Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by jonlin, May 4, 2021.
Damn thank you for this video, Reaves really made him his bitch there
Reeves lives rent free in his head, it's so fun to see and Mcquaid really dropped him.
That's because it was a different game back then. The game was tougher and players used to hit each other. Things could spill over much, much easier.
It's not the collision sport it once used to be.
In all fairness Panarin literally jumped on Wilson’s back and bear hugged him, what exactly did Artemi think was going to happen? Wilson has a track record of being dirty but Panarin messed with the bull and he got the horns. Live and learn.
Boy is a beast, lots of clean big hits
You do not need goons, what Wilson did was not goonery or fighting it was dirty. Like John Scott said the league just told the teams - its open season in the scrums.
Do not even bother going after Wilson, just do what he does. It seems to be sanctioned. Ovie goes in the crease with his new lingering injury, go after it. Worst case scenario is 5 grand. Oshie, Backstrom better keep your head up. Parros set the example, do what you want but pay us after.
If you need an enforcer just call them up from the minors for when they are needed. Go out do the dirty deed and advantage to your team.
By all means, dress your goons against the Caps.
And Kuz will skate circles around them while Ovie/Wilson/Chara will still rudely check your players.
And chances are Tom Wilson will kick the crap out of your goon anyway. Just ask the Pens what happened when their GM picked that fight.
There is a reason why nobody is doing that anymore.
I am all for the hockey pacifists to GTFO with their mindset that hitting and such needs to be removed but this crap Wilson pulled needs to be answered in some fashion. Will there be a Code red 2.0? I guess we will wait and see. People are fed up with his shit.
I miss Byfuglien so much.
So so so so so so so so so so so so so so so much.
People like to think the enforcers were all honorable but half the time they were the ones injuring good players.
or just don't try to kill a player, no ? what a brain dead take.
"hey boys, don't touch Wilson cause he will escalated it to 100 real quick and probably cheap shot you so your hurt for the rest of the season"
What a take my dude. society should listen to your high code of moral.
The problem with this is that dirty "enforcers" and clean "enforcers" can't really can't exist without one another.
When people speak of enforcers, we all know that they're referencing unskilled players who log ~10 mins per game. Somebody like Wilson can't seriously be labeled an enforcer when he racks up a lot more goals than fights. He's a power forward who plays dirty. Dirty enforcers, like Trevor Gillies or Shane O'Brien, don't find regular work anymore because the cleaner, more skilled game renders them far more of a liability than an asset. And with the disappearance of dirty goons, the need for clean goons has correspondingly plummeted.
But then that still leaves you with the oddball loose canon like Tom Wilson.
Enforcers are a dying breed. Only way they come back is get rid of instigator rule. Build a 4th line that can forecheck and hit all day long. Game gets outta hand give them lots of minutes.
Enforcer won't always play. You can't always saddle your star with enforcer. The odd time enforcer isn't out there, stars will be targeted. If enforcer leaves bench to rescue, he gets suspended.
This can all be corrected if the officials and department of player safety do their jobs correctly. Discipline is a joke in the NHL. 1 or 2 game suspensions do nothing. Even a 10 game suspension. Some players will only learn when you take away their entire season.
And the retaliation to that incident arguably cost Colorado a Stanley Cup the following season.
The key lesson there is that Detroit:
a) Didn't do it with enforcers, they did it with guys like Shanahan and McCarty who scored a bunch of key goals that season, as well as randos like Larionov and Vernon getting involved.
b) Didn't mess around with trying to make it look legit. McCarty saw his opportunity and went for it with 100% transparency about what was happening.
I guarantee that if the Rangers do tomorrow night what the Wings did on 3/26/97, Wilson's next suspension would be Torres-esque to prevent a repeat.
Or just don’t put yourself in that situation in the first place? You know, use some intelligence? Wilson is a piece of garbage, don’t get me wrong, but Panarin did himself no favors by jumping on Wilson’s back. What do you know about my moral code? Maybe keep your mouth shut when it comes to implying shit.
It doesn't make sense to go as macro as trying to find some unitary cause that explains decreased violence is completely unrelated areas like murder rates and hockey fights.
Violent crime went down in the US during the 90s and aughts because the economy was strong, cities were being gentrified, and police forces were given carte blanche.
Hockey became less goonish because fans were sick of seeing the most entertaining players (Lindros, Kariya, Crosby...) have their careers derailed by replacement-level nobodies. That and the rise of CTE awareness and what it would mean for the future of collision sports if leagues ignored it.
Can you please provide me a list of actual tough guys Wilson kicked the crap out of? Every actual big dude he’s fought that I can remember, he’s gotten his ass handed to him.
Scott Stevens, Derian hatcher, Darius Kasparaitis were not replacement level nobodies.
The lead analysis does not claim it is a single cause (obviously about nothing ever is), but some models say that it could explain has much has 50%, but it has quite the correlation vs causation issue and isolating an factor is rarely easy.
The graph is violent crime not murder rate, if fighting in non-combat sport is completely unrelated to the society general violence level it is possible, but I am not sure if we know that for sure, the decrease in fighting in hockey do match the reduction of violence in general a bit, but again maybe coincidence.
Enforcers didn't clean up hockey and suspensions haven't done it either.
Penalize the team. Have Toronto review dangerous/reckless actions like this and give them the ability to throw players directly out of the game plus a massive penalty for their team, for example Wilson gets a game misconduct+ here, so 5+2 or 5+5 or hell 5+5+2. Once these players' teams go through enough 7-12 minute PKs and lose games, they will make sure a Reaves or Wilson clean up their game (or no team will sign them anymore).
That's your solution. I personally don't want hockey to go there but if you're truly concerned about player safety, that's what you want to advocate. It comes with a ton of its own potential issues but again, if player safety is THAT important to you it's your only path forward.
Going back enforcers ain't it chief.
True. Too bad Julien Gauthier is a wimp.
The league has always been in the Dark Ages. They made strides to clean it up when Crosby was drafted and the Pens needed saving. It's regressing rapidly again. I have no interest in 1990s goon hockey.
An insult compared to other leagues enforcement of dirty plays.
It is a bit ironic that we need more heavyweights like Marty McSorely to police cheapshots, when this is a guy who has literally axed another player over the head with his stick.
Personally, I don't think you need a nuclear deterrent, since most of those players can't keep up anyway. A prime Lucic or a Martin would be nice, as they can contribute with their fists and their hockey skills, but it's not a necessity. You need team toughness and a willingness to stand up for one another, in spite of how big the other guy is. Not to mention, you don't have to beat the other guy over the head to send a message. A simple stick to the wrists should solve the problem, Ted Lindsay/Bobby Clarke-style. Wilson would learn his lesson that way.
If you want truffles, you have to be willing to get into the dirt with the pigs.
I'd like to see someone put tw in his place. Flexing after what he pulled put him in ultimate douchebag territory.
Not dedicated ones. They are close to extinct
But bottom 6 winger/Ds that can fight/hold their own
Separate names with a comma.