Jack Eichel

OgeeOgelthorpe

Baldina
Feb 29, 2020
17,008
17,993
I get where you are coming from and mostly agree but at the end of the day I wouldn’t fret any of these other prospects when trading for a guy of the eichels caliber. A couple points:

1) we are getting a top 10 Center back so I’m less worried about total value going the other way.

2) with Eichel/Larkin/Ras down the middle I don’t see as much need for Veleno.

3) similar on wing, with Vrana, Raymond, Bert and to a lesser extent Fabbri I don’t see much need for Berggren.


4) we still have some other intriguing prospects like Mastrosimone, Bradley, soderblom, etc. No sure bets but some pieces in the pipeline.

5) we still have a late 1st, two seconds, a bunch of late picks and all future picks.

at the end of the day, we’d have an excellent young core, and lots of future pieces to work with so if takes Berggren, Veleno and even one more pick, I do that all day long.

Some people have brought up Eichel’s injuries which is a fair concern but all trades are pending a physical so assuming our doctors will sign off on Eichel, I jump at this.

Veleno will be better than Ras. Book it.

Also Berggren has the makings of a guy who could get you 50 to 70 points in a season. You'd take Bert and Fabbri over that? Guys that get you 40 to 50 points a season? It's not like they're all stars.
 

OgeeOgelthorpe

Baldina
Feb 29, 2020
17,008
17,993
Yep, "the smoke/fire" covers all those players.

$12m/2yrs dead cap for Okposo will deflate the value somewhat, but not so much that BUF sells that "low" on both Eich & Reinhart.

However, presuming they did...

I like the 1st trade which we keep our own '21 1st. Bert is the casualty +Ras & Tuomisto. I'd prefer Reinhart over Risto (RD surplus) who can't/doesn't defend well.

Vrana-Eichel-Zadina (don't think Z is ready for 1st line duty yet)
Fabbri-Larkin-Raymond (when he's ready)
Berggren-Veleno-Erne
Smith-LGD-Pearson?

I think the issue with Ristolainen is the same kind of issue that we have with Hronek - playing over his head on a thin team. Only Buffalo's goaltending is like 82 games of 2019-20 Jim Howard and Calvin Pickard level goaltending.

He'd look great as the #4 on a contending team. 2nd D on PP1, limited or no PK time and favorable O zone starts.
 

heyfolks

Registered User
Apr 30, 2007
1,748
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Wings #1 this year, Ras and Fabbri* (though they'll push for Vrana or Raymond)** may get it done. I can't see them accepting the caps pick. Eichel is a #2 who panned out into star status.


* I am fine with this being Bertuzzi.
** This will hinge on where the Wings land in the draft.
 
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Ghost of Ethan Hunt

The Official Ghost of Space Ghosts Monkey
Jun 23, 2018
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Top Secret Moon Base
I think the issue with Ristolainen is the same kind of issue that we have with Hronek - playing over his head on a thin team. Only Buffalo's goaltending is like 82 games of 2019-20 Jim Howard and Calvin Pickard level goaltending.

He'd look great as the #4 on a contending team. 2nd D on PP1, limited or no PK time and favorable O zone starts.
Fair point, however...That's a lot of sheltering for a Dman with his $ & Cost of Acquisition price tag. Then factor in he's not 21/22 etc.
 

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

The Official Ghost of Space Ghosts Monkey
Jun 23, 2018
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Veleno will be better than Ras. Book it.

Also Berggren has the makings of a guy who could get you 50 to 70 points in a season. You'd take Bert and Fabbri over that? Guys that get you 40 to 50 points a season? It's not like they're all stars.
Maybe Berg is, or not. He's a smaller shifty, perimeter playmaker.
Fabbri has paced for 50pts since we got him. Also +3 this season. He was one of our better F's, (that's not saying a lot, but it's something). I keep Fabbri & let him increase his trade value & TOI@ 16-17/gp. Fabbri-Veleno-Zadina (assuming we don't land Eichel). Let Bert re-cooperate & reassess.
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,212
4,422
Boston, MA
I get where you are coming from and mostly agree but at the end of the day I wouldn’t fret any of these other prospects when trading for a guy of the eichels caliber. A couple points:

1) we are getting a top 10 Center back so I’m less worried about total value going the other way.

2) with Eichel/Larkin/Ras down the middle I don’t see as much need for Veleno.

3) similar on wing, with Vrana, Raymond, Bert and to a lesser extent Fabbri I don’t see much need for Berggren.

4) we still have some other intriguing prospects like Mastrosimone, Bradley, soderblom, etc. No sure bets but some pieces in the pipeline.

5) we still have a late 1st, two seconds, a bunch of late picks and all future picks.

at the end of the day, we’d have an excellent young core, and lots of future pieces to work with so if takes Berggren, Veleno and even one more pick, I do that all day long.

Some people have brought up Eichel’s injuries which is a fair concern but all trades are pending a physical so assuming our doctors will sign off on Eichel, I jump at this.
Lets not pretend that Bert being in the lineup is a foregone conclusion. He's having major surgery. The kind that only happens when there is so much damage that all other options are no loner viable. Him returning to play pro hockey will be a huge thing. Him playing like he did last season might be a very unlikely outcome. His very physical style of play that make him the piano puller that Babcock always wanted Abdelkader to be may not be tenable anymore.
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
10,851
8,576
Report says Kings out on Jack Eichel, are the Rangers or anyone else in on the Sabres star? - Forever Blueshirts: A site for New York Rangers fanatics

Yikes. It sounds like earlier in the season Buffalo had been asking the equivalent of four first round picks to trade for Eichel. If that's the case, then that franchise seriously can't read the room, whether it's dealing with their own players or dealing with other teams. This isn't some RFA coming off a career year and ready to sign his first big deal.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
22,756
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Cleveland
Report says Kings out on Jack Eichel, are the Rangers or anyone else in on the Sabres star? - Forever Blueshirts: A site for New York Rangers fanatics

Yikes. It sounds like earlier in the season Buffalo had been asking the equivalent of four first round picks to trade for Eichel. If that's the case, then that franchise seriously can't read the room, whether it's dealing with their own players or dealing with other teams. This isn't some RFA coming off a career year and ready to sign his first big deal.

Really curious what Eichel ends up being dealt for. It's not going to be for what people expect, and I'd hope Yzerman is at least keeping tabs on it.
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
10,851
8,576
Really curious what Eichel ends up being dealt for. It's not going to be for what people expect, and I'd hope Yzerman is at least keeping tabs on it.
Yeah. And as weird as it sounds, I'm almost more skeptical of the contract than I am the injury.

Like, if Detroit dealt for him, it's only because they had 100 people go through all the medical stuff, and they're confident enough that he'll be a functional hockey player after surgery. But you'd better be pretty damn functional to have another 5 years at $10M, with a no movement clause after next season to boot.

I'm in total agreement with keeping tabs - it's free to kick tires - but that would be quite the roll of the dice, even if he returns to 80 percent of normal.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
22,756
4,569
Cleveland
Yeah. And as weird as it sounds, I'm almost more skeptical of the contract than I am the injury.

Like, if Detroit dealt for him, it's only because they had 100 people go through all the medical stuff, and they're confident enough that he'll be a functional hockey player after surgery. But you'd better be pretty damn functional to have another 5 years at $10M, with a no movement clause after next season to boot.

I'm in total agreement with keeping tabs - it's free to kick tires - but that would be quite the roll of the dice, even if he returns to 80 percent of normal.

80% normal is probably still better than Larkin, though. It's better than most guys.

The contract is big, but we're actually set up pretty well right now to deal with it. We are going to have a lot of guys on ELCs or first contracts after that, we're really still a lotto team after getting him, so we'll get more talent coming in. Hell, I think we'll probably be dealing another couple of guys for picks even if we did trade for eichel.

If the offers aren't there for him and Buffalo is motivated to move him, I wonder how attractive Vrana and Washington's 1st are.
 
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SoupNazi

Serenity now. Insanity later.
Feb 6, 2010
26,341
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Here's a recent article that does a good job discussing the medical options:

Sabres might "punt" Eichel to another team - trade discount incoming?

I know a lot is speculation still, but if Buffalo really is abandoning the guy because they don't want to pay for surgery, then I hope they stay in the cellar until they sell the team to somebody who actually cares.

Agreed; good article and thanks for posting.

I've always had a soft spot for Buffalo, because I grew up 90 minutes from them and attended Sabres games with my folks growing up. How they're handling this situation is a joke and you're right that they deserve the cellar if they're dumping him off because of his surgery.
 
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jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
10,851
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I wonder if everybody in the Eichel situation continues to play chicken, and he's not dealt until right before (or even at) the draft. If anything, I'd think that might help the chances of teams that don't mind if he's not ready for training camp.

Still, a lousy situation and poor handling of it.
 

pz29

Registered User
Jun 18, 2015
505
211
Let this story be a lesson to those of us who dream of solving the Wings' problems by getting luck and drafting one star. Those players by themselves do not solve anything and eventually become unhappy and unproductive.
 
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FabricDetails

I know enough to know I know nothing
Mar 30, 2009
7,921
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I wonder if everybody in the Eichel situation continues to play chicken, and he's not dealt until right before (or even at) the draft. If anything, I'd think that might help the chances of teams that don't mind if he's not ready for training camp.

Still, a lousy situation and poor handling of it.

Re: "play chicken".

I've been wondering if perhaps this is just an excuse for both sides to separate. And that it's really not about the procedure/paying for the procedure/risk/etc.
 

19 for president

Registered User
Apr 28, 2002
2,832
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I'd be willing to do a deal of our two firsts this year and like Berggren for Eichel. I don't think that gets it done but with his injury history I hang up if Raymond, Larkin, or Seider are involved. He's enticing because he is a legit franchise player if healthy. His contract however is very messy if he isn't giving you legit first line production. It's not a huge deal if he goes LTIR, but if he comes back from his injury as say a 50pt guy, then you can't get rid of that contract and you are going to loose good players in the future because of it.

I don't think Buffalo get's what they want, because that contract with his injury history is a major gamble. Plus his contract is going to price out a lot of teams. I'd be loathe to give up our 2022 first as well with the nature of how that draft is shaping up. I mean even if you land Eichel you still have a good chance that he misses a bunch of time next year, so you don't want to miss your shot at one of those top end players in the next draft.
 

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