arm, and things like that. Odds are Johnson won't need something like this to fall back on, but for some of his teammates that might never make the NHL having a kinesiology degree could help them career wise.
 

UvBnDatsyuked

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Jack Johnson has had no issues while at Michigan. There was one hit in the last season that someone posted and tried to make a big deal about but all in all there has been nothing negative come out about him while he has been at Michigan. Red Berenson has said nothing but positive things and if he was a problem there he would have moved on like most problem players do.

Last year during the World Jrs there was his head hunting elbow on Downie. Many say he missed and many say he conected. No matter what happened he could have hurt him if he had connected. He will live with the reactions from fans for that (espescially continuing playing with the USA uniform) #37, you shouldn't worry about what foreign papers say about other countries players. I do think TSN's coverage treated Johnson very objectively. I didn't read too many articles from Canadian papers, but I wouldnt' be surprised if they talked more about JJ's negatives than Downie's negatives.

It's obvious that his decision to stay another year upset the Canes and their actions after that decision seem like they were an overreaction. Nothing has come out or even said by the Canes that indicated that they were sending him packing for any other reason than he was staying another year. The "living up to his own hype" is a comment that doesn't fit the situation. It more sounds like something a front office person for the Canes would say upon hearing that JJ was doing what he said he was going to do, stay two years. Johnson's career so far seems very well orchestrated. Leaving a great hockey state like Michigan to go play for Shattuck, then onto NTDP and then onto a school that he has said from the beginning was a dream come true. The Canes are out for one thing - a return on investment-Nothing wrong with that they are a business. JJ is looking out for his development. If the Canes are going to give that kind of knee jerk reaction, he honestly is better off
 
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