Islanders are 9-0 in OT/SO

[The Macho King]

But those shootouts can get you a much higher seeding in the playoffs

Okay? What does that have to do with anything? Shootouts aren't hockey. 4-4 also isn't a great indicator - OT in the playoffs is 5-5, so in my mind success in regulation is far more indicative of success in the playoffs.

 

[Brunomics]

Like I said, despite the advantage in shootout player %s and the fact that the Devils have won 1 out of their last 20? shootouts, it was still tied after 3 rounds and the Devils still had I believe 2 tries to win it and Halak made the save. Props to Halak but he could've easily allowed a goal there. He didn't, and the Isles have gotten the big saves in the shootout all year, but you can't count on that happening. It can easily go the other way..

You can't go into a season, build a team and expect to be 6-0 in shootouts in mid december. You have good shootout players, but you can't see that you need some good fortune for it to go your way every time?

How did Brian Boucher and the Flyers win that season ending shootut against the Rangers in 2010? Boucher vs Lundqvist, how did the Rangers ever lose?

Probably because Olli Jokinen pulled one of the crappiest moves in the shootout I've ever seen?

 

[IslesFanatic]

Okay? What does that have to do with anything? Shootouts aren't hockey. 4-4 also isn't a great indicator - OT in the playoffs is 5-5, so in my mind success in regulation is far more indicative of success in the playoffs.

Take away the SO wins and isles are still 15-10-6 giving them all losses in the SO. Still in pretty good shape with 36 pts.

 

[Felix Unger]

Okay? What does that have to do with anything? Shootouts aren't hockey. 4-4 also isn't a great indicator - OT in the playoffs is 5-5, so in my mind success in regulation is far more indicative of success in the playoffs.

Not having to play Pittsburgh or Tampa Bay + home ice in the first round is more indicative of success in at least that round. Honestly, to be a NYI fan and think past that is presumptuous. Fair?

 

[RoseTintedVisor]

I'm going to address some nonsense I'm tired of seeing in these threads.

The Isles currently have five+ guys with top tier shootout moves, including the highest scoring shootout player in NHL HISTORY. Their goalie is no longer a cripple with an eternal contract or an old man. Hence shootout wins.

As far as Historic Context:

The New York Islanders are 2nd(!) all time in NHL history in shootout win percentage.

They have had a LITTANY of guys who could light the lamp in the skills competition since it was created. Look at this list:

Nielsen (There is nobody better in NHL history)
Okposo
Bailey
Tavares
Vanek
Moulson
Parenteau
Blake
Kozlov (Punched their ticket to the playoffs with a shootout winner!)
Satan
Tambellini

ALL 30% or better in the shootout. Stop saying 'It's a coin toss'. It's not a ****ing coin toss. It's gimmicky, it's stupid, and it's not remotely real hockey, but it's not a ****ing coin toss.

They've had the shootout for NINE YEARS now, and the Isles have been good at it for the entirety of that time. That's not a coin toss. If you have guys in your allotment of dressed skaters who are good at the shootout, you will win shootouts. This **** ain't hard.

Yes, this won't help you in the playoffs, but I'd like my team to take advantage of EVERY POSSIBLE POINT THEY CAN to get to the playoffs then dismiss it as some organizations do as Irrelevant. Get the points.


Lastly:

The shootout is garbage and not real hockey. I understand, respect, and agree with that!

However, the dismissal of 4 on 4 OT seems like sour grapes to me. I guess any goals scored during a 4 on 4 in regulation should count less?

C'mon people. Explain that hatred to me.

thank you for bearing with me during my indignation. My team is finally GOOD (for the first time since 2002!) and people just can't accept or admit that.

 

[Hire Sather]

Sorry, but I think the problem here is your understanding of probability. Let me clarify:

(i) NYI are probably winning a larger percentage of shootouts than they would in a large sample.

(ii) Even in a large sample, NYI would win significantly more than 50% of all shootouts.

How much more? Who can say? I'd guess around 60-65%

Hard to believe this is controversial.

I'm not really talking about probability at all, all i'm trying to say is it takes good fortune to keep pulling these out over and over no matter how good the Islanders players shootout percentages are.

To be honest, if the Islanders individual shootout stats are so much better than other teams, shouldn't that 60% number be higher?

 

[IslesFanatic]

I'm not really talking about probability at all, all i'm trying to say is it takes good fortune to keep pulling these out over and over no matter how good the Islanders players shootout percentages are.

To be honest, if the Islanders individual shootout stats are so much better than other teams, shouldn't that 60% number be higher?

It does take good fortune. But, the isles also have players who are excellent in the SO which increases their chances of winning.

 

[RoseTintedVisor]

I'm not really talking about probability at all, all i'm trying to say is it takes good fortune to keep pulling these out over and over no matter how good the Islanders players shootout percentages are.

To be honest, if the Islanders individual shootout stats are so much better than other teams, shouldn't that 60% number be higher?

Well, ****, The Penguins have amazing stats, shouldn't their winning percentage be higher?

60% is an amazing shootout winning percentage all time, considering the Islanders had sock puppets for goaltenders for half of the shootouts existence.

 

[DanZ]

Detroit are first in the Atlantic thanks to 7 pts awarded while losing the game. (they would be at 4th place without those pts). Does that make them overrated ?

It doesn't matter.

You could also say their record isn't inflated by shootout wins

 

[Felix Unger]

I'm not really talking about probability at all, all i'm trying to say is it takes good fortune to keep pulling these out over and over no matter how good the Islanders players shootout percentages are.

Well, fine. As long as you're clear that you've completely backed off your previously expressed position, we're all good.

 

[The Macho King]

Not having to play Pittsburgh or Tampa Bay + home ice in the first round is more indicative of success in at least that round. Honestly, to be a NYI fan and think past that is presumptuous. Fair?

Fair enough.

 

[RoseTintedVisor]

You could also say their record isn't inflated by shootout wins

BUT IT'S INFLATED BY LOSER POINTS.

What if this were 1982, with that point system? Huh? How would the standings look then?

 

[Barzaltrick]

You could also say their record isn't inflated by shootout wins

You could also say their point total is inflated by shootout loses.

 

[Nolanitis]

Not having to play Pittsburgh or Tampa Bay + home ice in the first round is more indicative of success in at least that round. Honestly, to be a NYI fan and think past that is presumptuous. Fair?

Fair enough.

That is kind of what i am alluding too. The higher seed gets them a better chance of succeeding.

And those of you proving your points that the Isles are not really playing in a playoff atmosphere in overtime point taken. But nobody is proving that they cannot win those types of games either. A So win is better than a SO loss, OT ditto.

 

[PenguinMario]

Their record in OT doesn't surprise me. It's a young, fast team that would thrive with some open ice. SO is probably because they have some good SO specialists (Nielsen especially), but I never put much stock in being a good shootout team - you don't get shootouts in the playoffs.

And in general, being a good one-goal team (regulation, overtime, or shootout) doesn't seem to be very predictive of success.

I ran the numbers on last season very quickly, and the correlation (r-squared) between overall point percentage and percentage in close games was .37, which is positive but pretty mild. For the overall percentage and percentage in blowouts, it was a strong .69. Close games seem more indicative of randomness than overall team quality (or buzzwords like "grit" and "clutch").

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Like I said, despite the advantage in shootout player %s and the fact that the Devils have won 1 out of their last 20? shootouts, it was still tied after 3 rounds and the Devils still had I believe 2 tries to win it and Halak made the save. Props to Halak but he could've easily allowed a goal there. He didn't, and the Isles have gotten the big saves in the shootout all year, but you can't count on that happening. It can easily go the other way..

You can't go into a season, build a team and expect to be 6-0 in shootouts in mid december. You have good shootout players, but you can't see that you need some good fortune for it to go your way every time?

How did Brian Boucher and the Flyers win that season ending shootut against the Rangers in 2010? Boucher vs Lundqvist, how did the Rangers ever lose?

I just don't equate luck. Frans either didn't get enough on his shot, his angle correctly or should have gone backhand. Tavares tried to beat a 6'3 goalie going wide. Strome didn't get everything on his shot. Those are skills and mental decisions, not luck. Same for the Devils players who beat Halak but couldn't lift it.

Do I expect to go undefeated? Hell no. But I don't think luck has anything concrete to do with it unless it's a roller into the net. These guys for the most part know what their doing and I don't think Frans's greatness has anything to do with luck so much as it's excellent execution.

The term 'coin flip' should rarely be used for the shootout.

Isles we're 5-0 and Hawks were 4-0 the other day and they played. Isles won in regulation but if they went to the shootout I think it would be appropriate to say given it's a strength for both teams and they are both undefeated.

Their record in OT doesn't surprise me. It's a young, fast team that would thrive with some open ice. SO is probably because they have some good SO specialists (Nielsen especially), but I never put much stock in being a good shootout team - you don't get shootouts in the playoffs.

Tavares and the Devils dman got into a scuffle and the Isles *Strome especially* just dominated the Devils 4 on 4. Fun time.

But I put stock into the shootout. Rangers and Flyers were mentioned in 2010 here. Isles vs Devils back in 07', Isles win and there in. Speaking of the Devils, if they were better a year ago they'd be in the playoffs I think.

And if we are in the playoffs, there's a possibility we have home ice advantage because of the shootout wins.

 

[Brooklanders*]

Yeah, but the real question is if this is the positive or negative Isles thread Not like the others and puts some things into the perspective btw..

No you actually haven't watched this team play. That's what it means to mean. They are well coached.
They have the passion and play as a team. They have had solid goaltending and the defense is coming along.
They have beaten very good teams and have out shot the opponents by leaps and bounds.
Shootouts aren't a given and since the Isles are pretty good at them its smart strategy to play it safe in the third period and OT.

 

[Felix Unger]

No you actually haven't watched this team play. That's what it means to mean. They are well coached.
They have the passion and play as a team. They have had solid goaltending and the defense is coming along.
They have beaten very good teams and have out shot the opponents by leaps and bounds.
Shootouts aren't a given and since the Isles are pretty good at them its smart strategy to play it safe in the third period and OT.

Except for the PK, which is atrocious. Really, it is that bad.

 

[Isles5513]

They do have better advanced stats than the Rangers that would indicate they have actually been playing well while the Rangers have not been.

Then again the rangers had some pretty significant injuries and a lot of lineup juggling to start this season

That is true about injuries, but that happens to everyone. The Isles have been missing their two best RHD, and arguably their best 2 D in general. Plus we have missed our best PK forward for most of the season so far. Not trying to downplay anyone though.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Must be ****ing nice to win a shootout.

Well atleast your goaltending is good in regulation and OT. Some teams can't even say that

 

[Butch 19]

That´s really amazing. Maybe they have a shot at some history here? (Some examples?!)

On the negative note, there are no shootouts and there is also no 4vs4 OT format applied in the POs. That´s why you have to look at their regulation records here. They have only 12 wins, 10 losses and 9 ties after 60 minutes, which is pretty average and probably makes them a bit overranked in the standings now.

They'll probably just try harder to win PO games in regulation or OT.

That's what I would do.

 

[zeke]

on defense, they have SIX #3s
.

that's a pretty big stretch.

especially in regards to hickey and dehaan, and probably to an old and battered visnovsky as well.

 

[zeke]

no reason not to give them full credit for OT goals, but its true that while shootouts matter they don't actually tell you anything about the quality of a team.

standings with all shootouts counted as ties:

1. PIT 115pt pace (+27gdiff)
2. DET 106 (+17)
3. TBL 103 (+23)
4. TOR 101 (+17)
5. NYI 95 (+4)
6. MTL 95 (+1)
7. NYR 91 (+10)
8. WSH 91 (+7)
9. FLA 88 (-8)
10. BOS 82 (-3)
11. OTT 82 (-6)
12. PHI 76 (-4)

that's probably a better representation of how the teams have played so far.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Can you share some of your shootout points with the Wings?

 

[redbull]

that's a pretty big stretch.

especially in regards to hickey and dehaan, and probably to an old and battered visnovsky as well.

you picked (arguably) the two best ones. I'm not kidding.

Visnovsky, when healthy, is just as good, but I'd say deHaan and Hickey (along with Leddy) have been the best defensemen all season, probably the past two years.

Leddy came in with SOME chicago/cup pedigree and has also been excellent, above my expectations.....but deHaan had a breakthrough rookie year last year and has picked up where he left off, after being hurt to start the year.

Hickey's the best kept secret. He's a Leddy clone who might be even better defensively.

I rank them all equally, they are all clones. Hickey-Visnovsky-Leddy-deHaan are the same. Boychuk and Hamonic are very similar as well.

Reminds me a bit of the old Leafs defense - Ellett, Rouse, Lefebvre, Gill, Macoun, Mironov. All very good where the sum was greater than the parts.