GDT: Isn't there a game tonight?

[Quid Pro Clowe]

By the way, Lucic did the exact same thing he cried about Prout doing when he turned his on button off. Only difference is Noesen ducked.

 

[tony d]

Another tough loss for the team last night. I think we should consider this a lost season and pick up the pieces for 2020-2021.

 

[hockfan1991]

hahh, he'll get tired and need some rest. LoL

82 Straight, we will force him into retirement.

 

[Pavelski2112]

It was nice to see Noesen try to do something. It isn't about the result of the battle, it's showing your team and teammates mean something to you and you aren't okay with guys getting run at.

That said, Dalton Prout better be pulled out of the cryogenic lab and thawed out before the Mar 23rd game.

Yea this game won me over to keeping Noesen around at least another season.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Yea this game won me over to keeping Noesen around at least another season.

No doubt. If they can get him for 1.5 or less for 2 or 3 years that would be a better investment than Milker. Wasn't he a first round draft pick? He's young enough he could still turn into a good 3rd liner. If he can add PK to is repertoire even better. Nice to have some physicality in the bottom 6 other than Goody.

 

[Pistol Pete]

I’ve really enjoyed Noesen since he’s arrived. I’m sure he can easily be kept for $900k-1m per on a 2 year, 1-way deal.

 

[SjMilhouse]

mmmh I don’t know... two crews get laid off following missed calls in the playoffs followed by condemning comments from the commish which never happens. That’s embarrassing and cost those crews a ton of money. The refs haven’t been objective since, anybody with eyes can see that. The sharks have been under the league average in TSH every season since 2010 and now all of the sudden are in the top 8 and are 29th in PP opportunities with pretty much the same core? Give me a break.

Why would the league punish a team for something it had nothing to do with? It’s not our fault the officials f***ed up. Give me a break

 

[Pavelski2112]

Why would the league punish a team for something it had nothing to do with? It’s not our fault the officials ****ed up. Give me a break

Don't think of it as punitive - think of it like this:

A lot of people thought that the Sharks were getting preferential treatment in the playoffs, even heavy-handedly so, because of some questionable and arguably embarrassing calls/non-calls. Doesn't it make sense that the league would try to actively look like they weren't favoring them?

 

[tiburon12]

Another tough loss for the team last night. I think we should consider this a lost season and pick up the pieces for 2020-2021.

are we posting like it's December?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Don't think of it as punitive - think of it like this:

A lot of people thought that the Sharks were getting preferential treatment in the playoffs, even heavy-handedly so, because of some questionable and arguably embarrassing calls/non-calls. Doesn't it make sense that the league would try to actively look like they weren't favoring them?

At this point, the Sharks are hardly selling out half the seats in their arena, and they probably aren't getting much viewership on TV. The league is not going to completely jeopardize their credibility and the legitimacy of their organization as a whole just to further beat up a team that is already dead in the water, and especially not when barely anybody outside of Alberta is watching the game.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

mmmh I don’t know... two crews get laid off following missed calls in the playoffs followed by condemning comments from the commish which never happens. That’s embarrassing and cost those crews a ton of money. The refs haven’t been objective since, anybody with eyes can see that. The sharks have been under the league average in TSH every season since 2010 and now all of the sudden are in the top 8 and are 29th in PP opportunities with pretty much the same core? Give me a break.

- PP to PK ratio is heavily influenced by the degree of play that a team controls.
- The Sharks have been an above average team by shot/expected goal shares in every season since 2010, they are terrible this year.
- The Sharks are employing some very undisciplined players who often start fights at the end of games they lose, which is becoming more and more frequent.

Occam's Razor. The league is not out to get us.

Lots of people with eyes disagree with you btw.

 

[Pavelski2112]

At this point, the Sharks are hardly selling out half the seats in their arena, and they probably aren't getting much viewership on TV. The league is not going to completely jeopardize their credibility and the legitimacy of their organization as a whole just to further beat up a team that is already dead in the water, and especially not when barely anybody outside of Alberta is watching the game.

Well, we can debate about whether they've had much of that all day.

 

[WSS11]

- PP to PK ratio is heavily influenced by the degree of play that a team controls.
- The Sharks have been an above average team by shot/expected goal shares in every season since 2010, they are terrible this year.
- The Sharks are employing some very undisciplined players who often start fights at the end of games they lose, which is becoming more and more frequent.

Occam's Razor. The league is not out to get us.

Lots of people with eyes disagree with you btw.

It appears a lot more agree with me. The sharks have employed plenty of goons and the occasional dirty player over the years and it’s never been this bad. Hell, look back at 2014-2015. A team that at one point or another iced the likes of John Scott, Tye McGinn, Adam Burish, Mike Brown, and Micheal Haley we’re bottom 5 in the league in TSH. Their CF was better but not their xGF.
Advanced analytics are not always a good substitute for the eye test. The amount of times we’ve seen Deboer and Boughner with that “you gotta be f***ing kidding me” flabbergasted look on their face this year is more than I’ve seen in the past three years combined. Listen I’m not using the refs as an excuse for the Sharks pitiful season because they are dog shit this year but the fact that hits like the ones on Ferraro have been let go with regularity signals to me that the sharks are not in very good standing officials and DOPS. In fact, I actually can’t recall the last time the sharks have had a hit against one of their players reviewed by the league.
Look at the PP to PK ratio in the blues series after the hand pass. The head shots that were completely ignored and not reviewed by DOPS afterward. Are you telling me that’s Corsi influenced that too or do you believe SJ would have gotten the same treatment if the jerseys were flipped? I’m a big time believer when it comes to a person’s subconscious and it’s influence on the decisions we make.
Whether it’s intentional or not I think the officials have been over compensating since Bettman publicly reprimanded them. Also, the league making two rule changes influenced by calls that went the sharks twice in the playoffs surely doesn’t help.

-Negativity Bias. The league may not be out to get the sharks but the events in last years playoffs can definitely have a lingering effect on the officials.

 

[STL Shark]

It appears a lot more agree with me. The sharks have employed plenty of goons and the occasional dirty player over the years and it’s never been this bad. Hell, look back at 2014-2015. A team that at one point or another iced the likes of John Scott, Tye McGinn, Adam Burish, Mike Brown, and Micheal Haley we’re bottom 5 in the league in TSH. Their CF was better but not their xGF.
Advanced analytics are not always a good substitute for the eye test. The amount of times we’ve seen Deboer and Boughner with that “you gotta be ****ing kidding me” flabbergasted look on their face this year is more than I’ve seen in the past three years combined. Listen I’m not using the refs as an excuse for the Sharks pitiful season because they are dog **** this year but the fact that hits like the ones on Ferraro have been let go with regularity signals to me that the sharks are not in very good standing officials and DOPS. In fact, I actually can’t recall the last time the sharks have had a hit against one of their players reviewed by the league.
Look at the PP to PK ratio in the blues series after the hand pass. The head shots that were completely ignored and not reviewed by DOPS afterward. Are you telling me that’s Corsi influenced that too or do you believe SJ would have gotten the same treatment if the jerseys were flipped? I’m a big time believer when it comes to a person’s subconscious and it’s influence on the decisions we make.
Whether it’s intentional or not I think the officials have been over compensating since Bettman publicly reprimanded them. Also, the league making two rule changes influenced by calls that went the sharks twice in the playoffs surely doesn’t help.

-Negativity Bias. The league may not be out to get the sharks but the events in last years playoffs can definitely have a lingering effect on the officials.

We are simply a bad hockey team this year. Nothing more, nothing less. This is the most asininely stupid argument of all time. Guarantee you 90% of the league forgot all about the events of last year's playoffs outside of the end results because they don't follow this team like those of us who use personal time to post on message boards about our favorite team with total strangers.

Contrary to what the vast majority of idiots on social media try and pump, the world is not some large overarching string of conspiracy theories and makeup calls.

 

[Douggernaut]

We are simply a bad hockey team this year. Nothing more, nothing less. This is the most asininely stupid argument of all time. Guarantee you 90% of the league forgot all about the events of last year's playoffs outside of the end results because they don't follow this team like those of us who use personal time to post on message boards about our favorite team with total strangers.

Contrary to what the vast majority of idiots on social media try and pump, the world is not some large overarching string of conspiracy theories and makeup calls.

I don't think anyone is claiming that it's a large conspiracy theory. But both the eye test and the stats show a stark difference in the calls for/against the Sharks and while some of it may be attributed to a lower possession percentage, I don't see how anyone can state with 100% confidence that there is no chance the refs may be influenced by the events of last year's playoffs. I know if I watched multiple coworkers be suspended for seemingly erring in favor of one client over another, it would always be in the back of my mind to make sure I don't do that moving forward, which could very easily subconsciously swing my bias the other way.

With regards to the DOPS, they're so inconsistent in the first place that it's hard to attribute any forethought to them, but, as they are the only public face of rule enforcement it wouldn't surprise me at all if there wasn't at least a little politicizing going on in their decision making. Upsetting a fan base/organization like San Jose by not suspending a player results in much less backlash against them than suspending a player on a Canadian team. It's likely not the deciding factor, but if you have a mindset like that going in to making a decision on punishment, over the long run, those decisions do tend to get biased. The major takeaway for me from last year's playoffs about the DOPS is that it doesn't care at all about actual player safety, just about maintaining an appearance that it cares.

In both situations it's not a concerted effort, but preexisting notions and past experience can make people be biased, even when they're trying to be impartial.

 

[WSS11]

We are simply a bad hockey team this year. Nothing more, nothing less. This is the most asininely stupid argument of all time. Guarantee you 90% of the league forgot all about the events of last year's playoffs outside of the end results because they don't follow this team like those of us who use personal time to post on message boards about our favorite team with total strangers.

Contrary to what the vast majority of idiots on social media try and pump, the world is not some large overarching string of conspiracy theories and makeup calls.

Holy f***... im not saying that Bettman is telling the officials to strike down on the sharks like some kind of vindictive hobit or that the refs are the reason the sharks are struggling. Just going off of behavioral psychology, I’m saying it’s fair to argue that the Sharks getting the short end of the stick on calls for and against can be attributed to past events that had negative consequences to the officials.

My statement has nothing to do with what bs % of the leagues fans remember but rather those that had a personal stake in the events. Also, the below is a direct contradiction to your last statement. Im just going to agree to disagree with you and JTR on the subject and leave it at that.

Kerry Fraser admits refs use ‘makeup calls’ after questionable penalties; also, water is wet

 

[one2gamble]

Contrary to what the vast majority of idiots on social media try and pump, the world is not some large overarching string of conspiracy theories and makeup calls.

yea but we are talking about hockey

 

[Anomie2029]

Yes, Calgary went down early, but they got penalties because the Sharks were being lazy with their sticks. It happens when teams are chasing games.
The fact of the matter is that the refs aren't costing the Sharks games - just like they didn't cost Vegas in Game 7 last year. Sharks PK was just not good enough.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Yes, Calgary went down early, but they got penalties because the Sharks were being lazy with their sticks. It happens when teams are chasing games.
The fact of the matter is that the refs aren't costing the Sharks games - just like they didn't cost Vegas in Game 7 last year. Sharks PK was just not good enough.

I don't think anyone's saying that it's costing the Sharks games. They are still the top PK in the league.

 

[Anomie2029]

I don't think anyone's saying that it's costing the Sharks games. They are still the top PK in the league.

There have been plenty of Sharks fans (not just on this forum) that have decried the officials as a significant reason for the team's performance this season. There is nothing egregious that has warranted these conspiracies. The officials (on and off ice) have always ignored dangerous hits unless there is an injury - just ask Canucks fans. In fact, we could even look at the last few seasons with the Sharks! The decline in PP-PK ratio of the Sharks correlates to their drop in performance.

Officials need to be better - but it's not uniquely affecting the Sharks more than any other NHL team.

 

[Nth Turtle Reborn]

I get the desire to play Devil's advocate when officiating is being complained about, but y'all are white knighting these refs & the DOPS

Refs screwed up in the playoffs, multiple times, many teams were victimised, but as the Sharks were perceived as benefitting from some of their worst mistakes we're witnessing the worst case of blatant bias against us.

Just look to last post season's series threads, how much venom & vitriol cast our way, despite the Sharks having NOTHING to do with those bad calls.

Human nature, subconscious bias, call it what you will, but we're currently in the official's doghouse with no apparent way out, through no fault of our own.

Those defending this crap seem to think officials are some kind of fair & balanced, robotic dealers of justice, rather than the petty vindictive clowns they are.

They were on the receiving end of severe criticism, they have the means to dish out retribution & there is literally no higher authority to appeal to.

Anyone watching the way they treat Kane since the Chara headshot, lack of call, subsequent twitter mockery, claiming there's no vendetta... I don't know what to tell you, since your mind is closed to the possibility they are bending us over every opportunity they get.

Must be nice living in your perfect world where everything is fine & dandy.

Vent over & breathe...

 

[Used As A Shield]

Sharks sure have shown their displeasure with the reffing a lot lately. From Vlasics verbal altercations early on, Kane's blind mice tweets, this stuff with Noeson, etc. it sure is more than I can recall of past teams, but knowing Clowe I bet there was times I just don't remember.

 

[Pavelski2112]

There have been plenty of Sharks fans (not just on this forum) that have decried the officials as a significant reason for the team's performance this season. There is nothing egregious that has warranted these conspiracies. The officials (on and off ice) have always ignored dangerous hits unless there is an injury - just ask Canucks fans. In fact, we could even look at the last few seasons with the Sharks! The decline in PP-PK ratio of the Sharks correlates to their drop in performance.

Officials need to be better - but it's not uniquely affecting the Sharks more than any other NHL team.

I'm one of those guys who think the league is acting against the Sharks actively, I just think it's not working because the Sharks are good on the PK. The Sharks are often better with a man down.

And again, I don't think the league is trying to punish the Sharks; I just think they're trying to look like they're not favoring the Sharks, by going too far in the opposite direction.

 

[NWSharkie]

Can't it be both/a combination of factors? The Sharks have been playing from behind, their D-zone coverage has been garbage, and they've been taking a bunch of stupid stick foul/holding penalties as a result. They're not going to get the benefit of the doubt on borderline stuff because they're committing the obvious stuff, and that seems reasonable.

Where I do have an issue with it, though, is that they're not getting the calls on more dangerous player safety-type plays. That to me is a problem because if you call nothing else, call the ones that affect the score and the ones that could get somebody hurt. And I think at least some of that is because of the fallout from last year's playoffs.


...or they just suck all around. Is interference still in the rule book?

 

[Pavelski2112]

Can't it be both/a combination of factors? The Sharks have been playing from behind, their D-zone coverage has been garbage, and they've been taking a bunch of stupid stick foul/holding penalties as a result. They're not going to get the benefit of the doubt on borderline stuff because they're committing the obvious stuff, and that seems reasonable.

Where I do have an issue with it, though, is that they're not getting the calls on more dangerous player safety-type plays. That to me is a problem because if you call nothing else, call the ones that affect the score and the ones that could get somebody hurt. And I think at least some of that is because of the fallout from last year's playoffs.


...or they just suck all around. Is interference still in the rule book?

This is probably the best take. Yes, the Sharks are absolutely playing lazier and in doing so, taking a lot of penalties that they do absolutely deserve.

The problem is when the Sharks get called for ticky-tack shit all game, and then someone runs one of our players up high and doesn't get even get a call, much less a suspension. Hell, someone pointed out recently that since Parros took over, not a single player has been suspended for a play against the Sharks.