Player Discussion Jack Eichel Part 1

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CatsforReinhart

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Jul 27, 2014
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People shouldn't complain about Eichel as he isn't the problem on this team. He does get rattled relatively easy but hes still a top notch 1C and i'm happy hes locked up for the long term. Hes still very young and has the responsibility of being the captain.
Even though the NHL has changed, through the history of the NHL, there was always a little muscle out there to protect your best player. A forward with a bit of toughness might open the ice up for Eichel and also allow Eichel to play harder. This team doesn't have that.

Just a thought.
 
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sabrebuild

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Look at Eichel's offensive zone entries...wasn't he first or second in the NHL last year? His IQ is not the problem. The guy gets hit from behind and almost gets killed and Housley did nothing. You have to wonder what goes through Eichel's head and how much he is willing to sacrifice for this team.

I guess that assumes that you think zone entries are IQ dominant skills. Versus the tight areas of ozone battles or the choice to regularly slow things down in transition in a league where there is never enough space.

All the top stars get focused on. Having more depth is not changing Eichel’s personal stats.

But it would help the team which would be cool.
 

CatsforReinhart

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I guess that assumes that you think zone entries are IQ dominant skills. Versus the tight areas of ozone battles or the choice to regularly slow things down in transition in a league where there is never enough space.

All the top stars get focused on. Having more depth is not changing Eichel’s personal stats.

But it would help the team which would be cool.
Of course you need IQ to get to be a LEADER in zone entries. Come on, lets not be silly, decision making is a key part of zone entries.

I see you left out leader in zone entries like I said, not just zone entries.
 

Beerz

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Jun 28, 2011
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I guess that assumes that you think zone entries are IQ dominant skills. Versus the tight areas of ozone battles or the choice to regularly slow things down in transition in a league where there is never enough space.

All the top stars get focused on. Having more depth is not changing Eichel’s personal stats.

But it would help the team which would be cool.

I dont know... the difference I see from the elite.. like Crosby and McDavid is the ability to stick handle in tight areas. Eichel can stick handle when hes on the rush but when he is in closed quarters he gets in trouble. He needs to have a lot of space to operate. Not sure if its IQ but more his ability to stick handle and skate in tight quarters. Could be his size..could be his stick length..could be he just needs to keep working on those things
 
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sabrebuild

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I dont know... the difference I see from the elite.. like Crosby and McDavid is the ability to stick handle in tight areas. Eichel can stick handle when hes on the rush but when he is in closed quarters he gets in trouble. He needs to have a lot of space to operate. Not sure if its IQ but more his ability to stick handle and skate in tight quarters. Could be his size..could be his stick length..could be he just needs to keep working on those things

I think it’s completely accurate to say he has some limitations at stickhandling compared to the super elite. For sure. And it’s difficult to improve that skill at this age.

But to me the iq issues rest not so much related to his stickhandling in tight.

It’s the fact that he puts himself in that position frequently, nowhere near the net and without an obvious option.

There are a lot of times per game where he somehow still turns those dead end plays into a good outcome, at least maintaining possession.

But if he made smarter decisions away from the puck and with the puck he would get so much more production, without even needing to be a wizard with his handle.

I would love to see a breakdown between Jack, McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, let’s call them a rough breakdown of the top 10-20 offensive players. Forget defense, which is a separate issue. The analysis would be just how they attack the offensive zone, purely from a pace perspective. 2v1, 2v2, etc, and so on.

I would be blown away if Eichel wasn’t the last or bottom tier of those guys in that category.

And this is not a skating stride/big guy misunderstanding. He consistently tries to look up and slow things down as soon as he clears the red line.

Sometimes that makes sense, particularly with a late trailer. But most of the time it’s the wrong choice. It gives the defending team time to recover, which most nhl teams are very capable of. It means less time for teammates to be opened, for rebounds or general mayhem in the ozone.

Now the hard part to know without talking to him and being hands on, is that idk if that is a specific strategy he thinks will work? Because he definitely had a similar style in amateur, so it’s not something either Bylsma or Housley told him to do. And certainly not something that is being directly changed.

Or does he do that, the slow down game, so that he can look around for a long time with a ton of space because he needs the extra time to think? Which would be an indication that he has some real mental limitations.

Or is he just a little bit lazy, relative to elite professional athletes? Because at least 3 times a game there are chances offensively that would be great chances if he went all out and he chooses not to. His defensive effort, makes me take this possibility relatively seriously.

In the end it’s probably a little bit of everything, which pisses me off even more that we had a moron like Bylsma here for Eichel’s start. He needed a hard ass coach that drove him as hard as possible to start his career. Fix the bad habits, enforce a certain level of professional effort.

Instead Bylsma acted like he had a fully formed Crosby that needed no direction, and let him play like an ahole for two years, with zero consequences. Then was the time to clash, cuz who cares if we dump that coach eventually, mold the kid for Christ’s sake.

In the end he still is a good player, Seguin level at least, which is good to have. And Dahlin will be the generational guy, all good.
 

Icicle

Think big
Oct 16, 2005
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Eichel has learned his greatest skill is drawing 4 guys to him, which will always make him a better playmaker than a scorer. He also plays a perimeter and rarely goes into the slot to receive a pass. He's coming to learn who he is as a player, and this isn't a bad thing. His shot really is underutilized though, but that's not going to change playing with Skinner.
 
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sabremike

Friend To All Giraffes
Aug 30, 2010
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I think it’s completely accurate to say he has some limitations at stickhandling compared to the super elite. For sure. And it’s difficult to improve that skill at this age.

But to me the iq issues rest not so much related to his stickhandling in tight.

It’s the fact that he puts himself in that position frequently, nowhere near the net and without an obvious option.

There are a lot of times per game where he somehow still turns those dead end plays into a good outcome, at least maintaining possession.

But if he made smarter decisions away from the puck and with the puck he would get so much more production, without even needing to be a wizard with his handle.

I would love to see a breakdown between Jack, McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, let’s call them a rough breakdown of the top 10-20 offensive players. Forget defense, which is a separate issue. The analysis would be just how they attack the offensive zone, purely from a pace perspective. 2v1, 2v2, etc, and so on.

I would be blown away if Eichel wasn’t the last or bottom tier of those guys in that category.

And this is not a skating stride/big guy misunderstanding. He consistently tries to look up and slow things down as soon as he clears the red line.

Sometimes that makes sense, particularly with a late trailer. But most of the time it’s the wrong choice. It gives the defending team time to recover, which most nhl teams are very capable of. It means less time for teammates to be opened, for rebounds or general mayhem in the ozone.

Now the hard part to know without talking to him and being hands on, is that idk if that is a specific strategy he thinks will work? Because he definitely had a similar style in amateur, so it’s not something either Bylsma or Housley told him to do. And certainly not something that is being directly changed.

Or does he do that, the slow down game, so that he can look around for a long time with a ton of space because he needs the extra time to think? Which would be an indication that he has some real mental limitations.

Or is he just a little bit lazy, relative to elite professional athletes? Because at least 3 times a game there are chances offensively that would be great chances if he went all out and he chooses not to. His defensive effort, makes me take this possibility relatively seriously.

In the end it’s probably a little bit of everything, which pisses me off even more that we had a moron like Bylsma here for Eichel’s start. He needed a hard ass coach that drove him as hard as possible to start his career. Fix the bad habits, enforce a certain level of professional effort.

Instead Bylsma acted like he had a fully formed Crosby that needed no direction, and let him play like an ahole for two years, with zero consequences. Then was the time to clash, cuz who cares if we dump that coach eventually, mold the kid for Christ’s sake.

In the end he still is a good player, Seguin level at least, which is good to have. And Dahlin will be the generational guy, all good.
If he ends up being a Seguin level player then we are beyond completely f***ed. Would be like Dahlin topping out as another Ghostisbere.
 

GellMann

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Dec 16, 2014
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Jack Eichel can be the 1C on a team that can compete for a cup. I'm focused on competent management building the rest of the roster. That's what will make the difference in whether or not we get a chance to do that. Jack Eichel and the gap between him and a Matthews or McDavid will not make the difference, especially in the near future given our actual roster problems.

At the same time, he's perfectly open for criticism and deserves plenty for his play of late, even with an injury excuse.
 
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Snippit

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Eichel at the moment is already better than Seguin, offensively at least. I'd probably take him straight up too.
 

sabrebuild

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Apr 21, 2014
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Jack Eichel can be the 1C on a team that can compete for a cup. I'm focused on competent management building the rest of the roster. That's what will make the difference in whether or not we get a chance to do that. Jack Eichel and the gap between him and a Matthews or McDavid will not make the difference, especially in the near future given our actual roster problems.

At the same time, he's perfectly open for criticism and deserves plenty for his play of late, even with an injury excuse.

I would totally agree. He is/will be plenty good enough to win a cup as our top center.

He just won’t be the best center in the league. Which is still great. He can make any line he is on super dangerous when he is on his game.

It’s just frustrating because he has the tools to be the Best player in the league.

Dahlin has the look. The full package of skill and brain to be historically great. We are very lucky.
 

ORRFForever

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Oct 29, 2018
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Jack Eichel and the gap between him and a Matthews or McDavid will not make the difference, especially in the near future given our actual roster problems
While I agree there is a large gap between McDavid and Eichel, I don't think there is much of a gap between Matthews and Eichel.
 
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GellMann

Registered User
Dec 16, 2014
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While I agree there is a large gap between McDavid and Eichel, I don't think there is much of a gap between Matthews and Eichel.
I agree. So I don't think, in a failed cup run, we'll ever be in a position to say "Man, everything else was perfect, if only Eichel was one of the few 1Cs better than him." The issue will likely have been luck, or slightly worse goaltending, or a more general roster issue (lack of D mobility from Washington before additions like Kempny for example).

Jack, Sam, Skinner, Dahlin won't be the things to put the magnifying glasses on
 

sabremike

Friend To All Giraffes
Aug 30, 2010
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+1

(I deservedly lost my ability to like posts due to being insulted towards bruins fans)
I just think Jack ending up as just a run of the mill franchise center would be a crushing disappointment given what he is expected to be. And the poster pointed out he has the tools to be the best player in the league, which is exactly why we need a coach who is not an incompetent laughingstock and can get him to reach his potential. One of the biggest reasons Bedsheet Boy never accomplished anything on the island was because he never played a second for a real credible NHL coach and the flaws and bad habits in his game were never corrected and he never became the player he could've been. It would be a tragedy for Jack to suffer a similar fate and we can't allow that to happen.
 

Buff15Sabres

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Mar 23, 2017
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I just think Jack ending up as just a run of the mill franchise center would be a crushing disappointment given what he is expected to be. And the poster pointed out he has the tools to be the best player in the league, which is exactly why we need a coach who is not an incompetent laughingstock and can get him to reach his potential. One of the biggest reasons Bedsheet Boy never accomplished anything on the island was because he never played a second for a real credible NHL coach and the flaws and bad habits in his game were never corrected and he never became the player he could've been. It would be a tragedy for Jack to suffer a similar fate and we can't allow that to happen.

Eichel is never going to be the best player in the league. His peak seems to be a top 10 C, and there's nothing wrong with that. A team can definitely win a stanley cup with a #1 C like Eichel.
 

ZZamboni

Puttin' on the Foil
Sep 25, 2010
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Eichel is never going to be the best player in the league. His peak seems to be a top 10 C, and there's nothing wrong with that. A team can definitely win a stanley cup with a #1 C like Eichel.

Exactly.

Settting yourself up for disappointment because you require Eichel to be the best or top 3 center in the league year after year or you’ll be so pissed and disappointed is just weird.
 

ORRFForever

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Oct 29, 2018
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I agree. So I don't think, in a failed cup run, we'll ever be in a position to say "Man, everything else was perfect, if only Eichel was one of the few 1Cs better than him." The issue will likely have been luck, or slightly worse goaltending, or a more general roster issue (lack of D mobility from Washington before additions like Kempny for example).

Jack, Sam, Skinner, Dahlin won't be the things to put the magnifying glasses on
Matthews is amazing in spurts. He will get a bunch of points and then disappear for games on end, but people remember the spurts - like the 4 goals he got in his first game. He is also sulky and injury prone.

Eichel is less flashy, less of a goal scorer, more of a play maker. If he could up his effort (he seems lazy), he could be Matthews equal.
 
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joshjull

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Aug 2, 2005
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Hamburg,NY
I just think Jack ending up as just a run of the mill franchise center would be a crushing disappointment given what he is expected to be. And the poster pointed out he has the tools to be the best player in the league, which is exactly why we need a coach who is not an incompetent laughingstock and can get him to reach his potential. One of the biggest reasons Bedsheet Boy never accomplished anything on the island was because he never played a second for a real credible NHL coach and the flaws and bad habits in his game were never corrected and he never became the player he could've been. It would be a tragedy for Jack to suffer a similar fate and we can't allow that to happen.
“Run of the mill franchise center”
 

SabresSharks

Registered User
Oct 2, 2007
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I just want Jack to stay healthy. He's a much more complete player this season, and still has loads of upside imo.
 
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