Jack Hughes first 2 pro seasons : improving, but still not 1st overall level

[Machinehead]

When your first evidence of success for a winger is his defensive metrics, you're already starting out at a negative.

Realistically, if a redraft happens today, Byram/Dach/Hughes/Seider/Zegras are likely all going before Kakko.

Maybe future development shakes out differently, but it certainly hasn't from June 2019 - Present.

Kakko's first two seasons - 40 points in 104 games = 0.38 PPG

Couturier's first two seasons - 42 points in 123 games = 0.34 PPG

Their D+2 seasons looked like this:

This site wanted to marry a young Sean Couturier but thinks Kakko sucks because Couturier went two spots lower and doesn't play for the Rangers.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Kakko's first two seasons - 40 points in 104 games = 0.38 PPG

Couturier's first two seasons - 42 points in 123 games = 0.34 PPG

Their D+2 seasons looked like this:

This site wanted to marry a young Sean Couturier but thinks Kakko sucks because Couturier went two spots lower and doesn't play for the Rangers.

Would you like me to repeat myself? Here:

"When your first evidence of success for a winger is defensive metrics, you're already starting out at a negative."

I don't give a shit about Kakko being good defensively playing third line minutes and assignments.

 

[Machinehead]

Would you like me to repeat myself?

When your first evidence of success for a winger is defensive metrics, you're already starting out at a negative.

I don't give a shit about Kakko being good defensively playing third line minutes and assignments.

No, please don't. You were wrong the first time.

 

[Machinehead]

You can think of Kakko what you want, but I wanna know why the standards are different for him.

This site salivates over good young defensive players who are great along the boards any other time.

 

[Hisch13r]

Hughes is still clearly 1st and Kakko is still 2nd.

 

[Muikea Bulju]

Posters with Puljujarvi and Bertuzzi avatars telling me development is over at 20.

I couldn't make up something that good.

Of course development is not over at 20. But Kakko has been a man-child, he dominated compared to his peers before the draft mainly because he was just bigger & stronger, grew up and developed earlier.

Now that the rest have caught up with him a bit, he doesn't seem so special at all.

His passing is not that good to overcome all the weaknesses. His hockey IQ is not the best in the offensive end. His skating is extremely inefficient. His stick is so short that his shot is very weak & easy to read.

Development is not over at 20, but I can't really see Kakko developing any higher than a bunch of guys in the same draft.

 

[Hisch13r]

Open your eyes, maaan

It's more like the 2019 redraft would be

1. Zegras
2. Hughes
3. Dach
4. Spencer Knight
5. Byram
6. Seider
7. Höglander
8. Cozens
9. Caufield
10. Kakko

And Knight might even jump to Top2 if some team needs a goalie. (He has been at leas 91,3% in every single league or tournament since his draft, and 91,9% this season with the Panthers ... probably the best goalie prospect in a loong timee)View attachment 434654

Zegras would not go over Hughes.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

No, please don't. You were wrong the first time.

That moment that you realize half of Detroit fans are disappointed in Filip Zadina, and he still scored at the same rate as Kakko on one of the worst offensive teams ever.

 

[Machinehead]

Of course development is not over at 20. But Kakko has been a man-child, he dominated compared to his peers before the draft mainly because he was just bigger & stronger, grew up and developed earlier.

Now that the rest have caught up with him a bit, he doesn't seem so special at all.

His passing is not that good to overcome all the weaknesses. His hockey IQ is not the best in the offensive end. His skating is extremely inefficient. His stick is so short that his shot is very weak & easy to read.

Development is not over at 20, but I can't really see Kakko developing any higher than a bunch of guys in the same draft.

You mean to tell me that a guy who was throwing around children has a learning curve when everyone is his size?

My mind is absolutely blown.

 

[Machinehead]

That moment that you realize half of Detroit fans are disappointed in Filip Zadina, and he still scored at the same rate as Kakko on one of the worst offensive teams ever.

He plays two and a half minutes more per game even as a disappointing prospect. Thanks for supporting my argument.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

He plays two and a half minutes more per game even as a disappointing prospect. Thanks for supporting my argument.

Good thing more minutes almost never mean tougher assignments. But thank God Kakko looked good defensively on third line assignments.

Just take the L and move on.

 

[Dache]

Lets see you guys write something out in Finnish....I'm sure it'll be brilliant.

English isn't everyones native tongue here.

I doubt those posters are on Finnish hockey forums, also out of all the insults that get thrown around on here I think taking about an abundance of commas is pretty vanilla.

 

[Machinehead]

Good thing more minutes almost never mean tougher assignments.

Just take the L and move on.

Mature and thought out response that clearly articulates you've proven your point.

 

[Muikea Bulju]

You mean to tell me that a guy who was throwing around children has a learning curve when everyone is his size?

My mind is absolutely blown.

But the problem is that he has no qualities or potential with which he could dominate the NHL the way he did dominate pre-draft.

He would have to take some serious ped's to fix his skating, and get used to a longer stick. And after getting that longer stick, his puckhandling would become worse.

 

[Muikea Bulju]

Zegras would not go over Hughes.

I think people who have watched him might disagree. He seems to be the real deal, and even a pressure-player.

Yes, Hughes will probably average 60 points easily per season for his career, but Zegras has the potential for more.

 

[Machinehead]

But the problem is that he has no qualities or potential with which he could dominate the NHL the way he did dominate pre-draft.

He would have to take some serious ped's to fix his skating, and get used to a longer stick. And after getting that longer stick, his puckhandling would become worse.

I don't know what player you're watching. His skating needs work, absolutely. His puckhandling is phenomenal and is definitely a standout skill in the NHL. Grown ass NHL players have a hell of a time getting the puck away from him.

If you put him with scorers instead of in a checking role, his possession would lead to offense, even assuming his own skills don't develop any further (which is silly).

I'm not surprised a Jack Hughes thread turned into a "Kakko sucks" thread, which is unfortunate, but I am surprised that it's not even Devils fans doing it. There's such a weird preoccupation with the Rangers.

 

[Muikea Bulju]

I don't know what player you're watching. His skating needs work, absolutely. His puckhandling is phenomenal and is definitely a standout skill in the NHL. Grown ass NHL players have a hell of a time getting the puck away from him.

If you put him with scorers instead of in a checking role, his possession would lead to offense, even assuming his own skills don't develop any further (which is silly).

I'm not surprised a Jack Hughes thread turned into a "Kakko sucks" thread, which is unfortunate, but I am surprised that it's not even Devils fans doing it. There's such a weird preoccupation with the Rangers.

How do you know I'm a fan of any team?

I have watched a ton of Kakko this season, due to him being finnish. And it is very, very evident he has such gaping holes in his game that he is never going to dominate the league if he doesn't 1) get a longer stick, and 2) learn to skate

Currently he is projecting as a middle 6 winger.

 

[Hisch13r]

I think people who have watched him might disagree. He seems to be the real deal, and even a pressure-player.

Yes, Hughes will probably average 60 points easily per season for his career, but Zegras has the potential for more.

lol

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Mature and thought out response that clearly articulates you've proven your point.

So far you've dodged every point that's been made and just repetitively retreated for, "BUT HIS THIRD LINE DEFENSE", so what the hell do you expect?

 

[Muikea Bulju]

lol

Should we do a "2019 redraft" -thread?

I think there might be loads of users who would take Zegras and Knight before Hughes.

 

[Hisch13r]

Should we do a "2019 redraft" -thread?

I think there might be loads of users who would take Zegras and Knight before Hughes.

I mean I don't really care what they think. Saying something like "Yes, Hughes will probably average 60 points easily per season for his career, but Zegras has the potential for more." as if Hughes doesn't is just straight up moronic.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Should we do a "2019 redraft" -thread?

I think there might be loads of users who would take Zegras and Knight before Hughes.

I'd have a hard time taking Knight before seeing him get significant NHL time.

Goalies are so wishy-washy. Very few are on top throughout the majority of their career. Look at Carter Hart, already.

 

[Hisch13r]

In one offseason Kakko went from the worst 5v5 player by a mile in over a decade to a 5v5 positive with great defense. Acting like his offense isn't going to improved and he's capped out because he hasn't produced as an 18/19 year old and then a 19/20 year old in a wonky season where he had Covid is downright f***ing stupid

 

[Muikea Bulju]

I mean I don't really care what they think. Saying something like "Yes, Hughes will probably average 60 points easily per season for his career, but Zegras has the potential for more." as if Hughes doesn't is just straight up moronic.

I don't think Hughes has as high a potential as Zegras does.

 

[rangersfansince08]

In one offseason Kakko went from the worst 5v5 player by a mile in over a decade to a 5v5 positive with great defense. Acting like his offense isn't going to improved and he's capped out because he hasn't produced as an 18/19 year old and then a 19/20 year old in a wonky season where he had Covid is downright f***ing stupid

This.