Jack Johnson, the NHL's Best Shutdown Defenseman . . . of Evgeni Malkin?

[KIRK]

All summer, people debated the 'Jack Johnson effect' on Geno. Some people here excused Johnson because Geno didn't have much of a leg to stand on in his own right. Some people rightfully added Phil to the mix.

But, look at Geno's Corsi numbers from last night with the defense:

There's no arguing the numbers anymore. It wasn't Geno last night. It wasn't his line . . . Tanev was a force of nature, and Galchenyuk may not have been great, but his 200 foot game isn't something people can use as an alternative explanation like they used Phil. And it sure as hell wasn't Schultz, who one could argue was the issue last night like one maybe could last year.

Right there . . . in BLACK and WHITE.

And it begs three comments:

1. Geno needs to ***** slap Jim Rutherford for not trading that shift killer over the summer, no matter the cost. After all that crap the GM threw his way, after how Geno responded, Rutherford comes back to the same **** defense killing any chance he has of truly taking a game over like he could when our defense wasn't ****.

2. Geno needs to ***** slap Mike Sullivan while he's at it. This is Sullivan's choice to dress Johnson. It's his choice to saddle Geno with Johnson. It may be the crap GM who put this crap defense together, but the coach has the lineup card, and it's HIS choice to start Johnson over Riikola (and for that matter Guds over Marino should Guds' **** last night continue).

3. Schultz needs to ***** slap BOTH Rutherford and Sullivan, because those two are going to cost him MILLIONS if this **** doesn't stop.

We truly have reached BAD SCUDERI point with Jack Johnson. Actually, I think that I may be insulting bad Scuderi.

I remember the discussions then. People then . . . well, he's not THAT bad. He ALONE isn't making the difference. And you hear the same arguments now. The numbers above prove incontrovertibly that while Johnson may not be the ONLY issue, you can't fix what is wrong with this team as long as he plays. Hockey is too much of a 5 man game. You need to much in transition from the defense in today's NHL.

It truly is sad. I think back to the cup years. In 2016, Ian Cole was our worst puck moving defenseman. In 2017, he was 2nd to last (because we had to add Hainsey with Letang out). On THIS team, he'd be 3rd best. There's your problem. And Johnson exacerbates that problem ten fold.

We literally have reached the point where this organization is going to sacrifice what could be a last hurrah for Sid and a re-energized Geno at the altar of Jack Johnson.

/rant

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[ZeroPucksGiven]

I was told we're showcasing Johnson so another team would be willing to take him off our hands more quickly

Funny stuff

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean you're not wrong but:

 

[KIRK]

I mean you're not wrong but:

Well, you asked @pixiesfanyo last night what specifically Johnson did wrong. Does shutting down Evgeni Malkin count?

EDIT: Joke aside, it's really theater of the absurd at this point with Rutherford and Sullivan. They're both on express trains to their respective expiration dates, and I'm not sure the GM didn't hit some time ago.

 

[RSPens]

The sad thing is, Johnson wasn't the reason the Pens lost last night. In fact if McCann bury's the goal on his first shift, than the game has a different outcome. Just look at who had a minus on the night. Dumo and Tanger -2, Simon, Bleuger, ZAR, Sid, Horny, Jake -1. When our first line and 4th line are outplayed, it's hard to blame JJ. Now did JJ bring any positives to the game? No, he did not. Should JJ be on the second pairing? Hell no.

 

[ColePens]

Something I noticed big time is the offensive zone sustained pressure by our defense. They are exiting the offensive zone to protect sooooo early. There were at least a handful of times G's line kept a puck alive only for it to come back out of the zone because our defense was racing back to our zone. That was really heart breaking because the one thing we resurrected in 2016 was simply keeping pucks alive. In fact the Game 7 against the Caps in 2017 actually showcased what keeping a puck in can do.

But nope... Guds/JJ especially are racing back to our d-zone before the puck even hits the circles.

 

[KIRK]

The sad thing is, Johnson wasn't the reason the Pens lost last night. In fact if McCann bury's the goal on his first shift, than the game has a different outcome. Just look at who had a minus on the night. Dumo and Tanger -2, Simon, Bleuger, ZAR, Sid, Horny, Jake -1. When our first line and 4th line are outplayed, it's hard to blame JJ. Now did JJ bring any positives to the game? No, he did not. Should JJ be on the second pairing? Hell no.

Actually, Johnson brought a positive last night. It's just that it was for Buffalo helping them slow down Geno.

You're doing 'what if's' . . .

What IF Geno had gotten more shifts without Johnson?

 

[K Fleur]

Think JR really figured out why he was scratched yet?

 

[KIRK]

Something I noticed big time is the offensive zone sustained pressure by our defense. They are exiting the offensive zone to protect sooooo early. There were at least a handful of times G's line kept a puck alive only for it to come back out of the zone because our defense was racing back to our zone. That was really heart breaking because the one thing we resurrected in 2016 was simply keeping pucks alive. In fact the Game 7 against the Caps in 2017 actually showcased what keeping a puck in can do.

But nope... Guds/JJ especially are racing back to our d-zone before the puck even hits the circles.

Good catch.

I actually loved the one time JJ jumped in as Tanev was circling. He had options to work the puck lower to covered guys, but he sends a pass back to the point . . . for it to be Jack Johnson entering the picture.

I think one other issue revolves around the partnership with Schultz. Schultz, as you've mentioned, doesn't skate to pressure. He'll rush that puck over the Johnson, who promptly acts like he's been passed a grenade. It's why that pairing, despite the presence of Schultz, can't get a clean breakout. When it was Ian Cole with Schultz and he got that puck, Cole, for all of his limitations, was okay at skating to pressure and/or making that pass to a forward.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Something I noticed big time is the offensive zone sustained pressure by our defense. They are exiting the offensive zone to protect sooooo early. There were at least a handful of times G's line kept a puck alive only for it to come back out of the zone because our defense was racing back to our zone. That was really heart breaking because the one thing we resurrected in 2016 was simply keeping pucks alive. In fact the Game 7 against the Caps in 2017 actually showcased what keeping a puck in can do.

But nope... Guds/JJ especially are racing back to our d-zone before the puck even hits the circles.

Yeah, I remember one play yesterday where the puck was in the buffalo zone and it got dumped out. While the other 9 players were still in the zone, JJ was at the red line. How can you expect to maintain zone time if your defense cant even help sustain pressure.

 

[RSPens]

Actually, Johnson brought a positive last night. It's just that it was for Buffalo helping them slow down Geno.

You're doing 'what if's' . . .

What IF Geno had gotten more shifts without Johnson?

Obviously I'd have to look at the shift times, but I don't recall Geno playing in front of JJ all that much. In fact in looked like he played in front of Petts/Guds and Tanger/Dumo just as much. If anything I think JJ killed the 3rd line more. But again I didn't check the shift times, so maybe I just wasn't paying close enough attention.

 

[KIRK]

Obviously I'd have to look at the shift times, but I don't recall Geno playing in front of JJ all that much. In fact in looked like he played in front of Petts/Guds and Tanger/Dumo just as much. If anything I think JJ killed the 3rd line more. But again I didn't check the shift times, so maybe I just wasn't paying close enough attention.

A psychiatrist might suggest you had learned how to block the sight on Malkin skating on the same shift as Johnson from your mind.

If you have . . . could you please teach the rest of us how?

 

[SEALBound]

Something I noticed big time is the offensive zone sustained pressure by our defense. They are exiting the offensive zone to protect sooooo early. There were at least a handful of times G's line kept a puck alive only for it to come back out of the zone because our defense was racing back to our zone. That was really heart breaking because the one thing we resurrected in 2016 was simply keeping pucks alive. In fact the Game 7 against the Caps in 2017 actually showcased what keeping a puck in can do.

But nope... Guds/JJ especially are racing back to our d-zone before the puck even hits the circles.

Not only that but they are playing the same loose unstructured drone system they were last year. If the D was racing back as part of a heavily fortified Penguins defense...that would be one thing. Instead they are leaving the treasure to race back to the match stick built house to protect it.

Systematically, nothing changed and disappoints me more than any personnel move or non move.

 

[EightyOne]

It really is f***ing brutal

 

[TooManyHumans]

I've already determined the Pens are not must watch TV for me until something changes. That game was not fun to watch at all and I am not going to suffer through that 81 more times this year.

 

[molon labe]

Something I noticed big time is the offensive zone sustained pressure by our defense. They are exiting the offensive zone to protect sooooo early. There were at least a handful of times G's line kept a puck alive only for it to come back out of the zone because our defense was racing back to our zone. That was really heart breaking because the one thing we resurrected in 2016 was simply keeping pucks alive. In fact the Game 7 against the Caps in 2017 actually showcased what keeping a puck in can do.

But nope... Guds/JJ especially are racing back to our d-zone before the puck even hits the circles.

Understated.

I would bet the over if someone said this happened 19 times last night. Our D corps is not good enough to win in this Eastern Conference, period. With the anemic black-hole forwards we have, we are going to need a LOT more opportunities compared to say, the 2017 run where we only needed 5 shots to bury 5 goals. This team, as it's constructed now - is going to take 160 shots from ZAR to get a goal, 90 from McCann, and 75 from Rust/Kahun. I think you could give Simon 1500 shots and he wouldn't bury one. We've got 3 scorers on our roster and D who can't give them opportunities. I expect to be a sub .500 team by Jan 1 tbh.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I don't know what any of those numbers mean so I can't make an judgment on your initial post.

 

[Andy99]

Either (1) keep playing this system and sub in Riikola and Marino for JJ and Guds and see if it works in puck transition and O zone play or (2) play a trap variation and try to win games 1-0 or 2-1...otherwise, we're toast...(3) tank for Lafrienere

 

[molon labe]

Either (1) keep playing this system and sub in Riikola and Marino for JJ and Guds and see if it works in puck transition and O zone play or (2) play a trap variation and try to win games 1-0 or 2-1...otherwise, we're toast...(3) tank for Lafrienere

This team doesn't appear to have the weapons to play high scoring games (haven't in a while). Winning 3 goal games is where we're at now.

Rust has declined, Sheary is gone and his replacements can't bury a shot...ever.. Guentzel now makes 6x what he did during the cup runs (justified)...and our D corps can't sustain offensive zone pressure whatsoever. Oh, our 3c is also a ghost compared to what we had a few years ago. We're playing pick up ball where we jack up a 3 and immediately run the other way....where we're shooting 3% from range.

So yeah, either we make some moves to allow these guys to get 2-3 shots on net each trip down the ice - or we trap like hell and pray for a Sid/Guentz or Geno/Gally goal.

 

[Pancakes]

What is sad is I didn't even feel like JJ played badly last night. The possession numbers were as bad as they usually are, but it at least felt like he wasn't making a ton of horrible gaffes. It's sad how low the bar is with him.

The only fix for this is removing him from the roster. As long as he is here, he will keep getting chances.

 

[Andy99]

What is sad is I didn't even feel like JJ played badly last night. The possession numbers were as bad as they usually are, but it at least felt like he wasn't making a ton of horrible gaffes. It's sad how low the bar is with him.

The only fix for this is removing him from the roster. As long as he is here, he will keep getting chances.

The thing is he's not a bad defensive player except when he's throwing bodies on top of Murray, and he IS a good Pker as management says...what's his problem for this team is that he doesn't fit the system because we need PMDs who can jump into the play quickly and provide shots on net...so he's not good in this system...end of story...same problem with Guds...Marino is much much better for this system...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

JR is at fault for the past 18-24 months of roster building. Sully is at fault for dressing/playing these guys.

I think JR should've been gone a while ago, but I'm rapidly warming to the idea that Sully just doesn't have a pulse on what made this team successful in the past. Not saying we have good options for our bottom pairing, but certainly it's blatantly obvious that guys like JJ and Gudbranson don't help this team win.

 

[ETA]

I've already determined the Pens are not must watch TV for me until something changes. That game was not fun to watch at all and I am not going to suffer through that 81 more times this year.

At the risk of being called a fair weather fan, I cancelled my Center Ice package a couple months ago.

Not sure if dumping JJ would get me interested again — this team (and maybe hockey in general) just hasn’t been that interesting to watch for a while now (win or lose).

 

[EightyOne]

I don't know what any of those numbers mean so I can't make an judgment on your initial post.

Come on now.

Geno played the most time and got the smallest numbers with JJ and Schultz.

He played the least time but got like 3X better numbers with Letang and Dumo.

I don't drink analytic number koolaid, but, you sure as shit don't want the numbers he was getting with JJ and Schultz.

 

[molon labe]

At the risk of being called a fair weather fan, I cancelled my Center Ice package a couple months ago.

Not sure if dumping JJ would get me interested again — this team (and maybe hockey in general) just hasn’t been that interesting to watch for a while now (win or lose).

I wouldn't feel bad nor a need to justify that to anyone. We all have our reasons to watch hockey. For me the decision to leave will be made if/when Disney..err..ESPN takes over. I'm not going to watch the game to learn about players' sexualities or political views, and nothing on TV is that important to my life to force something to work. Does that make me care about the team less? Idk, but who do I need to prove anything to?

Frankly I wouldn't blame anyone for NOT showing up to games or not watching this product. It's worse than actually having a bad team, because we COULD be good (barring roster/system changes) - but we're not. If we were built like Ottawa at least I could watch impasse and get happy over little things.