Prospect Info: It's about to get real up in here: prospect rankings from 2007-08

[VM1138]

You can blame Fraser, Holland, and Babcock.

Our management is full of *******. They haven't and never will give Kindl a consistent opportunity because they're too afraid he will fail. And if Kindl fails, Holland looks like an idiot for drafting him in the first round.

We're never going to know what we have in Kindl because our management is playing not to lose rather than to win.

What are you talking about? Kindl has played consistently, and has even had PP time. It's Kindl's own fault he's disappointed.

 

[Vladdy84]

What are you talking about? Kronwall has played consistently, and has even had PP time. It's Kronwall's own fault he's disappointed.

Sounds more apropos.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Well according to a member of the maintenance staff, the coaching staff is stupid for thinking Cleary cannot be passed because there's not an able veteran to pass him.

 

[RedMenace]

Well according to a member of the maintenance staff, the coaching staff is stupid for thinking Cleary cannot be passed because there's not an able veteran to pass him.

Who thinks the coaching staff is stupid?

A) The maintenance staff
2) The fans
#) Upper management
) The players
Over 9000) All of the above

You may also select more than one option.

If you compare the two Kindl gets a much larger chunk of mins on the power play and has nothing to show for that ice time. Quincey is one of our top PK'ers. Quincey provides more "value" by being a major contributor to a specialty teams unit. So that's just not a comparison that does Kindl any favors...and I'm a guy who has loathed the Quincey trade and contract extension from the moment the trade was announced.

Heh, I meant the way they play the game, not their literal statistics.

Your point is valid because Kindl doesn't play; however, I tend to think that if the roles were reveresed, Kindl would be golden and we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I didn't make that up, that came from a member of the training staff.

EDIT: Kindl is in the exact opposite position as Cleary. Cleary works really hard and does what he's told (excepting the fact that he hates Babcock and will say so on most given opportunities), so while the team sees his skills and effectiveness diminishing to almost nothing, he gets some slack (a LOT of slack, although part of that is due to a lack of veterans being healthy. If Cleary could be passed on the depth chart by veterans who have paid their dues to the organization, they'd pass him).

At the end of the day, if a hard working guy can't outplay the "lazy guy," on a consistent basis, I go with the lazy guy, as bad as that sounds.

The NHL is a results business -- not a gold star for trying hard business. If some talented kid can sleepwalk and be better than an untalented kid, then the sleepwalker plays.

 

[RedMenace]

The internal knock on Kindl is that he is lazy. He doesn't put as much effort into training and learning the game as the team thinks he should. The Wings believe in his skill level, they don't believe in his work ethic. That is why he is on a short leash.

At the end of the day, if a hard working guy can't outplay the "lazy guy," on a consistent basis, I go with the lazy guy, as bad as that sounds.

The NHL is a results business -- not a gold star for trying hard business. If some talented kid can sleepwalk and be better than an untalented kid, then the sleepwalker plays.

Yep. You can teach "hard work," but you can't teach "skill;" Kindl has that over Quincey in spades.

 

[sepster]

I'm not arguing whether Quincey should be playing over Kindl or the other way around. I'm simply answering the question people were asking as to why Kindl is on such a short leash.

 

[FlashyG]

Yep. You can teach "hard work," but you can't teach "skill;" Kindl has that over Quincey in spades.

Kindl should be in the line-up but not at the expense of Quincey. We should be looking to replace players that aren't performing, not the ones that are

 

[Run the Jewels]

To be fair that's all on the 2nd unit which we all know is god awful.

I dunno man, if you have skill shouldn't you be able to demonstrate that skill? The flip side is he's going up against every team's weakest PK unit and getting pwned. Look at Hudler, he didn't get consistent top 6 IT due to his defensive limitations but he was always in the top 9, was always getting solid PP mins, and was one of our top 3 guys in the shootout. Why? Because he was a skilled offensive talent.

Hudler was a skilled guy who clearly had skill. He generated offense. Sure, his ice time was limited to cover up for his defensive inadequacies but he was a fixture in the lineup, no one other than eva would argue otherwise. Kindl is a guy who has skill but you can't actually see it when he's on the ice. Not in Grand Rapids and certainly not in Detroit.

No one hates him, the only reason he's been kept around is to hope at some point he becomes a legit NHL d-man. Why on earth would they keep him around but never play him if they thought he could actually help win hockey games?

 

[Laser Rayzor]

I dunno man, if you have skill shouldn't you be able to demonstrate that skill? The flip side is he's going up against every team's weakest PK unit and getting pwned.

You could make the very same argument for Filp, Smith, White, and Quincey all of whom have struggled with our garbage 2nd PP unit.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

I dunno man, if you have skill shouldn't you be able to demonstrate that skill? The flip side is he's going up against every team's weakest PK unit and getting pwned. Look at Hudler, he didn't get consistent top 6 IT due to his defensive limitations but he was always in the top 9, was always getting solid PP mins, and was one of our top 3 guys in the shootout. Why? Because he was a skilled offensive talent.

Hudler was a skilled guy who clearly had skill. He generated offense. Sure, his ice time was limited to cover up for his defensive inadequacies but he was a fixture in the lineup, no one other than eva would argue otherwise. Kindl is a guy who has skill but you can't actually see it when he's on the ice. Not in Grand Rapids and certainly not in Detroit.

No one hates him, the only reason he's been kept around is to hope at some point he becomes a legit NHL d-man. Why on earth would they keep him around but never play him if they thought he could actually help win hockey games?

Kindl doesn't get top-four IT or play on the top PP unit yet all stats point to him outproducing the other defensemen, so I don't see your point. Hudler produced enough offensively to get himself out of the "doghouse" and up the lineup. Kindl has produced offensively while being solid defensively and physical, so how is he not earning an increased role like Hudler? I've seen quite a good amount of skill from Kindl this year, and it shows on the stat-sheet as well.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Kindl doesn't get top-four IT or play on the top PP unit yet all stats point to him outproducing the other defensemen, so I don't see your point. Hudler produced enough offensively to get himself out of the "doghouse" and up the lineup. Kindl has produced offensively while being solid defensively and physical, so how is he not earning an increased role like Hudler? I've seen quite a good amount of skill from Kindl this year, and it shows on the stat-sheet as well.

As I pointed out Kindl has done nothing with the 2.60 mins per 60 mins of power play time he's receiving. More than Ian White! If you remove Carlo Colaicovo who's played all of 2 games Kindl is receiving more ice time 5v4 than any d-man not named Niklas Kronwall. What's he doing with that ice time? Nothing. If he's really that skilled shouldn't he be producing against every opponents second PK unit? With a man advantage? I mean seriously people. WTF?

Do you know which d-man produces the most points per 60 mins at even strength? No, it's not Niklas Kronwall. It's Jonathan Ericsson. Kindl is playing the absolute worst competition at even strength and generates a whopping 0.74 more points at even stregnth per 60 mins than Brian Lashoff. Less than 1 point. Lashoff of course is playing the same opposition that Brad Stuart was playing in the past for the Detroit Red Wings. Suppose Lashoff was playing the butter soft opposition Kindl was facing at even strength, would he put up numbers closer to Kindl's? Seeing how neither Ericsson or Lashoff are offensive d-men what does this say about Kindl's production 5v5? Is it really all that impressive?

 

[Laser Rayzor]

As I pointed out Kindl has done nothing with the 2.60 mins per 60 mins of power play time he's receiving. More than Ian White! If you remove Carlo Colaicovo who's played all of 2 games Kindl is receiving more ice time 5v4 than any d-man not named Niklas Kronwall. What's he doing with that ice time? Nothing. If he's really that skilled shouldn't he be producing against every opponents second PK unit? With a man advantage? I mean seriously people. WTF?

Do you know which d-man produces the most points per 60 mins at even strength? No, it's not Niklas Kronwall. It's Jonathan Ericsson. Kindl is playing the absolute worst competition at even strength and generates a whopping 0.74 more points at even stregnth per 60 mins than Brian Lashoff. Less than 1 point. Lashoff of course is playing the same opposition that Brad Stuart was playing in the past for the Detroit Red Wings. Suppose Lashoff was playing the butter soft opposition Kindl was facing at even strength, would he put up numbers closer to Kindl's? Seeing how neither Ericsson or Lashoff are offensive d-men what does this say about Kindl's production 5v5? Is it really all that impressive?

1) You're totally right, Kindl has done nothing with his PP time, same with Filp, Smith, White, and Bert, none of them have any PP points despite playing near the same or more PP time (total or /game) than Kindl. They all must be terrible and unskilled

The 2nd PP unit is garbage, Kindl's (and Filp/Smith/White/Bert...) P/PPTOI is extremely skewed because they all play on our god awful 2nd PP unit. How many times do I have to say it.

2) About Lashoff, you could flip that around and say that while Kindl is playing the softer competition he's also playing with lesser forwards. Whereas Lashoff plays mostly with 2 of the best playmaking centers the league has to offer, not even mentioning that the 2 aforementioned superstars are also defensive juggernauts.

 

[Bench]

3 penalties in one period! It got real up in here!

I kid, but seriously that's not going to help his ice time.

 

[Frk It]

The progress he was making this year is gone. He's reverted back to playing scared. He's not going to see the ice for awhile. It is what it is at this point.

 

[Brick Top]

3 penalties in one period! It got real up in here!

I kid, but seriously that's not going to help his ice time.

Yup... Kindl probably needs to score a hat trick tonight AND beat the hell out of Weber (including a turnbuckle face smash into the glass, followed by a People's Elbow) to avoid be scratched for the next 5-7 games.

 

[Motown Beatdown]

Kindl reminds me of how Jesse Wallin was treated. Yanked up and down, never given the time to build confidence, always looking over their shoulder afraid to make a mistake.

Ericcson has become a better hockey player because he doesn't have to worry about being benched any longer. Last year anytime Kindl made an mistake it was Commodore coming in for him, this year it's Huskins. these guys aren't dumb if they think they are being bench in favor of a journey man picked up off the street it destroys their confidence.

The only way Kindl is going to become a decent/good NHL player is to be allowed to make mistakes, be allowed to know hey if i F up it's not the end of the world. He has the talent IMO, he can skate with the puck, has a low hard shot. Given time and confidence he will use his size more and be more stable in his own end.