Post-Game Talk: It's true Jets lose 4-2

[Ducky10]

The type of defensive zone coverage taught by Maurice/Huddy has been discussed a bit here over the years - as there has always been noticeable breakdowns. Some still believe that we use a basic man2man , while many (including myself) believe it is a hybrid. This means the D and C play man2man below the dots, with the forwards playing a loose zone between the dots and the blueline. If it is a hybrid, the D should not chase their man above the dots but rather release him to the forward. So in my mind , this was a breakdown by Morrissey, as you suggest.

If the coaches are in fact teaching a basic man2man, with all the rotation necessary as identified by Surixon, I could see two fundamental problems, Firstly, high danger scoring chances-against would go up as the rotation would lead directly to mismatches (ie the forward rotating down to netfront and having to box out or tie up the stick of an attacker-something that he has probably never done ). And secondly, after we regained puck possession, a structured quick breakout and transition would be seriously hindered ( our players starting from something quite different than their normal positions).

It is noteworthy that problems occured with our previous roster and continue with our current weakened roster - so I conclude the root cause rests with the coaching itself and not so much the players.

The Jets have had their lunch eaten the past two games by teams playing an overload in the D zone. The premise behind playing any kind of m2m, whether it's a strict one or a hybrid, is to put constant pressure on the puck to create turnovers and quick transition. The issue the Jets have had with it last year and so far this year, is having too many slower D men who can't keep up with that system and who don't have the ability to get them into transition fast enough when turnovers do happen. They also seem to be lost positioning wise once they've been forced into a number of switches, which also hampers their transition game.

At the end of the day the Jets real D scheme is to not play D at all. Hard back pressure, tight gaps, quick retrieval and either skate it out or move it up quickly. Haven't seen it consistently since 2017-18.

 

[DannyGallivan]

The Jets aren't getting outmuscled on the back end, they're getting outskilled. The last two games the whole team has had way too many breakdowns and have been largely outworked.

You have to actually engage in physical activity to be outmuscled.
...and yes,they've been outworked as well as not knowing where they should even be on the play.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Poolman and Morrissey have both been a mess in their own zone since they've been paired together. Looks like a complete lack of chemistry and/or Poolman not ready for top line minutes. He looked much better and more confident playing a sheltered role with Heinola.

I advocated for trying Poolman with Morrissey on the theory that he is at least good defensively. But if that isn't working, try something else. Putting Poolman in a situation to fail does no one any good.

Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of better looking options but I think JMo and Pionk were actually not too bad together.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We scored 2 PP goals and they scored 2 PP goals. They controlled us most of the night 5v5 though. Kept a lot to the outside and played a very solid system and never really chased the puck. Which I can't say for us especially on the 2 even strength goals they scored. Needed a dirty goal in there somewhere in this type of game but we never really seemed likely to get that.

Ehlers/Connor got their faces caved in most of the night especially if Copp wasn't out there with them.
I thought Lowry had a hell of a game
Gus was good. Really good int he faceoff dot. Too bad he didn't get to play more

The D was ok but they don't get much help from a forward group that is sometimes so incapable of making a simple play to get out of the zone it costs them. I think it cost us 2 goals tonight.

It is going to be a rollercoaster of a season. People better get used to it.

Yup - a very long roller-coaster.

I just hope we are not wrecking the confidence of potentially good young players by forcing all of our D to play over their heads.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

No neither is Chariot, the whole argument is why Chevy (and TNSE) thought going into the 19-20 season with only 3 top 4 D was a prudent decision.

Niku and Poolman still unproven at the NHL level even for a bottom pairing, Beaulieu a bottom pairing guy at best, Bitetto and Dahlstrom desperate gambles who are barely bottom six capable, no one saw the emergence of Heinola as a possibility and he looked better than most of the guys but now doesn't play for reasons known only to Maurice!

In the case of Heinola, how does a guy go from playing over 19 minutes a game through his first 5 NHL games to sitting in the press box for the last 3 games of which 2 the Jets have lost badly!

Maurice is an idiot!

Come on Sip! You know full well that an 18 YO kid needs to be punished for allowing himself to be tripped if the puck ends up in our net. Don't want kids developing too much confidence now, do we.

Shouldn't be necessary, but you never know so I will use and

I don't really believe Maurice is an idiot - but he certainly does some idiotic things some times.
Bad as our D was, it was a lot better with Heinola in - an 18 YO rookie!

 

[ThinIce61]

How about they are not buying into PoMo's line useage and system...Maybe PomO has lost the dressing room????

There are signs everywhere, no? All PoMo has to do is follow the signs and he'll find the dressing room. And the players are paid damn good money to play the system slid out for them. They make more money than people who save lives.

It's always easier to blame one guy rather than 20 players and it's also pretty easy for 20 guys to suck just bad enough on purpose to get someone fired just because they don't like the fact the system put in place means they actually have to work and their balls sweat a bit.

The players people want to see traded are for the most part players no one else wants ( Pereault, Kulikov) and every team has those same level of players on offer themselves.

The Jets were very limited in what they could do to bolster the team in the off season no matter what way you want to spin it to make Chevy/PoMo look bad.
This isn't fantasy with ridiculous trade after ridiculous trade where player values are so far over the norm that you see trades that if hockey goes on for a trillion years you'd never see.

Very likely this is a barely .500 team up until and maybe even after Buff decides what he is going to do. Regardless of the situation Buff keeping the team in limbo really isn't cool, almost like he has a bone to pick and he's decided hurting the organization is the thing to do.
Just my take but if there were locker room problems last season, and there were quite a few egos crammed into that room, unless the problems revolved around, Trouba, Myers, Chiarot, Hayes or Tanev, then they will resurface, if and when Buff comes back.

Ultimately while blaming the coach is always the way to go it isn't necessarily the right solution and the players on the ice, every last one of them share the blame for the teams somewhat lacklustre start regardless of the creepy man crushes so e of you have on some players are always blameless in your eyes.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

An NHL team with three top 4 D and one bottom pairing guy in their top 4 isn’t uncommon imo........I mean the Jets have never had four top 4 D or at its arguably if they did. One could argue some of the Penguins cup teams didn’t have four top 4 D on their teams.

Ville is an easy answer and it’s nothing to do with PMO......it’s development and cap. I said a similar thing in the Ville thread.....he is being sent to the Moose or Finland imo.....

Yeah, but Sip was wrong. We don't have 3 top 4 Dmen. If we had Buff we would have 2. Unless Ville is one.

You are probably right that Ville is being sent down. But why? He has been our 2nd best Dman fcs! Why has he been PB'ed for the last 3 games?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Isn’t Maurice’s PK scheme to stand around and let the other team fire away?

Yes, but they are supposed to block shots while they are standing around, not get out of their way.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Raising my hand...I was one of those who thought Myers/Chiarot were meh to blech. Like you said, you don't know a good thing until it's gone....

We aren't missing Chia and Myers nearly as much as we are missing Trouba and Buff. If Bowloo and Niku were healthy and Mau would play Heinola, we might not be missing those 2 at all. We would still be missing Trouba and Buff, but that is another story.

 

[Eyeseeing]

How about they are not buying into PoMo's line useage and system...Maybe PomO has lost the dressing room????

Valid point.
Prepare to get roasted for it.

 

[Jets 31]

There are signs everywhere, no? All PoMo has to do is follow the signs and he'll find the dressing room. And the players are paid damn good money to play the system slid out for them. They make more money than people who save lives.

It's always easier to blame one guy rather than 20 players and it's also pretty easy for 20 guys to suck just bad enough on purpose to get someone fired just because they don't like the fact the system put in place means they actually have to work and their balls sweat a bit.

The players people want to see traded are for the most part players no one else wants ( Pereault, Kulikov) and every team has those same level of players on offer themselves.

The Jets were very limited in what they could do to bolster the team in the off season no matter what way you want to spin it to make Chevy/PoMo look bad.
This isn't fantasy with ridiculous trade after ridiculous trade where player values are so far over the norm that you see trades that if hockey goes on for a trillion years you'd never see.

Very likely this is a barely .500 team up until and maybe even after Buff decides what he is going to do. Regardless of the situation Buff keeping the team in limbo really isn't cool, almost like he has a bone to pick and he's decided hurting the organization is the thing to do.
Just my take but if there were locker room problems last season, and there were quite a few egos crammed into that room, unless the problems revolved around, Trouba, Myers, Chiarot, Hayes or Tanev, then they will resurface, if and when Buff comes back.

Ultimately while blaming the coach is always the way to go it isn't necessarily the right solution and the players on the ice, every last one of them share the blame for the teams somewhat lacklustre start regardless of the creepy man crushes so e of you have on some players are always blameless in your eyes.

Thing is we don't know for sure what Buff is dealing with and we may never find out . I really don't think Buff is a problem in the room as a matter of fact didn't he help get rid of one problem in the room , Kane . Don't think he's gonna care if guys show up late and then turn around and be a problem himself .

 

[BB88]

agreed

Not sure how anyone here can be surprised by what they’re seeing so far........the roller coaster is just starting so people better buckle up.

I was absolute amazed by the comments on defense during pre season.
Lot of "fake" hope.

Pre season is the most useless time in hockey.

This was expected, and this has only been the easy strecth on schedule.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Yup - a very long roller-coaster.

I just hope we are not wrecking the confidence of potentially good young players by forcing all of our D to play over their heads.

You can't play young players over vets and then worry about shattering their confidence

 

[Hunter368]

Yeah, but Sip was wrong. We don't have 3 top 4 Dmen. If we had Buff we would have 2. Unless Ville is one.

You are probably right that Ville is being sent down. But why? He has been our 2nd best Dman fcs! Why has he been PB'ed for the last 3 games?

Not saying people should agree......but it's clearly one of two reasons or a combo of both....... development & cap.

 

[Hunter368]

I was absolute amazed by the comments on defense during pre season.
Lot of "fake" hope.

Pre season is the most useless time in hockey.

This was expected, and this has only been the easy strecth on schedule.

I've been saying for months now this team is at best a bubble team aka a wild card at best (And that was before the Buff news I said that)........no one should be surprised or shocked with the current results. Boggles my mind all these comments now........outside of the high number of games we've played to-date this stretch of games has been vs weak teams.........just wait it's going to get worse. It's like some people just woke up from last season and didn't realize what happened during the offseason.

 

[ffh]

How do you PoMO didn't ask Chevy to sign those players?

coaches don't talk to agents gms do. its so much easier to hate Maurice for chevys failings isn't it.

 

[winnipegger]

It's not a freakin mystery. We lost Trouba and Buff. Went from a top 10 D in the league to bottom 5. Hope Laine keeps it up though he's been great.

 

[Jeti]

We aren't missing Chia and Myers nearly as much as we are missing Trouba and Buff. If Bowloo and Niku were healthy and Mau would play Heinola, we might not be missing those 2 at all. We would still be missing Trouba and Buff, but that is another story.

Can you imagine a second pairing of Chiarot-Myers? Or even more likely, Myers on the first pair? It'd be just as bad as what they have now, only way more expensive and signed to long terrible contracts.

 

[Psych0dad]

It's not a freakin mystery. We lost Trouba and Buff. Went from a top 10 D in the league to bottom 5. Hope Laine keeps it up though he's been great.

Not just Trouba and Buff either, out of last years starting top 5 only Morrissey stayed. Even Chiarot was a 5th D last season in depth charts. So losing 4/5 is a massive loss to any team. Pionk and Niku can maybe help with the loss of Myers and Trouba but there's no viable replacements for the others.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You can't play young players over vets and then worry about shattering their confidence

Its a fine line. Shattering their confidence is a concern if you try to push them too far too soon. That's what the AHL is for.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Not saying people should agree......but it's clearly one of two reasons or a combo of both....... development & cap.

What does it have to do with the cap? He has a 925k cap hit.

Development is another matter. He certainly hasn't looked out of his depth but we can't see everything.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I've been saying for months now this team is at best a bubble team aka a wild card at best (And that was before the Buff news I said that)........no one should be surprised or shocked with the current results. Boggles my mind all these comments now........outside of the high number of games we've played to-date this stretch of games has been vs weak teams.........just wait it's going to get worse. It's like some people just woke up from last season and didn't realize what happened during the offseason.

The defence aside, the whole team looks unorganized, uninspired and not engaged.
How many games have we looked like a team with a system?, a plan?
One game perhaps?
This team is playing like death by a 1000 paper cuts.... feeling Noelesque right now
Slow painful demise

 

[winnipegger]

It feels like the 15 - 16 Jets right now. Really young, not a lot of physicality, and defensively suspect.

 

[bennylundholm]

Lots of question marks:
Scheif is suspect at times: losing draws, poor defense.
Wheels takes too long shifts, questionable decisions.
Laine a little slow.
Defense too many mistakes.

Generally, not playing good team defense.

I do think a coaching change may work.

I also think that acquiring a solid veteran who can lead the team by putting pressure on the young guys to buy into the system and play good team defense would be invaluable.
I would be willing to give up plenty to get a guy in the room with the following characteristics:
25-30 years old. Has won a Cup or with alot of playoff experience.
Can play top 9 or top 4 role.

 

[Hunter368]

What does it have to do with the cap? He has a 925k cap hit.

Development is another matter. He certainly hasn't looked out of his depth but we can't see everything.

Development- If the team sees the A or Finland in his best interest long term development then they won’t keep him on the team.

Cap - It’s not about his cap now, it’s about saving his ELC deal for another year and not burning it now. NHL teams plan their cap out 1-5 years in advance so clearly they weren’t expecting him to be this good so soon. Couple this with development and I can see why they might not keep him in the NHL.