ISS top 30 for January

Blind Gardien

nexus of the crisis
Apr 2, 2004
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I question a move of 22 places based upon one 6 game tournament. That's the folly of the WJC's if you ask me. Too much stock is put in this tournament.
If the WJC was held in, say, May, I reckon there wouldn't have been a sudden 22 place jump by any player, including Cherepanov, based on the WJC. Anyway, this jump doesn't seem to be based purely on the WJC, it also includes the nebulous nature of ALL early season rankings and their associated volatility, compounded by the specific nature of this year's draft crop. Cherepanov was due to ascend, that much is clear. Even without the WJC. If the WJC was in May, maybe he would have been jumping from 5 to 1. Instead, the correction happened earlier and seemingly more dramatically, but he would have reached the same spot eventually either way, so I don't see what difference it makes. :dunno:
 

ISS Hockey

Top30 Draft Rankings
If the WJC was held in, say, May, I reckon there wouldn't have been a sudden 22 place jump by any player, including Cherepanov, based on the WJC. Anyway, this jump doesn't seem to be based purely on the WJC, it also includes the nebulous nature of ALL early season rankings and their associated volatility, compounded by the specific nature of this year's draft crop. Cherepanov was due to ascend, that much is clear. Even without the WJC. If the WJC was in May, maybe he would have been jumping from 5 to 1. Instead, the correction happened earlier and seemingly more dramatically, but he would have reached the same spot eventually either way, so I don't see what difference it makes. :dunno:

Well said.:clap:
 

Redwingsfan

Global Moderator
Jul 15, 2006
20,370
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Well, last month, people were saying we had him too low. Now, they're saying we have him too high. Or is it just that you're suprised that we moved him up so much in one month?

He was named the top forward at the world junior tournament as a 17-year-old playing against mostly 18 and 19 year olds.

We believe that 17-year-olds shouldn't really drop based on their performance at this tournament, but when a kid stands out like Cherepanov did, it means he'll rise.

His rapid ascent in one month is a sign of two things
1) His stellar play at world junior in Sweden.
2) This year's draft class does not have a clearcut No. 1 pick. There is a top echelon. Cherepanov has entered it in our opinion and, based on his consistently good performance against older players in the Russian Super League, this makes him the frontrunner.


there is just one thing. we will never completely agree with your rankings. everyone has different opinions about who should be ranked where.;)
 

jtechkidbruin

Registered User
Nov 8, 2006
1,017
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surprised about kane

This is exactly what happened last year w/ EJ. With an outstanding tournament he was able to separate himself from Taves, Kessel and Backstrom.

Most fans and more then a few scouts had very limited viewing of Cherepanov. This was a chance to really watch a player play over 6-9 games (including pre-tourny). It is also against tallent their own age and considered the tops in the world (granted there are players left off, but you get my point).

I am really not stunned at all that he jumped. What really blows my mind is that Kane really didn't move.
"little shocked Kane is not top 3 since the kid was number 1 forward for Americans that have what 4-5forwards already first round picks. what impressed me most about kane is how much the USA coaching staff used him in pressure situations which tells me how much better than they thought he was than other first round forwards. JVR going number 3 barely even played much which I agree is not shocking and shouldn't really hurt him dramatically but just the opposite is Kane. Kane will go number 1-2 in the draft because EJ did the same thing last year and that will be the NHL teams biggest thought.
 

CanuckistanFlyerfan

Registered User
May 10, 2005
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"little shocked Kane is not top 3 since the kid was number 1 forward for Americans that have what 4-5forwards already first round picks. what impressed me most about kane is how much the USA coaching staff used him in pressure situations which tells me how much better than they thought he was than other first round forwards. JVR going number 3 barely even played much which I agree is not shocking and shouldn't really hurt him dramatically but just the opposite is Kane. Kane will go number 1-2 in the draft because EJ did the same thing last year and that will be the NHL teams biggest thought.

The NHL teams biggest thought on draft day is that Eric Johnson excelled at the WJCs and went # 1 so Kane should? I'm guessing they'll wait and see how the rest of his, and the other prospects year goes before picking.
 

GKJ

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
185,660
37,454
His rapid ascent in one month is a sign of two things
1) His stellar play at world junior in Sweden.
2) This year's draft class does not have a clearcut No. 1 pick. There is a top echelon. Cherepanov has entered it in our opinion and, based on his consistently good performance against older players in the Russian Super League, this makes him the frontrunner.


Are you able to disclose who the ISS considers to be in the said top echelon.
 

speedway

Registered User
Oct 6, 2006
187
0
Esposito has not responded well to being cut by Canadian junior team. We had doubts before and he is confirming them.

Not responded well in what way, performance since the cut?attitude?
 

Habsfan18

The Hockey Library
May 13, 2003
30,614
8,625
Ontario
wow, Backlund isn't even in the top 30 anymore.

Wasn't he a top prospect for the draft just a few months ago?
 

Hiishawk

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
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I think some of the shocks that readers express are due to a bit of a misunderstanding about draft ratings. I get the impression that they are thinking of the ranking as something like the college football team weekly rankings. So, if team A is rated 22nd initially and they have a good week, they may go up to,oh, #18 next week. And if they win again, they'll go up to maybe #15 the week after. The notion of a #22 team going all the way to #1 next week is pretty much impossible.

Draft rankings are much different. It is worldwide crapshoot of individuals for a good part of the year. Player X isn't seen too much except by one individual for half a season so you give him a cautious rating but then he shows all the other scouts what he's made of, under pressure, and he can definitely rise all the way to #1 within the space of a few weeks.

Likewise with dropping (a la Backlund). The intitial October ranking are a real shot in the dark, based on last season when the players in question really weren't being scrutinized much. Gradually, as it becomes apparent that the initial ranking wasn't accurate, the player could easily slip all the way out of the top 200 (a la Ruzicka last year). 17-18 year old players world wide, on many different stages, with just 6-8 months to prove themselves, yeah- it means that rankings are naturally volatile. In fact, I'd say that some of them are a little too conservative at times.

I put Turris as #1 about a month back, with Cherepanov top 5 (and even potential #1) and :eek::eek::eek::eek:i top 10. A lot of people thought that was too radical but I think it seems pretty reasonable now (although I may have overrated JVR it seems). I put them in those positions because of what I had seen and heard from scouts- not based on adjustments from what many seem to see as almost "canonical" October rankings.

Don't be surprised if one or two months from now some guy you've never or barely ever heard of breaks top 10 ground. It happens every year.
 

Panopticon

Registered User
Apr 20, 2004
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Helsinki
Does anyone know if Joonas Jalvanti is ranked at all or does anyone see him getting drafted?

From my point of view he had a pretty good WJC and was one of the better Finnish defenders (outperforming drafted Finn defenders like Leinonen and Lehtivuori and in my opinion he defensively outperformed Seppänen as well) while also being the youngest. I think he's eligible this year for the first time since he's a late 88...
 

hawksfan50

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
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The bottom line about Cherepanov: In the "big" (gold medal) game --he disappeared,which was disappointing considering how well he played in the rest of the tournament...it was also surprising,since up till then he looked very good in other games using his strength (which is surprising for his size) along the boards and to fight off checks to go to the net--so that his reputation is not as a perimeter player--but somehow you wonder if he feared Canada getting physical with him?---if so,then that is a concern(maybe he just had a poor game,but if he doubts himself in the "big game" then you have a bigger problem of a guy who can't elevate if the going gets a bit harder with tougher competition)...add to that the transfer issues with Russians,and you do have a riskier pick...
 

VanW27

Registered User
Jun 9, 2003
4,725
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Canada
Are you able to disclose who the ISS considers to be in the said top echelon.

This wasnt directed to me but IMO the top 10 are a step above, with basically everyone in the top 10 getting fairly recent press for number 1 or at least talk of going in the top 3 (with the possible exception of Petrecki), with all ten guys looking like potential first line/first pairing players . After 10 there are some guys that are interesting but with a lot of question marks.
 

Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
32,266
8,893
This wasnt directed to me but IMO the top 10 are a step above, with basically everyone in the top 10 getting fairly recent press for number 1 or at least talk of going in the top 3 (with the possible exception of Petrecki), with all ten guys looking like potential first line/first pairing players . After 10 there are some guys that are interesting but with a lot of question marks.
That's more or less my untrained take as well, though I'd move Petrecki outside of the 10 that are a notch above the rest and put Ellerby in there instead.

The cut-above-the-rest seem to be Voracek, Cherepanov, Kane, Gagner, Esposito, Alzner, Turris, Van Riemsdyk, Couture and Ellerby. But lots could change between now and draft day.
 

Kaizer

Registered User
Apr 26, 2003
4,574
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Berlin, Germany
The bottom line about Cherepanov: In the "big" (gold medal) game --he disappeared,which was disappointing considering how well he played in the rest of the tournament...it was also surprising,since up till then he looked very good in other games using his strength (which is surprising for his size) along the boards and to fight off checks to go to the net--so that his reputation is not as a perimeter player--but somehow you wonder if he feared Canada getting physical with him?---if so,then that is a concern(maybe he just had a poor game,but if he doubts himself in the "big game" then you have a bigger problem of a guy who can't elevate if the going gets a bit harder with tougher competition)...add to that the transfer issues with Russians,and you do have a riskier pick...

19 years old Malkin didn't show up against Staal and Co when they were year younger :dunno:
 

Nash

Registered User
Jul 23, 2004
3,082
16
Vancouver
The bottom line about Cherepanov: In the "big" (gold medal) game --he disappeared,which was disappointing considering how well he played in the rest of the tournament...it was also surprising,since up till then he looked very good in other games using his strength (which is surprising for his size) along the boards and to fight off checks to go to the net--so that his reputation is not as a perimeter player--but somehow you wonder if he feared Canada getting physical with him?---if so,then that is a concern(maybe he just had a poor game,but if he doubts himself in the "big game" then you have a bigger problem of a guy who can't elevate if the going gets a bit harder with tougher competition)...add to that the transfer issues with Russians,and you do have a riskier pick...

Both Ovechkin and Malkin did very little in the last two gold medal games against Canada. Canada has arguably had the best defensive group the world juniors the past few years. I wouldn't put much stock in a 17 year old having a hard time against them.
 

kovalev27hf

Registered User
Aug 3, 2005
433
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nyc
neither would i. personally i have no problem with cherepanov moving up i expected it i was a little surprised however that kane didnt move up further. i thought for sure he'd be like top 3. alzner is a surprise to me at 2 and esposito falling to 10 is a big shocker as well never saw that coming.
 

cupcrazyman

Stupid Sexy Flanders
Aug 14, 2006
16,404
1,469
Leafland
I was born and raised in Arizona, so I don't know a whole lot about hockey prospects. It seems to me, though, that people put way, way too much emphasis on a draft eligable player's performance at the WJC's. I mean, it's just one tournament, and for most it's the first time they've participated.
we as fans get to watch the wjc and its players for less than 2 weeks and give our opinion.the nhl teams SCOUT these players all year, so i would say they know a lot more than just the casual fan base.
 

5mn Major

Registered User
Jan 14, 2006
938
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Weak draft fort the american hockey program ! :amazed:

Not a weak draft for America...outside Minnesota that is. If my math is right, 18 Americans went if the two previous drafts. Of those 8 or nearly half, of the Americans drafted were from Minnesota. There are 5 non-Minnesotan Americans projected in the first round this year...right on the previous two years average. Even so, this year Minnesota only has 1 pick rated in the first round. Expect the state to return a lot of players to the top of the draft the next two years though.
 

helicecopter

Registered User
Mar 8, 2003
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A bit strange...Luca :eek::eek::eek::eek:i made the list yet didn't make our world junior team. Where's Juraj Simek in all this?
Already drafted, by the Canucks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juraj_Simek
anyone know how is it that he has the Swiss nationality as well?
has he grown up in Switzerland?

I'm puzzled as well about the fact :eek::eek::eek::eek:i didn't make the Swiss team.. anyone with any insight?
 

ISS Hockey

Top30 Draft Rankings
there is just one thing. we will never completely agree with your rankings. everyone has different opinions about who should be ranked where.;)

I know. :) I respectfully disagree with others quite often and I would be surprised -- shocked, actually -- if anybody agreed completely with our rankings.

What I would like though, and this is part of the reason I post on these boards, is for people to engage in some sort of debate. If you disagree with a player's ranking, say why and say how high you think he should be ranked.

I'm not making a personal attack on anybody when I say this, but if someone posts something like this: "This list doesn't have this player in the top 30. It's a joke."

Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but the whole point of a debate is not simply to express your opinion, but to try and convince others that you are right. Simply saying you are right does not do that.

I love a good debate, even with people who have differing opinions. So, let the debates begin.
 

ISS Hockey

Top30 Draft Rankings
Already drafted, by the Canucks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juraj_Simek
anyone know how is it that he has the Swiss nationality as well?
has he grown up in Switzerland?

I'm puzzled as well about the fact :eek::eek::eek::eek:i didn't make the Swiss team.. anyone with any insight?

:eek::eek::eek::eek:i's age perhaps had something to do with it. World junior is generally for older players and his country was hosting the Five Nations Cup featuring top 89s. He was probably good enough to play in Sweden, but maybe Swiss hockey federation/coaches, or he, preferred to play in Five Nations on home soil. He played very well there, by the way.
 

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