It's 2018, so why are Canadian shows still being set in "Generica"?
- Thread starter End on a Hinote
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NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Whether or not you liked the film adaptation of Scott Pilgrim vs. the World, it certainly didn't beat you over the head that it took place in Toronto but didn't hide it either.
End on a Hinote
Registered Abuser
And while the movie didnt perform too well at the box office, I guarantee that it wasn't because people heard "Toronto" in several scenes.
ProstheticConscience
Check dein Limit
The f***? Where's all this "proud Canadian" shit coming from? Nice strawman.
The OP asked specifically why Canadian shows are still set in Gererica, and the answer is: it's always been that way because too many Americans won't watch shows specifically set in Canada. US audiences are notoriously xenophobic and always have been. That's...just kinda why the whole trope came about in the first place.
glovesave_35
Name
A good number of British shows are quite popular among Americans. I don't think it's quite as simple as saying American audiences are, and always have been, xenophobic.
I think that it's reasonable to characterize Canadians who want more shows set in Canada as "proud Canadians." Regardless, you used that characterization as an excuse to dodge the question. Why are Americans "xenophobic" for preferring shows set in their own country, but Canadians aren't for wanting the same thing?
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RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
The primary reason shows film in Canada is for tax incentives and lower production costs, so we're basically 'taking their jobs'. There are also many recognizable institutions in the like the US military or the FBI that may be needed for a show and for the US/broader audience there isn't a recognizable equivalent in Canada.
We get the last laugh though as the US is slowly getting acclimatized to the Canadian dialect and scenery, a small opening move in our world domination plot.
Shareefruck
Registered User
I don't really understand this line of questioning. Nobody said anything about actually "preferring" shows set in their country, did they?
The difference between feeling that there's a shortage of shows proudly set in Canada and the feeling of not wanting to watch shows set anywhere else besides the US (whether that's true or not is another story) is pretty significant, and if the premise is true, to encourage one but scoff at the other for being xenophobic is totally valid, consistent, and reasonable, IMO.
While they both stem from the same root, it's not much different from the difference between making an effort to avoid being too underconfident/down on yourself and being outright arrogant and boastful. It's not a contradiction at all to encourage the former but discourage the latter, simply because they both involve a desire to be more confident. Everyone's just aiming for balance and moderation.
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The Nuge
Some say…
Huh? Do you mean in the US there’s that perception? Canadians are proud of our products
I guess, but most of Canada has a pretty neutral accent, and it’s not like the stars are all going to be locals, using their own accent or something.
Did I blow up the Georgia viaduct again? Awwwww......
This was one of my first thoughts. A Canadian superhero, starring a Canadian, loaded with Canadian references, and it’s somehow American.
Because the topic isn’t about making American movies/shows set in Canada. It’s about making Canadian movies/shows set in Canada, and American movies/shows set in America.
And that’s how it should be done. You certainly don’t have to shove it down a viewers throat
That's the natural corollary to preferring that shows not be set in other countries.
It's not reasonable to push a premise that's obviously an exaggeration for the sake of being incendiary. That shouldn't be allowed that to go unchallenged because, hypothetically, the accompanying judgment would be justified if the claim were true. Rather than take such claims literally, it's better for the conversation and the possibility for understanding to strip away the exaggeration and incendiary language and argue against the more reasonable argument that's likely hiding underneath. That's why I re-interpreted his argument as Americans "preferring" shows set in their own country, an argument that most likely has a kernel of truth in it and that both sides can more easily accept as a starting point for discussion. Incendiary exaggeration, like he used, is not a proper starting point for any productive discussion.
If that were true, I wouldn't have had reason to respond in the first place and wouldn't be having to defend my attempt to add that very thing to the discussion.
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Jussi
Registered User
I know that and I was speaking in that context. I'll put it another way that's more clear: if it's OK for Canadians to be interested in Canadian movies/shows that are set in Canada, why is it not OK for Americans to not be interested in Canadian movies/shows that are set in Canada? Aren't both of those reasonable interests stemming from the same natural, human desire for familiarity?
It can be fun to generalize and pretend that groups of people (like Canadians and Americans or Democrats and Republicans) are so different, but they're usually much more similar than we tend to want to admit. In fact, looking for differences, rather than similarities, in other groups of people in order to distance ourselves from them is a form of xenophobia, itself.
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The Nuge
Some say…
Except that means you’re assuming Canadians aren’t interested in movies/shows set anywhere but Canada, and that isn’t true. If anything, that just proves the point being brought up about it being ridiculous that shows have to have a neutral enough setting that Americans can tell themselves it’s in America
I'm not assuming that. Being interested in content set in your own country doesn't mean that you're not also interested in content set elsewhere. You seem to agree that Canadians are open to both, but then suggest that Americans won't watch something if it's not set in America. It's actually you and your film and TV industry that are doing all of the assuming.
Americans may not watch as many movies and shows not set in their country as Canada, but that's because America can produce enough homegrown content that outside content isn't necessary. There's no need for American networks to pick up foreign shows just to fill air time and attract viewers like Canadian networks may need to. Even still, Americans watch enough movies and shows that are not set in America to contradict the assertion that they're not interested in them. They love British shows, for example, even though the Brits don't cater to American audiences at all. If Canada were to concentrate on producing shows of the caliber and uniqueness that Britain does, rather than trying so hard to appeal to their southern neighbor, America might show as much interest in them as they do in British shows.
If the Canadian film and TV industry thinks that they need to set content in "Generica" to appeal to Americans, that's on them. If they're afraid that they won't be popular enough, otherwise, or they just crave having an international hit show, that's their perception and their decision. Any judgment or blame should be directed at them for that decision, not at Americans who have no input into it.
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End on a Hinote
Registered Abuser
That's exactly why I started this thread. It really is our own fault that our TV and film industry thinks that having a Canadian setting, regardless of how subtle, will hurt a show or films popularity. I really dont understand why simply mentioning "This is (Canada/Toronto/Vancouver, etc.)" Once or twice in a show or movie will make us think that it will negatively impact the quality or popularity of the show.
Although Orphan Black did not necessarily deny its Canadian setting, it certainly tried to not make it too obvious. Like, am I supposed to think Tatiana Maslany would never had been nominated for an Emmy if they were more open about its Canadian setting?
For the record, CBC's "Anne" was nominated for a Teen Choice Award for Breakout series despite its blatant Canadian setting. So again, no need for anymore Generica settings in 2018.
C'mon Canadian entertainment industry, the only ones who seem to hate the thought of a Canadian setting is yourself.
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glovesave_35
Name
I think it is worth adding one thing. I keep seeing it thrown around here that American audiences must have some sort of neutrality or de facto American setting. We don't actually know if that is true. We know that the production and broadcasting companies think that is true (or at least was true).
I think American audiences are fine with TV shows taking place outside America. In fact, some people prefer that as a change of pace or a look inside another culture. Off the top of my head, Peaky Blinders has a ton of fans in America. I think it comes down to quality for the more "sophisticated" consumer. And when it comes to your CBS shows like NCIS that get massive ratings with the gray-hairs but are generally considered a lower aiming show, those types of shows have no reason not to be set in America. That crowd more than any other probably does just want a bit of familiarity; the shows aren't breaking new ground or trying to be much other than simple entertainment.
And damnit, maybe the accent does have something to do with it.
I think American audiences are fine with TV shows taking place outside America. In fact, some people prefer that as a change of pace or a look inside another culture. Off the top of my head, Peaky Blinders has a ton of fans in America. I think it comes down to quality for the more "sophisticated" consumer. And when it comes to your CBS shows like NCIS that get massive ratings with the gray-hairs but are generally considered a lower aiming show, those types of shows have no reason not to be set in America. That crowd more than any other probably does just want a bit of familiarity; the shows aren't breaking new ground or trying to be much other than simple entertainment.
And damnit, maybe the accent does have something to do with it.
Do Make Say Think
& Yet & Yet
- Jun 26, 2007
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- 9,908
I think you underestimate the pettiness of people.
Trying to make inroads in the US with a show that is set in Canada is asking for failure.
It isn't as a bad as it once was but it's still a thing.
glovesave_35
Name
It helps if the production quality isn't noticeably lower than most US products.
Shareefruck
Registered User
But nobody really said anything about that either. The OP's issue doesn't seem to stem from being upset that Canadian shows are set in other countries, but that Canadian shows are artificially set in this generica that can't make up its mind and doesn't make sense, with the assumption that it's because they're afraid to be Canadian. That doesn't have anything to do with preferring Canadian shows over others.
Hell, even wanting more Canadian shows in general due to a shortage of them (which seems more like an off-shoot than the point of the thread) cannot be interpreted as preferring Canadian shows over others.
On top of that, from what I can see, ProstheticConscience never echoed either of these sentiments, the OP did, so I don't know why you're suggesting that his point was hypocritical.
I didn't see anything wrong with you characterizing the argument as Americans "preferring" shows set in their own country (I agree that that's a fair), just that characterizing it as "Canadians preferring shows set in their own country" seemed like an inaccurate mis-characterization of what the thread is about.
I agree that exaggeration for the sake of being incendiary shouldn't go unchallenged, but it should be challenged on fair grounds that involve its exaggeration rather than through mis-characterization of the argument. I do not see how claims of xenophobia on one end (even if we want to call that an obvious exaggeration) are contradictory to claims of lack of identity on the other end, or how that's a sign of hypocrisy.
Again, just because they stem from a thrust in the same direction, doesn't mean the desired excess of one can't be considered distasteful while the desired baseline presence of the other is considered encourage-able. Just like how self confidence is desired and arrogance is not.
From my perspective, the fault in this exchange is that you're calling the logic behind the argument invalid, when really, the logic itself is valid, the argument just may or may not be sound depending on whether or not one of the premises is true. Seems to me like it would make more sense for you to contend the argument by contending the truth of the premise rather than this contradiction/hypocrisy angle, which I don't think is warranted, personally.
I'm taking the argument literally as if premises are assumed true because that's what you need to do by definition if what you're concerned with is whether or not the argument is invalid on account of being hypocritical. Factoring the potential falseness of the premise into this consideration would be an example of applying logic incorrectly.
I don't get what you're saying here. If it were true then you wouldn't have argued against it?
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Stylizer1
SENSimillanaire
Americans like to believe they are the best so any show that they get is automatically American made. When Mike Holmes shows started airing in the states I had to prove to my family he was Canadian and it was a Canadian show. They rarely give locations of episodes and don`t show anything that would out it being shot in Canada. I`m pretty sure it`s like that with the Holmes shows shot in the US and aired in Canada. Mr. D is also like this.
That's what I was getting at in my last post. There are other factors before you even get to what Americans want. One is that the Canadian film and TV industry seems to think that they need to make shows generic to appeal to Americans. Another is that the American film and TV industry might think that of its own viewers and show no interest in non-generic Canadian content. America media is very often wrong about its viewers, though, as proven by how many hit films and shows were initially rejected by studios and networks. For all that we know, Americans might actually be more receptive to Canada-set content than anyone imagines, but because Canada doesn't produce much of it and the American industry doesn't expose them to it, it's impossible to know for sure.
Americans may assume that shows are American made, but the conclusion that it's because they believe that they're the best is rather baseless. It's more likely that they assume that shows are American made because ones that might be confused for American probably account for only a couple percent of the total number of shows available to them. Outside of HGTV, American networks show very few Canadian shows, and even those that are Canadian don't tend to advertise it (like Holmes' shows), so it's not unreasonable for Americans to think that all shows on their networks are American.
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That's why I never said that. I only ever said that Canadians "want" more shows set in their country and only ever used the term "prefer" with Americans. I was very careful to be consistent with that. If you agree that Canadians "want" more shows set in their country, we're much more in agreement than you realize.
You said a lot more and I don't want to seem like I'm ignoring it, but it pretty much all seems to stem from a misunderstanding that I mischaracterized the thread topic, which I don't think that I did, so please excuse if I don't respond to the rest.
You said that "everyone's just aiming for balance and moderation" and I was simply playing off of that to make a point that the other poster didn't seem to be doing that when he was exaggerating, which is why I responded to him.
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