Player Discussion Jack Eichel Part 2

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Zman5778

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Bruins fan here.

I completely agree with a lot of what has been said here - Eichel's injury will not have an impact on the potential return no matter what the fans of other teams say, and since his NMC hasn't kicked in yet, he will get a very nice haul IF he were to be traded. Most Bruins fans are vehemently against it, but I truly think the conversation would have to start with someone like Pastrnak. This is purely hypothetical, but is Pastrnak and a 1st round pick around the type of value an Eichel trade would land?

Pasta and Swayman or Vladar? I hate to say it, but this would be the type of trade to do. Get a similarly talented player on the wing, add a little.

Yeah, his dirt cheap contract expires in 2 years, but in 2 years we'll know who to give out big money contracts to besides Pasta and Dahlin.
 

TheMistyStranger

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I listened to all of the pressers, as much of a roller coaster as that turned out to be, and I just don't get what Jack's thinking on this one. It's such a risky surgery - not for us normies, but for an elite athlete. If he has the surgery done and he loses range of motion in his neck, is he really going to be happy being less of a player? Knowing now that the window for a natural recovery is still open, I really don't understand his point of view. He comes off as a petulant child who doesn't like being told no. Veruca Eichel.
 

duckpuck

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Ducks fan coming in peace (and sympathy for two awful teams). In a trade for Eichel, what are the Sabres positional needs (other than filling the hole at center created by trading Eichel)?

I don't think there's any way the ducks trade Zegras or Drysdale - though no doubt that is who Buffalo would want. I'm wondering if a trade centered around Gibson/Lindholm (one not both) plus the 2021 first round pick (guaranteed top 4) is an attractive starting point?

I think the ducks can put together a nice package with a combination of useful veterans in their prime (Rakell, Manson), some younger players with potential (Terry, Jones and possibly Comtois) with some futures. That would help Buffalo avoid a full rebuild. But we can't (or shouldn't) offer an elite player - sadly we don't have a player like Pasternak and the young kids are just too important.

Ducks could also take back a contract like Okposo (not Skinner) but obviously that would reduce the other pieces.

Are the teams a match?
 

SnuggaRUDE

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Ducks fan coming in peace (and sympathy for two awful teams). In a trade for Eichel, what are the Sabres positional needs (other than filling the hole at center created by trading Eichel)?

I don't think there's any way the ducks trade Zegras or Drysdale - though no doubt that is who Buffalo would want. I'm wondering if a trade centered around Gibson/Lindholm (one not both) plus the 2021 first round pick (guaranteed top 4) is an attractive starting point?

I think the ducks can put together a nice package with a combination of useful veterans in their prime (Rakell, Manson), some younger players with potential (Terry, Jones and possibly Comtois) with some futures. That would help Buffalo avoid a full rebuild. But we can't (or shouldn't) offer an elite player - sadly we don't have a player like Pasternak and the young kids are just too important.

Ducks could also take back a contract like Okposo (not Skinner) but obviously that would reduce the other pieces.

Are the teams a match?

Buffalo should trade for Zegras, and give Anaheim a combination of useful veterans in their prime and some younger players with potential. Maybe centered around Olafsson and Ristolainen? But they shouldn't offer an elite player.

Do you think I'd be well received if I wandered onto the ducks board with that?
 
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duckpuck

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Buffalo should trade for Zegras, and give Anaheim a combination of useful veterans in their prime and some younger players with potential. But they shouldn't offer an elite player.

Do you think I'd be well received if I wandered onto the ducks board with that?

No. But Gibson and Lindholm are pretty elite, notwithstanding their bad numbers the past two years when the ducks have been awful. I can assure you that ducks fans don't want to trade either as they are perceived as part of the long term future. Gibson has a very good contract which adds value. And the 2021 first is going to be another very good player who might be a partial replacement for Eichel (Berniers). So I reject your premise that all I proposed were "useful" players.

And the ducks and sabres may be in different places (not sure which is why I asked). The ducks are in rebuild mode - I think the Sabres may want to contend/retool. If Sabres are in rebuild mode, then the teams are not a match.

The bottom line is that if Eichel is traded, its very unlikely Buffalo gets as good a player in return. Maybe Seth Jones or Pasternak or Laine are possible I suppose (??) , but those trades are rare. And even then I think Eichel's the best player other than perhaps Jones. So its really just a question of how teams make up the difference. Do the Sabres want NHL ready players to fill in a playoff team (Manson, Rakell) or strictly futures?
 

Uberpecker

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No. But Gibson and Lindholm are pretty elite, notwithstanding their bad numbers the past two years when the ducks have been awful. I can assure you that ducks fans don't want to trade either as they are perceived as part of the long term future. Gibson has a very good contract which adds value. And the 2021 first is going to be another very good player who might be a partial replacement for Eichel (Berniers). So I reject your premise that all I proposed were "useful" players.

And the ducks and sabres may be in different places (not sure which is why I asked). The ducks are in rebuild mode - I think the Sabres may want to contend/retool. If Sabres are in rebuild mode, then the teams are not a match.

The bottom line is that if Eichel is traded, its very unlikely Buffalo gets as good a player in return. Maybe Seth Jones or Pasternak or Laine are possible I suppose (??) , but those trades are rare. And even then I think Eichel's the best player other than perhaps Jones. So its really just a question of how teams make up the difference. Do the Sabres want NHL ready players to fill in a playoff team (Manson, Rakell) or strictly futures?
Zegras + or no deal. That's the need from Buffalo regarding which you inquired. And please save your explanations for the trade board.
 
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SnuggaRUDE

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No. But Gibson and Lindholm are pretty elite, notwithstanding their bad numbers the past two years when the ducks have been awful. I can assure you that ducks fans don't want to trade either as they are perceived as part of the long term future. Gibson has a very good contract which adds value. And the 2021 first is going to be another very good player who might be a partial replacement for Eichel (Berniers). So I reject your premise that all I proposed were "useful" players.

And the ducks and sabres may be in different places (not sure which is why I asked). The ducks are in rebuild mode - I think the Sabres may want to contend/retool. If Sabres are in rebuild mode, then the teams are not a match.

The bottom line is that if Eichel is traded, its very unlikely Buffalo gets as good a player in return. Maybe Seth Jones or Pasternak or Laine are possible I suppose (??) , but those trades are rare. And even then I think Eichel's the best player other than perhaps Jones. So its really just a question of how teams make up the difference. Do the Sabres want NHL ready players to fill in a playoff team (Manson, Rakell) or strictly futures?

You're suggesting players who are UFA (Rakell, Manson, Lindholm), and Gibson, after next season. If Buffalo is having trouble keeping players why would you possibly think they want to take on Anaheim's headaches to resign?

Any UFA from Buffalo you'd like to trade for Zegras? They can throw in Skinner, who's pretty elite if you ignore his bad numbers the last two years.
 
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SnuggaRUDE

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Zegras + or no deal. That's the need from Buffalo regarding which you inquired. And please save your explanations for the trade board.

I think Anaheim can make a deal without Zegras, but it isn't going to based on Rakell and Lindholm, or at least for Buffalo's sake it shouldn't be.
 
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duckpuck

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You're suggesting players who are UFA (Rakell, Manson, Lindholm), and Gibson, after next season. If Buffalo is having trouble keeping players why would you possibly think they want to take on Anaheim's headaches to resign?

Any UFA from Buffalo you'd like to trade for Zegras? They can throw in Skinner, who's pretty elite if you ignore his bad numbers the last two years.

Gibson is signed to a long term below market deal. And the other players, which could be part of a package not the centerpieces, have reasonable contracts IF Buffalo wants to compete next year. As I said, there would have to be other pieces (and possibly a bad contract like Okposo going the other way), but those guys do help Buffalo next year IF that is a goal.

Skinner is pretty close to untradeable unless you package him with Eichel and don't expect much back. Good luck with that

Zegras + or no deal. That's the need from Buffalo regarding which you inquired. And please save your explanations for the trade board.

Fair enough. I'll leave you to your angst.
 

enthusiast

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Eichel is one of those players where you don't say "X is off the table" unless said X is a player that would render the trade for Eichel a lateral move for the team (or downgrade ofc)

now, if he holds out...
 

Fjordy

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Gibson is signed to a long term below market deal. And the other players, which could be part of a package not the centerpieces, have reasonable contracts IF Buffalo wants to compete next year. As I said, there would have to be other pieces (and possibly a bad contract like Okposo going the other way), but those guys do help Buffalo next year IF that is a goal.

Skinner is pretty close to untradeable unless you package him with Eichel and don't expect much back. Good luck with that
This makes no sense. We are far from competing seriously and players like Lindholm, Manson or Rakell are simply not suitable, as in a year they will leave for free or will most likely be traded in the deadline. We need young players who match the ages of Dahlin, Cozens, Mittelstadt, Jokiharju and the rest of the young core.
 

CrazyPsycho

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Fair enough. I'll leave you to your angst.

Welcome to the Sabres board. Salt central.

I think Gibson is truly an elite goalie (or has been), any explanation to his play this year? Definitely didn't look the same goalie as previous years. Could be heading down the regression path no? Sabres have been burned too many times in the long term deals for me to trust it no matter who it is.
 

SackTastic

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Gibson is signed to a long term below market deal. And the other players, which could be part of a package not the centerpieces, have reasonable contracts IF Buffalo wants to compete next year. As I said, there would have to be other pieces (and possibly a bad contract like Okposo going the other way), but those guys do help Buffalo next year IF that is a goal.

Skinner is pretty close to untradeable unless you package him with Eichel and don't expect much back. Good luck with that

Fair enough. I'll leave you to your angst.

If they are going to trade a play of Eichel's caliber, they are absolutely not going to do it for rental pieces to chase 'next year'. They are going to do it for substantial building block assets to compete for multiple years.
 

Dirty Dog

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The idea that a team would take zegras off the table is funny. If everything goes right...he won’t be in the same tier of player as eichel.

why wouldn’t you take eichel and have him for the next ten years. I’d trade Cozens in a heart beat for a player like eichel. Or our 1st rounder this year. It isn’t even close
 

Montag DP

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The idea that a team would take zegras off the table is funny. If everything goes right...he won’t be in the same tier of player as eichel.

why wouldn’t you take eichel and have him for the next ten years. I’d trade Cozens in a heart beat for a player like eichel. Or our 1st rounder this year. It isn’t even close
Fans always overestimate the value of their own prospects on HFBoards. No mystery there.
 

Dirty Dog

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Fans always overestimate the value of their own prospects on HFBoards. No mystery there.

do you want to fast forward the development of zegras five years and have him ready to go....and way better than his ceiling?!

nah, I’ll take my chances and hope zegras one day becomes almost as good
 

duckpuck

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Welcome to the Sabres board. Salt central.

I think Gibson is truly an elite goalie (or has been), any explanation to his play this year? Definitely didn't look the same goalie as previous years. Could be heading down the regression path no? Sabres have been burned too many times in the long term deals for me to trust it no matter who it is.

There is no way to accurately convey just how bad the ducks have been in front of gibson the past 2 years. The lack of puck possession and scoring, combined with really bad defense (and injuries to the top defenseman) have left him on an island. Gibson knows he needs to steal virtually every game. Gibson has worn down from playing under those circumstances and that's partly on him, but he'll be awesome with a real team ahead of him. Even in losses and this terrible 2 year stretch for the ducks, Gibson has still shown elite play, albeit not as consistently as before.

The idea that a team would take zegras off the table is funny. If everything goes right...he won’t be in the same tier of player as eichel.

why wouldn’t you take eichel and have him for the next ten years. I’d trade Cozens in a heart beat for a player like eichel. Or our 1st rounder this year. It isn’t even close

If everything goes right, Zegras will be in the same tier as Eichel. That's a big if - but it is accurate. And based on his early play, he seems on track for that. And for the record, I did include the ducks pick in this year's draft in my proposal (which would be in the 2-4 range) in addition to other pieces like Gibson.

The issue for the ducks is if they trade Zegras, they have very little elite talent to add around Eichel. As I mentioned, it could well be that the ducks just don't have the pieces to make a deal at this stage of their rebuild. A team like the Kings probably does. Totally understandable for Sabres fans to want a different type of package from a different team.

Fans always overestimate the value of their own prospects on HFBoards. No mystery there.

Part of the value of a player is their contract. The early cheap years of a player bring huge value because it allows the team to add additional pieces. The fact that Eichel makes $10M is relevant. In the same way that fans overvalue prospects (true), they also ignore contracts and term and injury history.
 
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Montag DP

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Part of the value of a player is their contract. The early cheap years of a player bring huge value because it allows the team to add additional pieces. The fact that Eichel makes $10M is relevant. In the same way that fans overvalue prospects (true), they also ignore contracts and term and injury history.
Eichel is a steal at $10M, and he's under contract for 5 more years. I don't see how that changes the discussion in Zegras' favor.
 

Sabre Dance

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Part of the value of a player is their contract. The early cheap years of a player bring huge value because it allows the team to add additional pieces. The fact that Eichel makes $10M is relevant. In the same way that fans overvalue prospects (true), they also ignore contracts and term and injury history.
If the prospects produce as Eichel produces that contract value goes up quickly. So yeah 1-2 years on the entry level deal is great but are you going to get 80-100 points? No, Zegras probably gives the Ducks 30-50, then maybe 50-70. Then he's signing a contract close to Eichel.

Likelihood is that he doesn't ever become more than a 50-70 point player though.
 

Dirty Dog

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If everything goes right, Zegras will be in the same tier as Eichel. That's a big if - but it is accurate. And based on his early play, he seems on track for that. And for the record, I did include the ducks pick in this year's draft in my proposal (which would be in the 2-4 range) in addition to other pieces like Gibson.

The issue for the ducks is if they trade Zegras, they have very little elite talent to add around Eichel.

That is completely circular logic. You don't want to give up zegras because you would only have one elite talent forward? Sure, but that is the same boat as if you would trade for eichel (you'd still have one elite talent at forward).

And that is a very big if that zegras reaches the talent level of eichel.


I'd trade a talent level like Zegras for an established eichel 10/10 times, regardless of the situation. You'd be crazy not too
 

debaser66

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There is no way to accurately convey just how bad the ducks have been in front of gibson the past 2 years. The lack of puck possession and scoring, combined with really bad defense (and injuries to the top defenseman) have left him on an island. Gibson knows he needs to steal virtually every game. Gibson has worn down from playing under those circumstances and that's partly on him, but he'll be awesome with a real team ahead of him. Even in losses and this terrible 2 year stretch for the ducks, Gibson has still shown elite play, albeit not as consistently as before.



If everything goes right, Zegras will be in the same tier as Eichel. That's a big if - but it is accurate. And based on his early play, he seems on track for that. And for the record, I did include the ducks pick in this year's draft in my proposal (which would be in the 2-4 range) in addition to other pieces like Gibson.

The issue for the ducks is if they trade Zegras, they have very little elite talent to add around Eichel. As I mentioned, it could well be that the ducks just don't have the pieces to make a deal at this stage of their rebuild. A team like the Kings probably does. Totally understandable for Sabres fans to want a different type of package from a different team.



Part of the value of a player is their contract. The early cheap years of a player bring huge value because it allows the team to add additional pieces. The fact that Eichel makes $10M is relevant. In the same way that fans overvalue prospects (true), they also ignore contracts and term and injury history.
Eichel is a franchise center, Zegras ceiling is elite which is one tier below
 
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Sabre Dance

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Trying to think of comparable players traded and it brought me to Joe Thornton. Yikes. But the Bruins became a better team because of it, even though they gave him away for nothing.
 

threeVo

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Ducks fan coming in peace (and sympathy for two awful teams). In a trade for Eichel, what are the Sabres positional needs (other than filling the hole at center created by trading Eichel)?

I don't think there's any way the ducks trade Zegras or Drysdale - though no doubt that is who Buffalo would want. I'm wondering if a trade centered around Gibson/Lindholm (one not both) plus the 2021 first round pick (guaranteed top 4) is an attractive starting point?

I think the ducks can put together a nice package with a combination of useful veterans in their prime (Rakell, Manson), some younger players with potential (Terry, Jones and possibly Comtois) with some futures. That would help Buffalo avoid a full rebuild. But we can't (or shouldn't) offer an elite player - sadly we don't have a player like Pasternak and the young kids are just too important.

Ducks could also take back a contract like Okposo (not Skinner) but obviously that would reduce the other pieces.

Are the teams a match?
Eichel + Risto for Zegras + Gibson + 1st
 
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