ISS Top 15 for February

[Ted Hoffman]

Can anyone tell me why Frolik with 2goals in 44 games is considered a Top10 guy. I have never heard anyone explain. He does not even seem like a round 1 guy. Ordinary tournaments. Fedz said he thought he would not be top10. What's the deal with frolik?

Stats always tell the entire story about a player - you need not look any farther to get info.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

I agree...it's ridiculous to say Kessel can't get better. He reminds me a lot of Vanek when Vanek played at Minnesota. Was so used to beating people with "moves" that it takes him a good half season or more to start using his teammates. The big difference between Vanek and Kessel is that Kessel is already on the PK. I don't think Vanek ever saw the ice on the PK, certainly not in the first half of his freshman year.

Ok so you have a stellar offensive talent and someone whose defensive game is kinda like Marian Gaborik's, he doesn't really have much to offer other than speed. Its actually a complement saying Kessel's offensive game doesn't have much more room to grow. He's a great skater, he's got a great shot, and his agility allows him to maneuvre in different ways to make a variety type of passes. What I am saying is what you see in Kessel's game now is what you're gonna get in the NHL. IF he can't translate his talents from the NCAA, well then you have a guy that will fall of the face of prospect earth because he won't be a 3rd or 4th liner.

IMO Toews still needs the offensive game he showed in Shattuck to come around. He is more lethal than Kessel in that regard. We don't know how he is going to perform and take to sophomore year. He can become a much stronger and faster skater, a consistent scorer, a highlite reel playmaking center.

Maybe I should have said Toews has more development room than Kessel? Whatever it is, I like Kessel better as a collegian and Toews as an NHL'er.

 

[Chrisd]

kessel can improve in areas...without a doubt...he can work on his slap shot, has a good wrister and backhand...

he also can work on his playmaking skills, he's pretty good, but could always get better, and realize he can trust his teammates, and they will get him the puck back.

He's already got the speed, wrist shot...but like every prospect he can get better and there is stuff he can work on.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

kessel can improve in areas...without a doubt...he can work on his slap shot, has a good wrister and backhand...

he also can work on his playmaking skills, he's pretty good, but could always get better, and realize he can trust his teammates, and they will get him the puck back.

He's already got the speed, wrist shot...but like every prospect he can get better and there is stuff he can work on.

Thats just broadly stating the motions every prospect goes through. Sure you can name all the aspects of a players game and say "well he can always get better". But I'm aiming it at more of a whole career type of assessment. The past, the present, and the future. The player I see now in Kessel is going to be the same more or less in 10 years. Whereas Toews can wind up being something totally different than what his first college season has shown.

 

[Chrisd]

alrighty we'll just wait and see is all I will say.

I expect both to have nice careers, but I see Kessel as being the more dynamic player, better producer and more regarded player.

Time will tell...oh time will tell.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

alrighty we'll just wait and see is all I will say.

I expect both to have nice careers, but I see Kessel as being the more dynamic player, better producer and more regarded player.

Time will tell...oh time will tell.

sounds good, these are young guys with dreams and I wish them the best. In no way do I not want Kessel to succeed while Toews does. Good luck to them all.

 

[MN_Gopher]

Kessel last year was compared to Crosby-like franchise material;since Kessel has not torn up the NCAA as a freshman (does anyone doubt Crosby would not have put up 3points a game at the NCAA level?)--it is safe to say he has way underperformed expectations...therefore there is no great"gap" between him and some of the other top ten forwards in this draft...he has both good points and bad flaws...one might argue that an offensive talent like Bryan Little (ISS rated #9 overall) might equally have put up the same or better numbers if he had been in Kessel's place as a freshman at Minnesota

Do you know anything about the NCAA? The last player to put up 2 points a game was Kariya in 92-93. The NCAA was realativly weak then too. Heatley could not even manage 1.5 ppg in college. Kessel has been very solid for the U. Whose expecations are you going by. Yours? Or a person who knew and knows what to exept from the second youngest player in D1 hockey?

 

[MN_Gopher]

Ok so you have a stellar offensive talent and someone whose defensive game is kinda like Marian Gaborik's, he doesn't really have much to offer other than speed. Its actually a complement saying Kessel's offensive game doesn't have much more room to grow. He's a great skater, he's got a great shot, and his agility allows him to maneuvre in different ways to make a variety type of passes. What I am saying is what you see in Kessel's game now is what you're gonna get in the NHL. IF he can't translate his talents from the NCAA, well then you have a guy that will fall of the face of prospect earth because he won't be a 3rd or 4th liner.

IMO Toews still needs the offensive game he showed in Shattuck to come around. He is more lethal than Kessel in that regard. We don't know how he is going to perform and take to sophomore year. He can become a much stronger and faster skater, a consistent scorer, a highlite reel playmaking center.

Maybe I should have said Toews has more development room than Kessel? Whatever it is, I like Kessel better as a collegian and Toews as an NHL'er.

From the Alberta series to the last series vs Denver he has made huge strides in his devolpment. To say he will be same player is selling him short. Can he get faster? I do not think so. His shot is not going to change much. But he is getting it. He is making the right descion at the right time. Pulling up and dishing to wing, or driving hard and getting it on net. He is creating more chances and is looking like he has a better understanding of the game. IMO it is hard to tell that if you do not watch every game. But he is coming way around in his hockey IQ.

And alot of what i hear about Kessel are simular to what i heard about Vanek. Soft, floater, non-team player, D liability. Well in reading about his play. I hear he has back checked hard at times, even went down to block a shot, gets into tuscles to stick up for himself. All things alot of people said he never had in him.

I am not saying he is golden and a sure thing. But he is a young 18 year old kid. He is still growing. He is getting stronger and smarter.

 

[Goldy]

I am a season ticket holder who has seen him live 16 times this season and on TV several more. I concur that he has greatly improved from the beginning of the year. He has adjusted to the speed and the size of the other players, but especially he has learned to trust his linemates. His no longer tries to do everything himself.

Here are some additional considerations:

Kessel plays on the second line with another freshman (Blake Wheeler), and a sophomore who was not a regular last year (Ben Gordon). If the team concentrated their top three forwards all on the same line, his numbers would be even better.

As mentioned earlier, he plays regularly on the penalty kill. That alone should indicate that his defense is not quite as suspect as his reputation on these boards.

His plus minus (another indication of defensive proclivity) is +11, which is only four off the top +/- on the team.

Areas where he can improve?
1) shooting accuracy - He averages 5 shots a game, which is outstanding, but is converting only 9% of his shots.
2) strength - He doesn't seem like he's quite as big as he measures. He's not a weakling, but a little extra muscle will help him in many ways.
3) face offs - he wins 51% of his faceoffs. Not bad, but clearly there is room for improvement.

 

[Slats432]

I must say, I don't like their rankings.

Toews before Kessel? No Williams in the top 15? Frolik too high, Backstrom too low.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

As mentioned earlier, he plays regularly on the penalty kill. That alone should indicate that his defense is not quite as suspect as his reputation on these boards.

That is a good post on Kessel, but I have a question on this. How much of his being on the PK is based on his pure defensive ability rather than just using his speed as an asset for breakaways and shorthanded opportunities? By default, the play will be disrupted by anything his speed creates but I still don't see a guy whose defensive abilities can be championed just because he's on the PK.

 

[OilerOlli*]

Vasyunov at 11th
He was all the time underrated.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

Vasyunov at 11th
He was all the time underrated.

Can you describe him? I haven't seen him at all, but he seems to be one that people wont let go. He was hyped bigtime before this year but now looks to have regressed. But still he's held in high regard. Like Evseev, Latendresse etc.

 

[OilerOlli*]

Can you describe him? I haven't seen him at all, but he seems to be one that people wont let go. He was hyped bigtime before this year but now looks to have regressed. But still he's held in high regard. Like Evseev, Latendresse etc.

He had great seasons in the juniors broke some rcords and everybody thought he could be the next Kovalchuk or Ovechkin. In the last year he was not that impressive anymore, but still is a great prospect imo.
A sniper with good stickhandling.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

That is a good post on Kessel, but I have a question on this. How much of his being on the PK is based on his pure defensive ability rather than just using his speed as an asset for breakaways and shorthanded opportunities? By default, the play will be disrupted by anything his speed creates but I still don't see a guy whose defensive abilities can be championed just because he's on the PK.

If Kessel was as bad defensively as many like to portray him, Don Lucia wouldn't have him on the PK, it's that simple. He's not the kind of coach that coddles "super stars" and bestows oodles of ice time for the hell of it. He's there to win games, which is what Minnesota is doing, a fact that is being obscured on these boards.

 

[MetalLeka]

Is Jesse Joensuu totally gone and forgotten?

 

[X-SHARKIE]

I dont' like the rankings..

But Toews is intriguing. The thing that I don't understand is that when I saw him play for Shattuck against the Madison Capitols and then later at the U-17's.... it was his playmaking that really stood out, I mean it looked elite... Now at the NCAA level he's been a better finisher then playmaker.

If he can get both to click... watch out.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

If Kessel was as bad defensively as many like to portray him, Don Lucia wouldn't have him on the PK, it's that simple. He's not the kind of coach that coddles "super stars" and bestows oodles of ice time for the hell of it. He's there to win games, which is what Minnesota is doing, a fact that is being obscured on these boards.

Yes, but you're obscuring things the same. Kessel is a threat on the penalty kill for his speed and offense, not because of his defense. That's right Lucia is there to win games, and if putting Kessel on the PK because he's dangerous and will get some opportunities to put away a shorthander, he's going to give him that ice time. Is Kessel a willing shotblocker? Is Kessel willing to freeze the puck along the boards with two opponents giving shots to him? He's not one to battle in the corners on offense, let alone do it on defense.

He's not bad defensively, but he's not good either. His asset is his speed. If used willingly with hustle and determination, it can negate any odd man rush or send the play in the other direction and take time off the clock.

 

[Goldy]

Yes, but you're obscuring things the same. Kessel is a threat on the penalty kill for his speed and offense, not because of his defense. That's right Lucia is there to win games, and if putting Kessel on the PK because he's dangerous and will get some opportunities to put away a shorthander, he's going to give him that ice time. Is Kessel a willing shotblocker? Is Kessel willing to freeze the puck along the boards with two opponents giving shots to him? He's not one to battle in the corners on offense, let alone do it on defense.

He's not bad defensively, but he's not good either. His asset is his speed. If used willingly with hustle and determination, it can negate any odd man rush or send the play in the other direction and take time off the clock.

Clearly his speed helps him, but the Gopher's PK requires the forwards to play in front of the puck, cutting off the shooting lane, and preventing passes into the slot, not attack the puckhandler. It is not an aggressive forechecking scheme like some teams employ. Therefore, the argument that he is out there for shorthanded breakaways is not valid.

Also note - Kessel did not play on the PK the first half of the season, which in part reflects that his defensive play earlier in the year left room for improvement.

 

[VanW27]

Sheppard is a player that I just haven't gotten to see this year. Can anyone post some thoughts on him? I've read people rave about his skating for a big guy but Taylor Pyatt creeps into my mind. How is his shot and hand skills in tight spaces?

He has tremendous strength and puck possesion skills along the boards. I am very high on Sheppard myself but i do see some Chad Kilger in him.

As far as his hands go he is a very good passer with soft hands but he does seem to lack a little something on his shot/scoring touch but if he works hard and improves his release i think he could be an extremely good player.

 

[#66]

He has tremendous strength and puck possesion skills along the boards. I am very high on Sheppard myself but i do see some Chad Kilger in him.

As far as his hands go he is a very good passer with soft hands but he does seem to lack a little something on his shot/scoring touch but if he works hard and improves his release i think he could be an extremely good player.

Thanks.

 

[gibber1600]

I was @ the world juniors in Vancouver this year and Kessel looked out of place. Toews looked good. Kessel's performance or lack of, moved him down in the rankings.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I was @ the world juniors in Vancouver this year and Kessel looked out of place. Toews looked good. Kessel's performance or lack of, moved him down in the rankings.

gibberish.

 

[Meat Wave]

gibberish.

Rabid Ranger, I officially name you HFBoards' #1 defender of every American prospect.

 

[Riggins]

Rabid Ranger, I officially name you HFBoards' #1 defender of every American prospect.

I often wonder if he receives a paycheck for it...

He was right on this one however, that post was gibberish.