It's Not The Water Or Culture, It's Your Forward Depth, Dummy.

MaxR11

Registered User
Mar 28, 2017
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coyotes are a good example of what playing the right way and for each other and setting a proper culture (even if it may only be temporary) can do for a team. they are playing well above their talent pool and are legitimately fighting for a playoff spot with a "garbage" roster.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
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coyotes are a good example of what playing the right way and for each other and setting a proper culture (even if it may only be temporary) can do for a team. they are playing well above their talent pool and are legitimately fighting for a playoff spot with a "garbage" roster.
And they just got out talented.

Do you think the Coyotes take more than a game against the Sharks/Flames/Jets/Predators?
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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coyotes are a good example of what playing the right way and for each other and setting a proper culture (even if it may only be temporary) can do for a team. they are playing well above their talent pool and are legitimately fighting for a playoff spot with a "garbage" roster.

Coyotes have also missed the playoffs for 7 straight years and there's no gauruntee they make it this year.

I want at minimum a Leafs-caliber team, f*** this nonsense of being the Coyotes when you have McDavid and Draisaitl. That doesn't work consistently, every year the NHL will have 1 or 2 flukey teams that get hot and then go on a bit of a tear and then collapse back to earth the next season.

The teams that remain up there year in, year out have a good roster on paper, flat out.

The Oilers will never be some grinder team. Either the next GM builds a Caps-Pens-Leafs-Jets caliber roster here or bust. The dynamics when you have a player like McDavid are simply different. I want a team that can be a 95+ point team every year and really 100+ points every year is the norm, not to be the Islanders or Coyotes.
 
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MaxR11

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Mar 28, 2017
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Coyotes have also missed the playoffs for 7 straight years and there's no gauruntee they make it this year.

I want at minimum a Leafs-caliber team, **** this nonsense of being the Coyotes when you have McDavid and Draisaitl. That doesn't work consistently, every year the NHL will have 1 or 2 flukey teams that get hot and then go on a bit of a tear and then collapse back to earth the next season.

The teams that remain up there year in, year out have a good roster on paper, flat out.

The Oilers will never be some grinder team. Either the next GM builds a Caps-Pens-Leafs-Jets caliber roster here or bust. The dynamics when you have a player like McDavid are simply different. I want a team that can be a 95+ point team every year and really 100+ points every year is the norm, not to be the Islanders or Coyotes.

lol, you continually miss the point because of your blind hate for the word culture. no one's saying we should strive to be the coyotes... just saying getting the team together with a good culture (even if it's temporary right now), playing for one another, playing the right way consistently can get the most out of whatever talent your team may have.
I think it the oil had bought in for more than they have this season they'd be ahead of the coyotes right now. but the culture sagged and buy in was not there for way too much of the season. Point is culture/buy in matters... A LOT.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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lol, you continually miss the point because of your blind hate for the word culture. no one's saying we should strive to be the coyotes... just saying getting the team together with a good culture (even if it's temporary right now), playing for one another, playing the right way consistently can get the most out of whatever talent your team may have.
I think it the oil had bought in for more than they have this season they'd be ahead of the coyotes right now. but the culture sagged and buy in was not there for way too much of the season. Point is culture/buy in matters... A LOT.

The culture of the current group is not bad. They like each other from the looks of things and even have been playing reasonably well when not gutted by injury. They're just not that good and their "sun shines on our ass just perfectly" season of good luck/good bounces was used up in 16-17.

The problem is compared to teams like Pittsburgh, Winnipeg, Toronto, Tampa, etc. they don't match up talent wise.

Buy in doesn't matter long term when you don't have a well built roster. Again you've been asked to name a pro sports franchise that does it every year, year in, year out without a talented roster and you can't name one.

Next GM either builds a team like Tampa or Toronto or Pittsburgh or forget it.
 

GMofOilers

Registered User
Oct 15, 2007
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Mountains
coyotes are a good example of what playing the right way and for each other and setting a proper culture (even if it may only be temporary) can do for a team. they are playing well above their talent pool and are legitimately fighting for a playoff spot with a "garbage" roster.

Need good goaltending to win.

Its always been, and will always be.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
71,822
30,733
Calgary
lol, you continually miss the point because of your blind hate for the word culture. no one's saying we should strive to be the coyotes... just saying getting the team together with a good culture (even if it's temporary right now), playing for one another, playing the right way consistently can get the most out of whatever talent your team may have.
I think it the oil had bought in for more than they have this season they'd be ahead of the coyotes right now. but the culture sagged and buy in was not there for way too much of the season. Point is culture/buy in matters... A LOT.
The Coyotes are "succeeding" because the West is a tirefire.
 

McShogun99

Registered User
Aug 30, 2009
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Edmonton
It's truly amazing that we can have Mcdavid and Draisaitl and still miss the playoffs. It takes a special type of team building to mess this up.
 
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MaxR11

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Mar 28, 2017
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The culture of the current group is not bad. They like each other from the looks of things and even have been playing reasonably well when not gutted by injury. They're just not that good and their "sun shines on our ass just perfectly" season of good luck/good bounces was used up in 16-17.

The problem is compared to teams like Pittsburgh, Winnipeg, Toronto, Tampa, etc. they don't match up talent wise.

Buy in doesn't matter long term when you don't have a well built roster. Again you've been asked to name a pro sports franchise that does it every year, year in, year out without a talented roster and you can't name one.

Next GM either builds a team like Tampa or Toronto or Pittsburgh or forget it.

lol, the bolded just shows how clueless you are when talking about culture. it's not simply about getting along with each other and "liking" each other. it's about accountability on and off ice, leadership, doing the right things on and off the ice. good habits. not sagging. mental fortitude. being cohesive on the ice and having 100% buy in to the system that everyone can abide by and rely upon. it's about doing all the unnoticed little things that add up to winning. a lot more other intangibles.

obvious we need more talent if we actually want to win the cup but i'm just saying with the proper culture buy in from season start til now we should be ahead of the coyotes now with our destiny of postseason in our own hands.. culture matters.

vegas is another example. even beofre stone was here and when stasny was out this team was good. they have a good culture. you can just see it in the way they play properly. everyone said they had a fluke season... their culture is proving it's not. they got a bunch of noname dmen whom they've developed under this culture to look very solid.

culture is also attention to details.... that level of perfection. it's clear the oilers players for much of the season have a much lower level of this compared to teams with better culture. simple things like stopping on pucks and not flying by etc etc. it all adds up.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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Character of the group is generally good actually I think. McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, Nurse, Larsson, etc. are good people who work hard. Even Lucic works hard, we have a lot of guys who spend a lot of time in the gym.

The issues I'll be specific about ("talent" yes, but specifically these two issues):

1.) They are slower as a whole than 90% of the league. No amount of character is going to make up for being a stride or two slower. McDavid is fast but that's about it. Draisaitl is fast at full speed but slow to accelerate. Rest of the team is just slow as a whole. There is not enough speed up and down the lineup.

2.) While there are some "skilled" players, there's no "shooters" on this team. Not many guys who shoot the puck well.

They are massively deficient in those two areas, so you may say "well why is team XYZ that doesn't have McDavid or Draisaitl doing better" ... because the GM's vision for the team badly skipped over team speed and you have a roster that half the time tries to pass the puck into the net.

You can have a $5 million dollar house, but if the builder did not pay enough attention to the plumbing and electrical wiring and the house has big issues later on, the $5 million dollar sticker doesn't mean a whole lot as its likely not going to be pleasant in the home.
 

frag2

Registered User
Mar 8, 2006
19,184
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lol, the bolded just shows how clueless you are when talking about culture. it's not simply about getting along with each other and "liking" each other. it's about accountability on and off ice, leadership, doing the right things on and off the ice. good habits. not sagging. mental fortitude. being cohesive on the ice and having 100% buy in to the system that everyone can abide by and rely upon. it's about doing all the unnoticed little things that add up to winning. a lot more other intangibles.

obvious we need more talent if we actually want to win the cup but i'm just saying with the proper culture buy in from season start til now we should be ahead of the coyotes now with our destiny of postseason in our own hands.. culture matters.

vegas is another example. even beofre stone was here and when stasny was out this team was good. they have a good culture. you can just see it in the way they play properly. everyone said they had a fluke season... their culture is proving it's not. they got a bunch of noname dmen whom they've developed under this culture to look very solid.

culture is also attention to details.... that level of perfection. it's clear the oilers players for much of the season have a much lower level of this compared to teams with better culture. simple things like stopping on pucks and not flying by etc etc. it all adds up.

The team needs to buy into the system that allows Lucic to be on the top line. Yep, that'll show the opposition.
 

MaxR11

Registered User
Mar 28, 2017
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The team needs to buy into the system that allows Lucic to be on the top line. Yep, that'll show the opposition.

your comment is meant to make a point? noone said looch was any good or is even helping the team any. there are definite roster issues but i'm saying if the culture was right and buy in was better throughout the entire season they'd be ahead of the coyotes and ACTUALLY legitimately challenging for a playoff spot. thus the point is buy in and culture matters a lot.
 

frag2

Registered User
Mar 8, 2006
19,184
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your comment is meant to make a point? noone said looch was any good or is even helping the team any. there are definite roster issues but i'm saying if the culture was right and buy in was better throughout the entire season they'd be ahead of the coyotes and ACTUALLY legitimately challenging for a playoff spot. thus the point is buy in and culture matters a lot.

If they didn't unnecessarily play Talbot those games 'just to get him in the groove', they'd likely be in a better predicament regardless of this culture crap.

You keep preaching abstract concepts but really, the team lacks talent through and through. You can't teach them a speed game and you can't teach them a grinders game.

What good is buying into a system when you neither have the talent nor the correct system [ie. line matching, taking advantage of last change].
 
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MaxR11

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If they didn't unnecessarily play Talbot those games 'just to get him in the groove', they'd likely be in a better predicament regardless of this culture crap.

You keep preaching abstract concepts but really, the team lacks talent through and through. You can't teach them a speed game and you can't teach them a grinders game.

What good is buying into a system when you neither have the talent nor the correct system [ie. line matching, taking advantage of last change].

culture is a very real concept. again, you continue to miss the point. not saying oil would be world beaters with this iffy to poor lineup. just saying it would be noticeably better if the culture/buy in was better. sagging and not buying in because the roster isn't good enough would show lack of character and commitment. arizona has a crummier lineup and has done more with it. not just the results but just watching them play you can see the team unity and buy in. it's a big difference compared to when the oil sag for large chunks of this season.

yes, talent depth is questionable and weak but the culture is weaker for too much of the season.

you can simply see if from the outstanding effort, decent hockey smarts and buy in to system and dilgence in backchecking and responsible play when the oil go on their 8-2 stretches this year. the other times when they suck, all that is at a level so far lower it's not even close. if you can get a more consistent effort and buy in this team could have 5 plus wins more than it does now. again, not saying that's good enough and yes, talent needs upgrade BUT it makes the point that buy in and culture matters way more than you think.
 

BudBundy

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May 16, 2005
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culture is a very real concept. again, you continue to miss the point. not saying oil would be world beaters with this iffy to poor lineup. just saying it would be noticeably better if the culture/buy in was better. sagging and not buying in because the roster isn't good enough would show lack of character and commitment. arizona has a crummier lineup and has done more with it. not just the results but just watching them play you can see the team unity and buy in. it's a big difference compared to when the oil sag for large chunks of this season.

yes, talent depth is questionable and weak but the culture is weaker for too much of the season.

you can simply see if from the outstanding effort, decent hockey smarts and buy in to system and dilgence in backchecking and responsible play when the oil go on their 8-2 stretches this year. the other times when they suck, all that is at a level so far lower it's not even close. if you can get a more consistent effort and buy in this team could have 5 plus wins more than it does now. again, not saying that's good enough and yes, talent needs upgrade BUT it makes the point that buy in and culture matters way more than you think.
How is the weather where you are today, Mr. Howson. So who are you scouting these days? Still trying to lure Nikitin back from the KHL? He oozes character and character matters amirite?
 
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GOilers88

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Dec 24, 2016
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Coyotes have also missed the playoffs for 7 straight years and there's no gauruntee they make it this year.

I want at minimum a Leafs-caliber team, **** this nonsense of being the Coyotes when you have McDavid and Draisaitl. That doesn't work consistently, every year the NHL will have 1 or 2 flukey teams that get hot and then go on a bit of a tear and then collapse back to earth the next season.

The teams that remain up there year in, year out have a good roster on paper, flat out.

The Oilers will never be some grinder team. Either the next GM builds a Caps-Pens-Leafs-Jets caliber roster here or bust. The dynamics when you have a player like McDavid are simply different. I want a team that can be a 95+ point team every year and really 100+ points every year is the norm, not to be the Islanders or Coyotes.
The Leafs don't deserve to be lumped in with those teams. Edmonton has more playoff success than Toronto over the last 15 years. The Leafs own HC doesn't think they have what it takes ffs. Replace them with Boston or something.
 

Gret99zky

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May 5, 2007
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Soundwave

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Bob Nicholson said this at the STH event today.


Now we're going to have a summer full of "we've realized you need WINGERS! We've seen the light!" from the Oilers brass.

Who knew trading away your best wingers and betting the farm on Lucic was a stupid idea.
 
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McDrai

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Mar 29, 2009
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Now we're going to have a summer full of "we've realized you need WINGERS! We've seen the light!" from the Oilers brass.

Who knew trading away your best wingers and betting the farm on Lucic was a stupid idea.

In before we trade Klefbom, Nurse et al for some average wingers
 

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