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Pre-Game Talk: Isles @ Leafs

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Tall Morty

Tall Morty

Visualize the action to actualize the vision
Apr 18, 2017
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NEED LEAFS HOCKEY.

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Nithoniniel

Nithoniniel

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Sep 7, 2012
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So, Leivo is 7th in the league in primary points/60 over the last two years, more or less tied with McDavid and Matthews, but sure, he doesn't ever score. Totally carried by Matt Martin, with a worse linemate he'd probably not even be top 20.

Some of us might have pumped Leivo too much. That the sample size is small enough for quite a regression was always a chance. (Though, even if he had a substantial regression, his point production, shot metrics, and micro stats would all still point towards him being a mid six player already.)

Anyway. It really seems to me that there's some counter-reaction to that, because I have no idea why people would otherwise go to such lengths to discredit him and what he does. To recap. He plays highly irregularly with limited ice time, mostly with extremely limited linemates, and he produces primary points at a top 10 rate in the league over the last two years, with every single metric painting him in a favorable light. Yet there are so many who want to claim he does absolutely nothing with what chance he's given.

It's just absurd. I can't remember another case where a prospect comes up and does that well compared to opportunity given, and has a large portion of the fanbase seemingly rooting against him.
 
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Blanche Blanche

Blanche Blanche

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Dec 2, 2017
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Nithoniniel said:
So, Leivo is 7th in the league in primary points/60 over the last two years, more or less tied with McDavid and Matthews, but sure, he doesn't ever score. Totally carried by Matt Martin, with a worse linemate he'd probably not even be top 20.

Some of us might have pumped Leivo too much. That the sample size is small enough for quite a regression was always a chance. (Though, even if he had a substantial regression, his point production, shot metrics, and micro stats would all still point towards him being a mid six player already.)

Anyway. It really seems to me that there's some counter-reaction to that, because I have no idea why people would otherwise go to such lengths to discredit him and what he does. To recap. He plays highly irregularly with limited ice time, mostly with extremely limited linemates, and he produces primary points at a top 10 rate in the league over the last two years, with every single metric painting him in a favorable light. Yet there are so many who want to claim he does absolutely nothing with what chance he's given.

It's just absurd. I can't remember another case where a prospect comes up and does that well compared to opportunity given, and has a large portion of the fanbase seemingly rooting against him.
Click to expand...

Lol good thing leafs brass knows better and signed him
 
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Liminality

Liminality

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Oct 22, 2008
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Nithoniniel said:
It's just absurd. I can't remember another case where a prospect comes up and does that well compared to opportunity given, and has a large portion of the fanbase seemingly rooting against him.
Click to expand...

Jeremy Williams comes to mind.
Had good AHL numbers, was called up 4 times.

2005-06 1gp 1g
2006-07 1gp 1g
2007-08 18gp 2g
2008-09 11gp 5g 2a

Sent back to the AHL and then went over to the Rangers, couldn't make it there so he went to Europe.
Man he had a wicked shot didn't he?
 
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Critical13

Critical13

Fear is the mind-killer.
Feb 25, 2017
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Nithoniniel said:
So, Leivo is 7th in the league in primary points/60 over the last two years, more or less tied with McDavid and Matthews, but sure, he doesn't ever score. Totally carried by Matt Martin, with a worse linemate he'd probably not even be top 20.

Some of us might have pumped Leivo too much. That the sample size is small enough for quite a regression was always a chance. (Though, even if he had a substantial regression, his point production, shot metrics, and micro stats would all still point towards him being a mid six player already.)

Anyway. It really seems to me that there's some counter-reaction to that, because I have no idea why people would otherwise go to such lengths to discredit him and what he does. To recap. He plays highly irregularly with limited ice time, mostly with extremely limited linemates, and he produces primary points at a top 10 rate in the league over the last two years, with every single metric painting him in a favorable light. Yet there are so many who want to claim he does absolutely nothing with what chance he's given.

It's just absurd. I can't remember another case where a prospect comes up and does that well compared to opportunity given, and has a large portion of the fanbase seemingly rooting against him.
Click to expand...

Those stats are heavily buoyed by a small sample size and a couple of big nights. Comparing his p/60 to McDavid and Matthews is only absurd thing I'm seeing. Leivo hasn't done enough to steal someone's spot.
 
ACC1224

ACC1224

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I keep thinking this is the PGT when I open it, title needs to change.
 
Gary Nylund

Gary Nylund

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Nithoniniel said:
So, Leivo is 7th in the league in primary points/60 over the last two years, more or less tied with McDavid and Matthews, but sure, he doesn't ever score. Totally carried by Matt Martin, with a worse linemate he'd probably not even be top 20.

Some of us might have pumped Leivo too much. That the sample size is small enough for quite a regression was always a chance. (Though, even if he had a substantial regression, his point production, shot metrics, and micro stats would all still point towards him being a mid six player already.)

Anyway. It really seems to me that there's some counter-reaction to that, because I have no idea why people would otherwise go to such lengths to discredit him and what he does. To recap. He plays highly irregularly with limited ice time, mostly with extremely limited linemates, and he produces primary points at a top 10 rate in the league over the last two years, with every single metric painting him in a favorable light. Yet there are so many who want to claim he does absolutely nothing with what chance he's given.

It's just absurd. I can't remember another case where a prospect comes up and does that well compared to opportunity given, and has a large portion of the fanbase seemingly rooting against him.
Click to expand...

Holy moley, that is so cool. I had no idea.

Critical said:
Those stats are heavily buoyed by a small sample size and a couple of big nights. Comparing his p/60 to McDavid and Matthews is only absurd thing I'm seeing. Leivo hasn't done enough to steal someone's spot.
Click to expand...

He did say the sample size is small and that "some of us might have pumped Leivo too much" so what's your issue exactly? Not sure what's wrong with giving us the numbers and it's true, he has gotten nowhere near the credit he deserves from a huge portion of this fanbase.
 
ACC1224

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
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I guess we'll see the Isles Backup tonight?
Are Reilly and Zaitsev expected to play? Martin still sitting?
Looking forward to this one, feels like I haven't been to a game in a while.
 
Macallan18

Macallan18

Registered User
Aug 10, 2015
9,732
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Nithoniniel said:
So, Leivo is 7th in the league in primary points/60 over the last two years, more or less tied with McDavid and Matthews, but sure, he doesn't ever score. Totally carried by Matt Martin, with a worse linemate he'd probably not even be top 20.

Some of us might have pumped Leivo too much. That the sample size is small enough for quite a regression was always a chance. (Though, even if he had a substantial regression, his point production, shot metrics, and micro stats would all still point towards him being a mid six player already.)

Anyway. It really seems to me that there's some counter-reaction to that, because I have no idea why people would otherwise go to such lengths to discredit him and what he does. To recap. He plays highly irregularly with limited ice time, mostly with extremely limited linemates, and he produces primary points at a top 10 rate in the league over the last two years, with every single metric painting him in a favorable light. Yet there are so many who want to claim he does absolutely nothing with what chance he's given.

It's just absurd. I can't remember another case where a prospect comes up and does that well compared to opportunity given, and has a large portion of the fanbase seemingly rooting against him.
Click to expand...

Well, perhaps the fanbase rooting against him are Babcock's "can do no wrong" fans, and it is his decision not to play Leivo. If in fact Leivo is a very good hockey player being stupidly benched by a coach with myopia, that seriously affects the infalability of Babcock, so the fanbase has to tear Leivo down to make him fit the narrative.
Don't get me wrong, I know Babcock can coach, but his player selection (Martin, Polak Kommy with Kadri, not playing Dermott and Leivo and Kappy) is just depressing.
 
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