News Article: Jack Han and The 2F3D project

[meefer]

I was first alerted to this idea in today's Toronto Star in an article written my everybody's favorite, Feschuk. However, the ideas are from Jack Han, someone who's writings I do enjoy. He outlines them here.

The 2F3D Project: Breakout & Transition

Reading that article led me to a follow-up tweet.

skozer
@CSkochinski
· Nov 8
Replying to @racheldoerrie
4 forwards and 1 D on your first and second lines. Then go with 3 D and 2 forwards for the bottom 6? I could see it

An idea that Han suggested, "this guy's on to something."

Which got me thinking, heck what else am I going to think about now that the 2 year election cycle is over.

1)Nylander Matthews Hyman
Kerfoot
Brodie

2)Mikheyev Tavares Simmonds
Marner
Rielly

3)Robertson Thornton Lehtonen
Muzzin Holl

4)Vesey Spezza Dermott
Sandin Bogosian

I found it to be an interesting thought exercise. I'm not married to it, but it does expand the possibilities that Keefe could employ. Any thoughts?

Click to read more...

 

[ER89]

I like it

 

[Cor]

Hard to have an opinion on it when it hasn’t been done before.

Jack Han has worked closely with Keefe, so it’s possible Keefe’s talked about the idea before when they were with the Marlies.

We can’t forget, Keefe ran the 5F PP with the Marlies at times as well. So he’s not opposed to trying new stuff

 

[al secord]

Deep thoughts with Jack Han.

 

[Advanced stats]

I'm going to assume the 3 d would all play defensive roles and used for shutdown scenarios. I'm absolutely fascinated by it.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I don't necessarily think teams should sit back with leads, but pretty much every team does it anyway, and I've always wondered why this hasn't been tried in those type of situations.

 

[hotpaws]

i'd like to try

2 f
2 d
2 g

and if we get ahead go with

1 f
2 d
3 g

i'm however a forward thinking out the box type of person

 

[meefer]

i'd like to try

2 f
2 d
2 g

and if we get ahead go with

1 f
2 d
3 g

i'm however a forward thinking out the box type of person

a good smile, that.

 

[meefer]

According to the Feschuk article, Erik Sweig an author/historian states this concept is not new. If the Maple Leafs try icing three defencemen at a time — oh, the outrage — they’ll have history on their side

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

I've been a proponent of using 10 forwards and 8 d for a few year but not in this capacity. I am of the belief that if you have 4 pairs of defenders who are all average to solid who can play 15 minutes each and all hold their own against top forwards. You can then load up on offensive talent for the 3 forward lines, or top 2 lines and have the final 4 forwards be defensive players for the pk and defensive situations.

Edit

I will say this idea was from our years with Orr and McLaren and getting tired of having them play 2-5 minutes a night. Like what's the point.

 

[robertmac43]

I love how Han's brain works when it comes to these kind of things. Definitely an interesting thought experiment, but it's tough to see something like this coming to fruition. League of copiers not innovators!

 

[egd27]

Haven't the Leafs tried the 4F-1D formation for years with Gardiner and Barrie ?

 

[ToneDog]

Jack might have too much time on his hans. The lineup from the OP would last one week IMO. Having said that, it has a better chance to work if you have the right players. That is you have to build towards it, rather than picking up players from the scrap heap and fitting them in.

 

[Fogelhund]

Haven't the Leafs tried the 4F-1D formation for years with Gardiner and Barrie ?

Those are certainly the guys you want on the ice, in a 2F 3D situation... the third D being more of a rover type player.

Trying this, would make for an interesting experiment though.

 

[ottomaddox]

I was first alerted to this idea in today's Toronto Star in an article written my everybody's favorite, Feschuk. However, the ideas are from Jack Han, someone who's writings I do enjoy. He outlines them here.

The 2F3D Project: Breakout & Transition

Reading that article led me to a follow-up tweet.

skozer
@CSkochinski
· Nov 8
Replying to @racheldoerrie
4 forwards and 1 D on your first and second lines. Then go with 3 D and 2 forwards for the bottom 6? I could see it

An idea that Han suggested, "this guy's on to something."

Which got me thinking, heck what else am I going to think about now that the 2 year election cycle is over.

1)Nylander Matthews Hyman
Kerfoot
Brodie

2)Mikheyev Tavares Simmonds
Marner
Rielly

3)Robertson Thornton Lehtonen
Muzzin Holl

4)Vesey Spezza Dermott
Sandin Bogosian

I found it to be an interesting thought exercise. I'm not married to it, but it does expand the possibilities that Keefe could employ. Any thoughts?

I don't like Kerfoot at all, or better yet I don't trust in his ability. He is not a great 3rd line C option, and he is probably best suited for 4th line Wing.

Again, I don't like to see Dermott as a rover. He needs to be finding great improvement as a LD at the #5 position.

This idea that something new could exist in hockey is a head scratcher. Like I don't really think that having 4 forwards and 1 defenseman on the PP is a dynamic technological advancement in hockey. A left D and a right D could be just as good as having Marner play the point on the PP.

I'm not trying to be old school or not open minded, but this idea of playing 3 defenseman at a time is a little out there. What purpose would it serve? Awesome possession numbers?

Also what Cor said: this is hoping a soccer formation can innovate the game. Sort of like when people fell in love with Liverpool's so called new to soccer formation.

Perhaps 6 skaters no goalie?
No center to take faceoffs (just let the other team's center win)
4 defenceman and 1 winger?
It's the against the rules, but 2 goalies?

Fun to day dream, but don't think that most of these things haven't been tried.

 

[Cor]

2F 3D would be a very soccer esque style formation.

Essentially creates a LS-RS-LD-CD-RD situation. (left side, right side, left defense, center defense, right defense)

Something like;

Tavares - Marner
Rielly - Muzzin - Brodie

in the final two minutes up by a goal would be interesting.

 

[kb]

I don't like Kerfoot at all, or better yet I don't trust in his ability. He is not a great 3rd line C option, and he is probably best suited for 4th line Wing.

Again, I don't like to see Dermott as a rover. He needs to be finding great improvement as a LD at the #5 position.

This idea that something new could exist in hockey is a head scratcher. Like I don't really think that having 4 forwards and 1 defenseman on the PP is a dynamic technological advancement in hockey. A left D and a right D could be just as good as having Marner play the point on the PP.

I'm not trying to be old school or not open minded, but this idea of playing 3 defenseman at a time is a little out there. What purpose would it serve? Awesome possession numbers?

Thank god the board knows how to evaluate players better, so this post can be entirely ignored.

It's nothing more than an exercise in "what if" or "I wonder".

 

[Joey Hoser]

Sounds crazy, but when you think about it, it's not like the traditional 3F/2D setup has proven itself to be superior to any other possibility. It's just what we've always done, and the idea has never been seriously challenged.

It's one of those ideas where you either look like a genius or an idiot, without much room in between.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Doesn't work. Barrie was a 4th fwd and we played like shit.

 

[Garthinater]

I've been a proponent of using 10 forwards and 8 d for a few year but not in this capacity. I am of the belief that if you have 4 pairs of defenders who are all average to solid who can play 15 minutes each and all hold their own against top forwards. You can then load up on offensive talent for the 3 forward lines, or top 2 lines and have the final 4 forwards be defensive players for the pk and defensive situations.

Edit

I will say this idea was from our years with Orr and McLaren and getting tired of having them play 2-5 minutes a night. Like what's the point.

I loved having orr and McLaren on the 4th line. They were the scariest line in hockey for a year.

One of the best games I've ever watched was when we lay a beating on the habs. McLaren was laughing at Jorges, orr was taking out everybody and the score was 6-0.

 

[Buds17]

It's different for soccer. Formations are different and less weighted towards the strikers/the front. Soccer also has the greater number of combinations. All players log the same number of minutes too, barring the exceptions of those that are subbed off and on. There wouldn't seem to be quite enough defencemen to employ a 2F-3D to any great extent in the NHL. Conversely, a 4F-1D cuts too greatly into TOI for d-men. This is not to outright say such changes absolutely could not work. The idea would bring significant shifts though from where we're currently at. I'd guess this would not be all that simple to implement either.

 

[ottomaddox]

I've been a proponent of using 10 forwards and 8 d for a few year but not in this capacity. I am of the belief that if you have 4 pairs of defenders who are all average to solid who can play 15 minutes each and all hold their own against top forwards. You can then load up on offensive talent for the 3 forward lines, or top 2 lines and have the final 4 forwards be defensive players for the pk and defensive situations.

Edit

I will say this idea was from our years with Orr and McLaren and getting tired of having them play 2-5 minutes a night. Like what's the point.

The context has changed. Back then there was a fair bit of staged fighting.

Everyone assumes that we were deep in skill then and had offensive producers hoping to get in the line-up instead of Orr/McLaren. We did not have a very good prospect pool.

 

[Beaumaris]

a good smile, that.

I like it,especially the 3 goalies.

 

[ottomaddox]

This begs the question:

What happens when we have 1 or 2 injuries to the defense? I could see Muzzin and Rielly missing games. Do you have Marincin come in to act as lead Rover?

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

So many roster issues and unhappy forwards. We have defensive depth but still not enough depth to do this.

It is also very unatural for the D to make the switch.