Player Discussion Jack Eichel Part 2

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TheMistyStranger

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May 21, 2005
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Forwards have their best year, as a group, at 23*. *As measured by points.

Oh. Just points. That, to me, does not mean “peak”. Hawerchuk’s study said 25. Either way, I still disagree with the statement. Far too broad of a brush. Pierre Turgeon has 40 more points as a 24 year old than a 23 year old. Lafontaine had 43 more points as a 26 year old than a 23 year old. Gretzky had more points at 26 as well. Hell, Wayne Simmonds had more points at ages 25-28 than he did at 23.
 

dotcommunism

Moderator
Aug 16, 2007
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As I recall, the idea is that players tend to peak earlier in points production when they come into the league younger. The idea that players peak in point production at 23 only applies to players who come into the league at 18, I think. Of course, peaking in point production is not the same thing as peaking as a player.

That said, I also think people make too much about the idea of a player's "peak". First off, those are general trends and aren't going to describe every player's career path. More importantly, just because a player has reached his hypothetical "peak" doesn't mean he magically turns into a pumpkin. All sorts of players have years of sustained excellence. Our hope is that Eichel is one of those players, so who really cares if he's "peaked"? Is it really a tragedy if Eichel never gets any better than he is now? Because right now he's pretty f***ing good.
 
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buffalowing88

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Aug 11, 2008
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As I recall, the idea is that players tend to peak earlier in points production when they come into the league younger. The idea that players peak in point production at 23 only applies to players who come into the league at 18, I think. Of course, peaking in point production is not the same thing as peaking as a player.

That said, I also think people make too much about the idea of a player's "peak". First off, those are general trends and aren't going to describe every player's career path. More importantly, just because a player has reached his hypothetical "peak" doesn't mean he magically turns into a pumpkin. All sorts of players have years of sustained excellence. Our hope is that Eichel is one of those players, so who really cares if he's "peaked"? Is it really a tragedy if Eichel never gets any better than he is now? Because right now he's pretty f***ing good.

I agree with most of what you're saying but it absolutely is a tragedy that we couldn't have given the guy a playoff berth, if nothing else, when he was at his most productive. I just hate this organization so much at this point. We screwed him so bad. I don't care about the contract. He deserved better.
 

buffalowing88

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Aug 11, 2008
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Oh. Just points. That, to me, does not mean “peak”. Hawerchuk’s study said 25. Either way, I still disagree with the statement. Far too broad of a brush. Pierre Turgeon has 40 more points as a 24 year old than a 23 year old. Lafontaine had 43 more points as a 26 year old than a 23 year old. Gretzky had more points at 26 as well. Hell, Wayne Simmonds had more points at ages 25-28 than he did at 23.

But you are cherrypicking here. The vast majority of elite talents hit their peak within one year of 23.Bringing Simmonds into this comparison is ridiculous and then to mention LaFontaine's "peak" when it happened to be in an expansion year in which plenty of players peaked is ridiculous.

Look up the scoring in 92-93. Half the guys in the top 20 would never duplicate that again.

Eichel is at his absolute peak at 23. That's it. He can obviously still put up a ton of points, but we've seen his best and that was this season. It's a shame.
 

HaNotsri

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Dec 29, 2013
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If we're just counting points better teammates can probably boost Eichels totals more than anything else. More pp time, riding the momentum etc

The point peak for an individual player isn't that easy to predict.
 
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TheMistyStranger

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May 21, 2005
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But you are cherrypicking here. The vast majority of elite talents hit their peak within one year of 23.Bringing Simmonds into this comparison is ridiculous and then to mention LaFontaine's "peak" when it happened to be in an expansion year in which plenty of players peaked is ridiculous.

Look up the scoring in 92-93. Half the guys in the top 20 would never duplicate that again.

Eichel is at his absolute peak at 23. That's it. He can obviously still put up a ton of points, but we've seen his best and that was this season. It's a shame.

It wasn’t cherry picked. I honestly just looked up the first few players I could think of.

Read some of the other comments on this page, too. A player peaking offensively is hard to predict, especially on a team with as much dead weight as this one had. I’m guessing Jack will put up more ppg in the future than he did this past season, and be a more complete player. Judging when a player will have their best offensive season isn’t plug and play. There are many variables that matter.
 

SnuggaRUDE

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Apr 5, 2013
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It's possible that examining individual players will provide a more robust tool to assess player performance than looking at the combined statistics of all forwards.
 
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jputt99

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Nov 24, 2016
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I've read several stories online about Minnesota and Arizona dreaming about acquiring Jack . Fans and media have gone through all sorts of trade scenarios . With all the frustration of the past nine years , now we have to deal with other organizations trying to steal what talent the franchise has . If Buffalo doesn't realize some success with Jack next season , the Sabres organization may never recover .
 
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AustonsNostrils

Registered User
Apr 5, 2016
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The unthinkable is now a real possibility thanks to Terry and Kim Pegula and their handpicked GM. The Sabres make the playoffs next season or Jack is gone. You can comfort yourself with the fact that the Sabres have him under contract for more years but it will mean nothing - an unhappy franchise player who wants out is an untenable situation. 6 years in the league without tasting the playoffs in a league where 16 teams do for a player of his talent is unacceptable and he will be justified in his demand for a trade.

Retaining Botterill for next season was the biggest ***K YOU any owner has ever given Sabres fans.
 

sabremike

Friend To All Giraffes
Aug 30, 2010
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I've read several stories online about Minnesota and Arizona dreaming about acquiring Jack . Fans and media have gone through all sorts of trade scenarios . With all the frustration of the past nine years , now we have to deal with other organizations trying to steal what talent the franchise has . If Buffalo doesn't realize some success with Jack next season , the Sabres organization may never recover .
Jack will end up in Arizona...

On the same day Grimsby Town signs Messi.

Seriously.
 

Zach716

Pucks in deep
Nov 24, 2018
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I've read several stories online about Minnesota and Arizona dreaming about acquiring Jack . Fans and media have gone through all sorts of trade scenarios .

Neither team has the assets that would be needed without absolutely gutting them
 

Gras

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Neither team has the assets that would be needed without absolutely gutting them
It would probably be multiple futures or a lager multiplayer swap on both sides, if something like this would ever come in to fruition.
 

Jim Bob

RIP RJ
Feb 27, 2002
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I've read several stories online about Minnesota and Arizona dreaming about acquiring Jack . Fans and media have gone through all sorts of trade scenarios . With all the frustration of the past nine years , now we have to deal with other organizations trying to steal what talent the franchise has . If Buffalo doesn't realize some success with Jack next season , the Sabres organization may never recover .

Minnesota and Arizona are as likely to trade for Jack as the Sabres are of trading for McDavid to play with Jack.
 

TheMistyStranger

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May 21, 2005
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Minnesota and Arizona are as likely to trade for Jack as the Sabres are of trading for McDavid to play with Jack.

For fun, I was looking at ARI on Capfriendly. The only valuable trading assets they have are signed to big money deals. Schmaltz, Dvorak, Fischer, soderstom, 1st, 1st? That’s a stupid deal for Buffalo, even if it does give some forward depth. Nothing even begins to make sense.
 

rinaldo

Ignored Mmber
Apr 7, 2019
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if he were to be moved the flyers can put a deal together. They have players, picks, and prospects.
 

rinaldo

Ignored Mmber
Apr 7, 2019
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please present a potential deal that you would think is adequate...
I am just spit balling here so go easy...not sure what buffalo is looking for

vorachek
sanheim
ghost
frost
2- 1st rd picks
another mid to high end prospect?

the flyers parts can be altered.

for

Eichel - Risto - Tage thompson

Now i am sure i am in the minority from a flyers view though i would move couterier in a deal for Eichel.
 

OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
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I am just spit balling here so go easy...not sure what buffalo is looking for

vorachek
sanheim
ghost
frost
2- 1st rd picks
another mid to high end prospect?

the flyers parts can be altered.

for

Eichel - Risto - Tage thompson

Now i am sure i am in the minority from a flyers view though i would move couterier in a deal for Eichel.

thanks for offer.

if we’re trading Eichel we are going to require a #1 center player back due to our current hole behind him. So I’d assume Courtier would need to be required to come back.

Not to mention, we would be turning back the clock and getting younger, so as much as I like Vorachek, switching him with Konency is the route we would probably take. Add in 2 1st rounders (not protected) and that would be the core of the trade for Eichel.

and just as a heads up, Risto and Thompson for me are up for a trade but I’d want to focus on the Jack part.
 

truthbluth

Registered User
Feb 2, 2011
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thanks for offer.

if we’re trading Eichel we are going to require a #1 center player back due to our current hole behind him. So I’d assume Courtier would need to be required to come back.

Not to mention, we would be turning back the clock and getting younger, so as much as I like Vorachek, switching him with Konency is the route we would probably take. Add in 2 1st rounders (not protected) and that would be the core of the trade for Eichel.

and just as a heads up, Risto and Thompson for me are up for a trade but I’d want to focus on the Jack part.
A Couturier based trade is something I’d get behind. The contract makes it very risky, but I would do it.
 

Fjordy

Registered User
Jun 20, 2018
15,227
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Couturier is a great player, but two years before the end of the contract, and then what? If he wants to just leave after two years, we will be left without Jack and without Couturier, this will finally kill us. There is either a more futures package with young controlled players, or a very strong player, but with a fairly long contract.
 
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