It's Re-Tooling Time

Lonny Bohonos

Registered User
Apr 4, 2010
15,645
2,060
Middle East
Coaching change needs to happen, 100% no question. But second thing is this team needs to sort out its Jekyll & Hyde identity. What type of team are we? Are we a puck possession and cycle based team built around the Sedins? Are we a fast and gritty forecheck team built around Kesler? Are we a defensively stifling, sit back and counter team built around hyper-structured systems? Problem I find is this team doesn't know what its identity is and so lurches from one style of play to another and players are brought in that don't really complement one style or another. Perhaps this will be addressed by the new coach - I certainly hope it will be - and then the coach and Gillis need to get on the same page 100%. No more Keith Ballard situations - "Hey AV here's a top for Dman for you." "No thanks MG, I don't like him". Pick a direction and then systematically work towards it. No more dysfunction ...

Darren Pang was talking about this and it seems Bob Mac also mentioned the team appears like a mish mash of players.

MG seems more intent on scoring advanced stats steals than building a team that fits together.
 

Alflives*

Guest
Darren Pang was talking about this and it seems Bob Mac also mentioned the team appears like a mish mash of players.

MG seems more intent on scoring advanced stats steals than building a team that fits together.

Thank you. There are too many important aspects to a hockey player's game that are not measured by 'advanced stats' - like playing winning playoff hockey.
 

LickTheEnvelope

Time to Retool... again...
Dec 16, 2008
37,985
5,349
Vancouver
Mostly at center, which is what people have been saying for months.

Roy was a good move, to try and get some skill, didn't work.


Big part of the problem is the Canucks can't seem to develop bottom 6 players. They have Hansen and that's about it.


Malholtra was a pretty awesome 4th line center. But you know what would have been better, a guy the Canucks drafted who was playing for half Malholtra's salary. Probably not as effective, but if you get a solid guy in there it is good enough.

Instead they have a bunch of lousy signings and waiver rejects.

Higgins and Lapierre are both fine. The Canucks desperatly needed a Torres or a Clowe though.

That's why I was so upset at the deadline when Gilman said they were all in, then failed to out big the Rangers or Sharks. Also failed to sign Doan in the summer.
Failed to land Schultz and failed to get Langionarre.

People keep saying "Oh but they were close!!!" Close doesn't matter with that much failure...
 

Lonny Bohonos

Registered User
Apr 4, 2010
15,645
2,060
Middle East
Thank you. There are too many important aspects to a hockey player's game that are not measured by 'advanced stats' - like playing winning playoff hockey.

Even the stats that advanced stats are based on are open to error/interpretation etc.

They work great for baseball hockey not so much.
 

medhatcanuck

Registered User
Jul 8, 2010
2,371
0
Inside JayZ's Belly
_____ - Kesler - _____
D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - _____ - Hansen
Wiese - Lapierre - Kassian

Hamhuis - Garrison
Tanev - Corrado
Bieksa - Edler

Schneider
Lack

That would be a real championship team.
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
_____ - Kesler - _____
D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - _____ - Hansen
Wiese - Lapierre - Kassian

Hamhuis - Garrison
Tanev - Corrado
Bieksa - Edler

Schneider
Lack

That would be a real championship team.

That's essentially the same team :facepalm:

Unless those first line wingers are players like Parise and Pat Kane or someone of that level I don't see how that's a championship team.
 

VeteranNetPresence

Disco Super Fly.
Dec 8, 2011
6,849
269
Vancouver
Darren Pang was talking about this and it seems Bob Mac also mentioned the team appears like a mish mash of players.

MG seems more intent on scoring advanced stats steals than building a team that fits together.

someone tell him that hockey isn't baseball. no team has won a world series using moneyball so tell me why it's going to happen in the NHL where there is way more variables involved
 

Just A Bit Outside

Playoffs??!
Mar 6, 2010
16,176
14,962
Higgins and Lapierre are both fine. The Canucks desperatly needed a Torres or a Clowe though.

That's why I was so upset at the deadline when Gilman said they were all in, then failed to out big the Rangers or Sharks. Also failed to sign Doan in the summer.
Failed to land Schultz and failed to get Langionarre.

People keep saying "Oh but they were close!!!" Close doesn't matter with that much failure...

I agree on the Sharks out-bidding us but San Jose accepted our bid for Clowe and he chose to go to NY.

After the performance of this team, I dont blame hime.

However, he might be golfing soon as well.

Be kinda funny since SJ is now onto the 2nd round.
 

absolute garbage

Registered User
Jan 22, 2006
4,399
1,769
That would be a real championship team.

Really? You put the player who has had the most significant drop in level of play since 2011 Cup run to the first line, above Sedins? Can't follow that logic, and how that would suddenly be a championship team.
 

BB6

Registered User
Feb 14, 2012
2,397
64
Canada
Lets keep most of our D, I think emotions are riding high and I for one would like to see what a new coach can do with our D core, I'm fine with trading the Sedins and getting in some hard nosed Canadian boys to dig deep in the playoffs, I 100% don't want Burrows to go anywhere, that guy deserves to stay.
 

Finkle is Einhorn

Registered User
Oct 13, 2003
11,748
0
Visit site
_____ - Kesler - _____
D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - _____ - Hansen
Wiese - Lapierre - Kassian

Hamhuis - Garrison
Tanev - Corrado
Bieksa - Edler

Schneider
Lack

That would be a real championship team.

Overall quality aside, that 3rd line C better be the second coming of Yanik Perreault or else the Canucks will continue to be a pretty poor faceoff team.
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
bringing in star players by throwing large wads of cash at them isn't moneyball, but i'm curious as to why you think it is

It's primarily to do with bringing in undervalued players due to exploiting your competitions undeveloped knowledge of advanced stats to bring in the pieces that lead to success. In fact, the movie moneyball even identified the Boston Red Sox as winning two World Series championships using moneyball principles.
 

Lonny Bohonos

Registered User
Apr 4, 2010
15,645
2,060
Middle East
someone tell him that hockey isn't baseball. no team has won a world series using moneyball so tell me why it's going to happen in the NHL where there is way more variables involved

Thats not the issue.

The issue is that advanced stats in hockey are less meaningful than in baseball. They are too subjective error prone in hockey. They may provide a general idea but thats about it.

Has been at the forefront of adv stats and it has not paid off in any front including drafting and it possible its hindered decisions by him trying to "score a good deal".
 

KeninsFan

Fire Benning already
Feb 6, 2012
5,489
0
The definition of advanced stats varies from team to team.

IIRC Friedman notes that NHL teams have different "advanced stats" that are a closely guarded secret. Chances are Corsi and Fenwick aren't the same advanced stats that Gillis uses. He also noted that most NHL teams are starting to use advanced stats along with pro scouts.

+y2k is right about the Red Sox. Moneyball doesn't only refer to only bargain bin players.
 

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
11,845
6,290
the management has made some questionable moves the last few years, you can't throw talented offensive players like Hodgson and Grabner out of the window for nothing and expect to grow as a team and stay competitive with washed up mediocre rental vets like Derek Roy
 

MajorCanuck

Cup Please
Dec 30, 2011
689
0
Surrey, BC
It's primarily to do with bringing in undervalued players due to exploiting your competitions undeveloped knowledge of advanced stats to bring in the pieces that lead to success. In fact, the movie moneyball even identified the Boston Red Sox as winning two World Series championships using moneyball principles.

Either way, the Bosox had money that no hockey team can utilize with the salary cap in place.
 

Shoalzie

Trust me!
May 16, 2003
16,904
180
Portland, MI
Just an outsider's view...take it or leave it.

You have the pieces to still be a quality team. What a difference on game a couple years ago makes to the fortune of a franchise. You either change the coaching staff and change only a couple select pieces or tear the majority of down entirely and leave a few core vets to help bring any young bucks along. You basically need your version of Logan Couture...a new young guy to emerge with the existing vets.

No matter what they do, I don't see how you keep Vigneault because you don't go from one game from a title a couple years ago to being swept in the first round...it only gets worse from there if you don't shake things up. He's not a bad coach...you just need to get a different voice in that room. As I say with any coaching change...if you fire a guy, is there actually a better option out there? Hard to say.

The goaltending has been a circus...you don't need me to tell you that. Just need to decide who you can win with and can you get a return for the other guy. Luongo might still be your option and trade Schneider now before he really hits the skids in another playoff run and becomes toxic. Luongo at least got you to a finals...his downfall was that he couldn't stop a beachball in Boston.

The Sedin twins...that's a tough one. Do you dare trade just one of them and screw them both up? Hard to move 'em both with the new cap situation and I think you can still win with them but maybe not as your primary guys...move them to a second line role and let Kesler be the man and rebuild your top line around him. He should've been your captain.

That new Pacific/Northwest Division is going to be nasty with having to deal with the Kings, the Ducks and the Sharks. Can't feast off a mediocre Northwest anymore...going to be harder to make the playoffs in the new alignment. Now would be the time to make some sizeable changes to adjust to the new division.
 

Angry Little Elf

My wife came back
Apr 9, 2012
8,424
7,558
Victoria B.C.
Just an outsider's view...take it or leave it.

You have the pieces to still be a quality team. What a difference on game a couple years ago makes to the fortune of a franchise. You either change the coaching staff and change only a couple select pieces or tear the majority of down entirely and leave a few core vets to help bring any young bucks along. You basically need your version of Logan Couture...a new young guy to emerge with the existing vets.

No matter what they do, I don't see how you keep Vigneault because you don't go from one game from a title a couple years ago to being swept in the first round...it only gets worse from there if you don't shake things up. He's not a bad coach...you just need to get a different voice in that room. As I say with any coaching change...if you fire a guy, is there actually a better option out there? Hard to say.

The goaltending has been a circus...you don't need me to tell you that. Just need to decide who you can win with and can you get a return for the other guy. Luongo might still be your option and trade Schneider now before he really hits the skids in another playoff run and becomes toxic. Luongo at least got you to a finals...his downfall was that he couldn't stop a beachball in Boston.

The Sedin twins...that's a tough one. Do you dare trade just one of them and screw them both up? Hard to move 'em both with the new cap situation and I think you can still win with them but maybe not as your primary guys...move them to a second line role and let Kesler be the man and rebuild your top line around him. He should've been your captain.

That new Pacific/Northwest Division is going to be nasty with having to deal with the Kings, the Ducks and the Sharks. Can't feast off a mediocre Northwest anymore...going to be harder to make the playoffs in the new alignment. Now would be the time to make some sizeable changes to adjust to the new division.
Can we take Babcock? :naughty:
 

abdew29

Registered User
Aug 4, 2011
150
0
Toronto
Leafs fan coming in peace:

What would be your asking price for:

1)Kevin Bieksa
2)Ryan Kesler

...not as a package deal, just the price for each player separately. Just want to gauge the value of the players
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
Leafs fan coming in peace:

What would be your asking price for:

1)Kevin Bieksa
2)Ryan Kesler

...not as a package deal, just the price for each player separately. Just want to gauge the value of the players

There's really nothing from the Leafs that I'd want.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->