It’s too late

LeafFever

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Feb 12, 2016
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O Dog with more bad commentary.

The only team that plays "physical" in the East playoffs is Boston and there is more just Chara and cheap shots from Marchand.

TB rolls all skill lineups out there and everyone thinks they are just fine.

O'Neil is thinking about how the league played 20 years ago
I do agree that the thinking you need to play physical was great the years the Leafs beat Ottawa in the playoffs. I am not so sure that is true anymore. Boston is a 1 line team and severely lacks speed.
 

Mess

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Leafs are bottom 5 in the NHL in most shots against/g and that is in part because they lack size and strength to win puck battles in their own zone and along the boards in order to break up the opposition cycle.

Smaller, softer players are at the mercy of teams that can dump and chase and cycle well.

A team like Boston in #2 in fewest shots against and that is due in part to their team strength and composition to win key puck battles and sustain possession in the opposition zone.
 

TakeTheBody

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Jan 10, 2018
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Physicality will always mean something in hockey. More so in the playoffs. Agreed it means less today. But to completely ignore it and live by Corsi alone. Hopefully not the smartest thing you've ever done.
 
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diceman934

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Since you equate physicality with hits when talking about Komarov in the post before the one I quote here, I think it should be pointed out that the Blackhawks are last in hits since 06, and only Minnesota comes even close.
Please do not speak for me. I used the example of Leo hits to support my opinion that Leo is in fact physical maybe you should stick to posting only your own opinions and let me post mine.

Just an FYI the hawks also have one of the meanest player in the league playing for them and as well were among the best possession teams in the league which affects the number of hits a team has even an opportunity to throw.
 

Walshy7

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A talented ass kicking forward certainly wouldn't hurt the Leafs....

insert 30 other NHL teams too pretty much. That is the holy grail, a big talented forward who also has a mean streak. That is pretty much the reason Tyler Biggs types become 1st round picks, people hoping they could turn into that scoring physical beasts.
 

Nithoniniel

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Please do not speak for me. I used the example of Leo hits to support my opinion that Leo is in fact physical maybe you should stick to posting only your own opinions and let me post mine.
I didn't mean to speak for you in any way. All I meant is that if you consider hits as a proxy for physicality, then it should be pointed out that Hawks are last in the league.

Just an FYI the hawks also have one of the meanest player in the league playing for them and as well were among the best possession teams in the league which affects the number of hits a team has even an opportunity to throw.
Being mean is not the same as being physical though. As for possession, last I saw hits had no correlation with possession at all. Kings are the most physical team in the same period that I mentioned, and they are also among the best possession teams in the same stretch.
 

diceman934

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I never said hits are a proxy for being physical.

I used it as an example to show that Leo was among the leaders in hits to a poster who said Leo was not physical I also said in this thread that a player who takes a hit to make a play is also playing physical. To me that is the most important part of playing physically...engaging in the game physically is taking hits to make plays, blocking shots, giving hits, and not avoiding contact.

Now the kings played a dump and chase game a lot which would lead to lots of hits and as they were effective at playing that style good possession numbers. They had good D man who could skate and move the puck which also helped their possession stats.
 

Pookie

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Keep in mind that we are a soft team. So of course fans of the team will say that physicality doesn’t matter.

I’m sure that fans in cities that place some value on physicality would offer a differing opinion.
 
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djdev

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Have you considered, at all, how many more points we might have earned with better player personnel decisions? Maybe Boston and TB are chasing us for home ice advantage.

Oh, never mind, coach Babcock can do no wrong!
its not that he can do no wrong, its that some fans are never satisfied and think they know better. have i agreed with everyone of his decisions...obviously not. but hes the coach for a reason. hes spent a lifetime in hockey..developing kids and winning cups and gold medals. if he makes the odd blunder is fine. hes done a ton for this team in the past 2 years.
 
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TheProspector

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Hell even LA wasnt super physical, they focused on having the puck at all times
While I agree with most posters here that Pittsburgh/Chicago model clearly indicates this isn't a concern, LA was an absolute physical monster. Remember LA vs STL? That was the most violent playoff series I can remember.
 

Al14

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Jul 13, 2007
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its not that he can do no wrong, its that some fans are never satisfied and think they know better. have i agreed with everyone of his decisions...obviously not. but hes the coach for a reason. hes spent a lifetime in hockey..developing kids and winning cups and gold medals. if he makes the odd blunder is fine. hes done a ton for this team in the past 2 years.

Babcock has only won one Stanley Cup, in 2008, with a pretty stacked Detroit Red Wings team!

His Gold medal wins at the Olympics, and World Championships, were also with teams that were pretty stacked with talent too!

Our Leafs have over 100 points this season despite Babcock's continuous blunders that he has made with player personnel selections. I think our Leafs could have had home ice advantage right now if not for some of the mistakes Babcock has made all season long!

Babcock is a good coach, but, he makes some very puzzling decisions with who he chooses to play and with whom. He also fails to stack his lineup when it's appropriate to do so.

JMHO.
 
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djdev

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Babcock has only won one Stanley Cup, in 2008, with a pretty stacked Detroit Red Wings team!

His Gold medal wins at the Olympics, and World Championships, were also with teams that were pretty stacked with talent too!

Our Leafs have over 100 points this season despite Babcock's continuous blunders that he has made with player personnel selections. I think our Leafs could have had home ice advantage right now if not for some of the mistakes Babcock has made all season long!

Babcock is a good coach, but, he makes some very puzzling decisions with who he chooses to play and with whom. He also fails to stack his lineup when it's appropriate to do so.

JMHO.
the point i was trying to make is he is more qualified to make hockey based decisions than you or me. i dont mind people questioning his decisions..i do as well on occasion, but the amount of flak he gets is unreal considering what kind of team we were just 2 years ago. im fairly confident his decisions on the lineup are fairly well thought out and involve input from the multiple hockey experts we have on the payroll. he has done enough with this franchise so far in the past few years to be given the benefit of the doubt.

jmho
 

stickty111

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Jan 23, 2017
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Babcock has only won one Stanley Cup, in 2008, with a pretty stacked Detroit Red Wings team!

His Gold medal wins at the Olympics, and World Championships, were also with teams that were pretty stacked with talent too!

Our Leafs have over 100 points this season despite Babcock's continuous blunders that he has made with player personnel selections. I think our Leafs could have had home ice advantage right now if not for some of the mistakes Babcock has made all season long!

Babcock is a good coach, but, he makes some very puzzling decisions with who he chooses to play and with whom. He also fails to stack his lineup when it's appropriate to do so.

JMHO.
Wrong as usual.
 

Al14

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Jul 13, 2007
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Wrong as usual.
Please be specific as to what parts of the post are wrong!

Babcock has won more than 1 Stanley Cup?

The Red Wings weren't a stacked team in 2008?

Team Canada wasn't full of top rated players when he was coach?

Babcock plays Hyman on the first line, no matter what?

Komarov on the power play?

His penchant to demote only certain players for their mistakes?

His complete dedication to 'Gud Pros' no matter how bad they play?

Failure to stack the lines when behind by a goal late in a game?

Failure to shorten the bench and double shift our top talent when required?

Babcock is a good coach, but, he has his faults!

But yeah, I'm wrong to say anything negative about Mike Babcock!
 
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stickty111

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Jan 23, 2017
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Please be specific as to what parts of the post are wrong!

Babcock has won more than 1 Stanley Cup?

The Red Wings weren't a stacked team in 2008?

Team Canada wasn't full of top rated players when he was coach?

Babcock plays Hyman on the first line, no matter what?

Komarov on the power play?

His penchant to demote only certain players for their mistakes?

His complete dedication to 'Gud Pros' no matter how bad they play?

Failure to stack the lines when behind by a goal late in a game?

Failure to shorten the bench and double shift our top talent when required?

Babcock is a good coach, but, he has his faults!

But yeah, I'm wrong to say anything negative about Mike Babcock!
Guess what. Every coach that wins has good teams, but sure we only use that to diminish Babcock.
They were a great team but so was the Hawks, maybe Joel Quenville only wins with stacked teams, but that point is only allowed to be used against Babcock I guess.
Every coach has certain habits which are questionable, so lets stop assuming its only Babcock.
All coaches have favorites so its not just him.
Babcock is a great coach who like every other coach, has faults.

Yeah though, your only allowed to look at the negative things.
 
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saltming

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Guess what. Every coach that wins has good teams, but sure we only use that to diminish Babcock.
They were a great team but so was the Hawks, maybe Joel Quenville only wins with stacked teams, but that point is only allowed to be used against Babcock I guess.
Every coach has certain habits which are questionable, so lets stop assuming its only Babcock.
All coaches have favorites so its not just him.
Babcock is a great coach who like every other coach, has faults.

Yeah though, your only allowed to look at the negative things.
Could you please refrain from using logic when talking about Babcock.
Such use of reason and common sense is a little much for me right now.
I will send you the memo on hyperbole tunnel vision and confirmation bias. Please ensure you study it well and I hope to see the fruits of your study in your future posts.
Thank you
:teach2:
 
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Pookie

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It’s a long series.

Let’s hope they can adjust.

Otherwise, the Bruins’ collective grit did effectively shut down our offensive stars in Game 1
 

DavePoulin4PM

2x NHL all star, Selke winner, NHL exec
Nov 6, 2017
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This management group has absolutely no clue how to build a team to compete in the playoffs.

Not adding a dman at the deadline? Not adding any grit at all? Do they not realize that the playoffs are a totally different beast? This management group was so quick to ship out Dion Phaneuf to turn around and give his $$ to Zaitsev and Matt Martin. They just don’t get it. Leafs could’ve used Dion in the worst way. Say what you want but the guy is a hired gun for teams looking to make a playoff run. The Leafs management really think that they are the smartest guys in the league.. and they’re getting a big time reality check. This team is way too soft. You do not need goons, but you do need grit in playoffs.

Kadri and Polak are really the only 2 players who are tough to play against, and Kadri is about to get suspended. This management team just doesn’t get it. Anyone can tank for top picks and overpay for guys like Marleau/ make Babcock the highest paid coach in history. These aren’t impressive moves. How are they going to get this team to compete in the playoffs? Clearly, they have no clue.
 
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hoglund

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I don't think he'll get suspended, the same play shows Marner getting elbowed, so if there is a suspension, both Kadri and Wingels will be suspended and that wouldn't be good for either teams or the NHL.
 

Pookie

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I think this playoffs will feature more penalties.
More than previous playoffs.

Automatic penalties will still be called.

You hack with your stick .. penalty.
You interfere with the offence ? penalty.
It was called automatically all season .... and this will follow into the playoffs.

I think the NHL likes penalties because it keeps scoring high.


This NHL season started differently.
ALOT more penalties.
This is going to continue into the playoffs.

How's this working out so far ;)
 

Pookie

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I don't think he'll get suspended, the same play shows Marner getting elbowed, so if there is a suspension, both Kadri and Wingels will be suspended and that wouldn't be good for either teams or the NHL.

It was a 2 min penalty kind of elbow.
 

HamiltonNHL

Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
Jan 4, 2012
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How's this working out so far ;)
Alot more penalties it was !
They called that stick slash on Nylander BEHIND the play ... and they would have been much less like likley to call that last year.

upload_2018-4-13_12-43-25.png


and 3 PPGs to prove it.
upload_2018-4-13_12-45-14.png
 

Rielly4

Registered User
Dec 12, 2012
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This management group has absolutely no clue how to build a team to compete in the playoffs.

Not adding a dman at the deadline? Not adding any grit at all? Do they not realize that the playoffs are a totally different beast? This management group was so quick to ship out Dion Phaneuf to turn around and give his $$ to Zaitsev and Matt Martin. They just don’t get it. Leafs could’ve used Dion in the worst way. Say what you want but the guy is a hired gun for teams looking to make a playoff run. The Leafs management really think that they are the smartest guys in the league.. and they’re getting a big time reality check. This team is way too soft. You do not need goons, but you do need grit in playoffs.

Kadri and Polak are really the only 2 players who are tough to play against, and Kadri is about to get suspended. This management team just doesn’t get it. Anyone can tank for top picks and overpay for guys like Marleau/ make Babcock the highest paid coach in history. These aren’t impressive moves. How are they going to get this team to compete in the playoffs? Clearly, they have no clue.
IS that you Pouly? A little rattled you were fired? LOL
 

ottomaddox

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Oct 31, 2017
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Jeff O’Neill, the TV commentator/analyst, opined that the Leafs has “no pyhsicality’ and that this needed to change or they would be physically crushed in the playoffs. This on the Toronto-Winnipeg telecast last Saturday.

But it’s too late-there is no fix. And please, coach, don’t insert Leo Komarov in again, because he has a “wide body” (his quote) and because he is a defensive presence. The Leafs are a run and gun team and that is our identity. That fourth line with Kapanen and Johnsson on the wings maintains that purity, that blinding speed, the four lines rolled out. How different a dynamic with Komarov in there, I can feel the whole team sag, slow down.

Jeff O’Neill articulates the Leafs looming playoff crisis, can they with-stand the physical pounding as opponents focus on their frailty. A slow ‘wide body’ will do nothing to change that. Nor will Matt Martins presence-the only remedy isthe continued willingness of Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Dermott etc., to take the pounding, or to personify the saying “you can’t hit what you can’t catch”.

I know I don’t have the insider knowledge, I know there is much I am not aware of, and maybe I’m delusional, but is it possible to succeed in the heavy hitting ‘refs let it all go’ cauldron that is the NHL playoffs with the offensive dynamo that the Leafs of late have evolved into?

A lot of people need to return to this thread and eat crow.

My sadness / disappointment started at the trade deadline. When Plekanec was our only deadline move I knew we were in trouble.

I understand that if the deals aren't there then there's nothing you can do about it.

I know the series isn't over, but I wouldn't be surprised if Babcock doesn't throw in the towel (first time in NHL history that a 7 game series was won in 3). I am shocked by TOR's response to Boston, but I am not surprised that the ref's whistles have been put away.

Keeping things in perspective we are early in the rebuild and a lot of teams like TOR go through these issues. Perhaps we don't know the extent of Matthews' injuries either.

I love the Leafs. I hope something positive comes out of this disaster.
 

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