Islanders 2018/19 Prospect Rankings - #2

[Frankie41987]

As an English teacher I assure you I know what "consensus" means. Consensus does mean a majority or a general agreement. I'd argue that if at least 10/31 teams didn't take Wahlstrom/Dobson top ten (fact), it's a stretch to say they weren't a consensus top ten pick because we don't know what the rest of the league would have done so it's impossible to judge what the majority of teams thought, but we do know that among 10 teams there was not a general agreement that they were top 10 worthy.

Where players were ultimately drafted tells us a lot less information about how they were valued than you think. For all we know buffalo, Carolina and Montreal all could have had Wahlstrom as number 4 on their list. Even Edmonton who picked 10th could have had Dobson and Wahlstrom in their top 10 but if Bouchard was a spot higher than he is their pick. Going 11th overall is not the same as being ranked 11th overall by every team in the top 10. Nearly every talent evaluator that we as the public have access too had Wahlstrom and Dobson in the top ten, that’s consensus.

 

[Riseonfire]

Personally think it will go:

Whalstrom
Dobson
Sorokin
Ho-Sang
Bellows

as our firm top 5.

 

[ScaredStreit]

I’m really struggling to understand your reasoning here. Both Wahlstrom and Dobson were projected to go top 10 by just about every mock draft that was put out there, from amateur mocks to analysts. The only reason why they didn’t is because there were a couple off the board picks, just like what happened when we got Barzal.

Right which is why there was not a top ten consensus among the people who counted (the teams drafting). Whatever amateur mock drafts or analysts might predict is irrelevant to that statement.

 

[Frankie41987]

Right which is why there was not a top ten consensus among the people who counted (the teams drafting). Whatever amateur mock drafts or analysts might predict is irrelevant to that statement.

You don’t know that though. You only know they werent picked by the teams in their respective spots. You have no idea how any of those teams had the players ranked. Mathematically, every team in the top ten could have had Wahlstrom and Dobson ranked 2 and 3, but the player they had ranked 1 was available so they didn’t pick them.

 

[crashthenet]

Dobber add Skarek.

 

[xIsle]

I touched on it in my last post. Bellows is a project? Cannot agree with that assessment at all. He was buried at BU playing on the 3rd line and on RW at times.

If he was so good (and I think Bellows is a good prospect, don't misunderstand me), he would not have been buried in the 3rd line. Unless you suggest it's the coach at BU who didnt know what he was doing...

 

[blinkman360]

Sorokin, add MDC

 

[MattMartin]

What about him?

So he wasn't worth a top 15 pick per the teams that passed on him. The same case you're making for Wahlstrom/Dobson not going top 10. So either they know more or they don't, which is it?

 

[WangMustGo]

Dobson is our best prospect IMO. He has a great 2 way game, strong skater, big frame that is filling out, smart player. He will be the #1 defenseman we have been looking for since Potvin.

 

[PWJunior]

Dobson is our best prospect IMO. He has a great 2 way game, strong skater, big frame that is filling out, smart player. He will be the #1 defenseman we have been looking for since Potvin.

I haven't been this excited about a drafted d-man since Redden/Berard and Brewer. Thankfully, Dobson will be developed under the watchful eyes of Lou and Trotz.

 

[SI90]

Personally think it will go:

Whalstrom
Dobson
Sorokin
Ho-Sang
Bellows

as our firm top 5.

Agreed that’s the top5 and that’s a damn good top5.

The way I look at is Dobson and Wahlstrom are 1a 1b And Sorokin is #3 and JHS and Bellows are The next 2 in any order.

 

[ScaredStreit]

So he wasn't worth a top 15 pick per the teams that passed on him. The same case you're making for Wahlstrom/Dobson not going top 10. So either they know more or they don't, which is it?

I never said that he or Wahlstrom/Dobson or Barzal weren't worthy of their picks, I said that they apparently weren't the consensus top ten players of NHL teams. Perhaps you could argue Dobson and/or Wahlstrom were, but Barzal definitely wasn't.

NHL teams viewed St. Louis as a consensus player not worthy of being drafted in the 11th round...that doesn't mean they were smart to not draft him.

 

[saintunspecified]

I touched on it in my last post. Bellows is a project? Cannot agree with that assessment at all. He was buried at BU playing on the 3rd line and on RW at times.

Cal clutterbuck is agile in comparison.

 

[Jester9881]

If he was so good (and I think Bellows is a good prospect, don't misunderstand me), he would not have been buried in the 3rd line. Unless you suggest it's the coach at BU who didnt know what he was doing...

So he put up great #'s in the USHL, USDP and U18s. Went to BU the following season where he was put on the 3rd line and didn't produce. Then was great again after leaving BU to play for the Winterhawks and broke a record for goal scoring in the U20s.

This shouldn't be hard to add up

Cal clutterbuck is agile in comparison.

Clutterbuck is more agile than Anders Lee. Is Anders Lee a project? Is Cal Clutterbuck better than Anders Lee?

 

[YearlyLottery]

I never said that he or Wahlstrom/Dobson or Barzal weren't worthy of their picks, I said that they apparently weren't the consensus top ten players of NHL teams. Perhaps you could argue Dobson and/or Wahlstrom were, but Barzal definitely wasn't.

NHL teams viewed St. Louis as a consensus player not worthy of being drafted in the 11th round...that doesn't mean they were smart to not draft him.

We should all thank our lucky stars that Barzal not only got hurt in his draft year but made a smart ass comment towards Boston (potentially) who had three picks in a row there.

 

[LordNeverLose]

We should all thank our lucky stars that Barzal not only got hurt in his draft year but made a smart ass comment towards Boston (potentially) who had three picks in a row there.

Christ imagine this team if he doesn't decide to horse around in the locker room that day

 

[xIsle]

So he put up great #'s in the USHL, USDP and U18s. Went to BU the following season where he was put on the 3rd line and didn't produce. Then was great again after leaving BU to play for the Winterhawks and broke a record for goal scoring in the U20s.

This shouldn't be hard to add up

And? What does it change? You never seen a player who knows a bad season (here, a player who has difficulty adjusting to the NCAA) and who bounces the next? (where he can focus only on hockey in the WHL). It's not a revolutionary concept! This is common among many hockey players. I am convinced that if he was "buried" as you say in the 3rd line is that he did not play well that season. Especially when looking at BU's lineup that season, we realize there was room available in the top six and he probably did not know how to grab his chance and the coach probably rotated to fill this position. Keller and Harper, who were the same age as Bellows, played all season in the top six, so it was not a question of seniority.

 

[islesfan3913]

And? What does it change? You never seen a player who knows a bad season (here, a player who has difficulty adjusting to the NCAA) and who bounces the next? (where he can focus only on hockey in the WHL). It's not a revolutionary concept! This is common among many hockey players. I am convinced that if he was "buried" as you say in the 3rd line is that he did not play well that season. Especially when looking at BU's lineup that season, we realize there was room available in the top six and he probably did not know how to grab his chance and the coach probably rotated to fill this position. Keller and Harper, who were the same age as Bellows, played all season in the top six, so it was not a question of seniority.

No offense, but I think you need to pay more attention to these guys if you’re making posts like this. Bellows was on a stacked team at BU which means there was less opportunity to have the puck on his stick. Play was driven and carried by guys like Keller, Harper, Greenway, McAvoy and Fabbro, not Bellows. Even guys like Karlsson and Carpenter were playing up in the lineup since they were playing for a second season. Those seven players also happen to be seven of the eight players who out scored Bellows. He certainty didn’t play phenomenal, but he also didn’t have a great chance at succeeding at BU. In Portland, he was given a legit shot and ran with it, and finally showed what he’s capable of. If he was given that chance and didn’t succeed then it’d be a problem, but he put down most thoughts about him being a bust.

 

[PWJunior]

No offense, but I think you need to pay more attention to these guys if you’re making posts like this. Bellows was on a stacked team at BU which means there was less opportunity to have the puck on his stick. Play was driven and carried by guys like Keller, Harper, Greenway, McAvoy and Fabbro, not Bellows. Even guys like Karlsson and Carpenter were playing up in the lineup since they were playing for a second season. Those seven players also happen to be seven of the eight players who out scored Bellows. He certainty didn’t play phenomenal, but he also didn’t have a great chance at succeeding at BU. In Portland, he was given a legit shot and ran with it, and finally showed what he’s capable of. If he was given that chance and didn’t succeed then it’d be a problem, but he put down most thoughts about him being a bust.

I like that Bellows performed well at both the WJC's that he participated in.

 

[xIsle]

No offense, but I think you need to pay more attention to these guys if you’re making posts like this. Bellows was on a stacked team at BU which means there was less opportunity to have the puck on his stick. Play was driven and carried by guys like Keller, Harper, Greenway, McAvoy and Fabbro, not Bellows. Even guys like Karlsson and Carpenter were playing up in the lineup since they were playing for a second season. Those seven players also happen to be seven of the eight players who out scored Bellows. He certainty didn’t play phenomenal, but he also didn’t have a great chance at succeeding at BU. In Portland, he was given a legit shot and ran with it, and finally showed what he’s capable of. If he was given that chance and didn’t succeed then it’d be a problem, but he put down most thoughts about him being a bust.

All I'm saying is that we have to avoid a lame excuse to explain his tough NCAA season. I'm glad he bounced back. But will you stop me with your lame excuses? You are now naming some defensemen to show me that Bellows ice time was probably cut! WTF? And Bellows is not the type of player to drive the play, he is more of a finisher type. So indeed, he should have completed very well those who were driving the play. This was not the case.
And the excuse of the "stack team" is another nonsense. It was too much of a "stack team" for Bellows but not for Keller or Harper? And note well the lineup, there was room for him in the top six.

 

[islesfan3913]

I like that Bellows performed well at both the WJC's that he participated in.

Agreed. In the first one he ran into a somewhat similar problem to what he had in BU, where he was sort of seen as a secondary player. But he had a much bigger role in this past WJC and really took the bull by the horns.

I think Bellows is going to be someone who needs to be put into a position to succeed early on in his career if he’s going to have a ton of success. Hopefully the new management will realize this and won’t end up sticking him on the fourth line. He needs to be surrounded with solid players who can create room for him and get the puck to him

 

[Jester9881]

And? What does it change? You never seen a player who knows a bad season (here, a player who has difficulty adjusting to the NCAA) and who bounces the next? (where he can focus only on hockey in the WHL). It's not a revolutionary concept! This is common among many hockey players. I am convinced that if he was "buried" as you say in the 3rd line is that he did not play well that season. Especially when looking at BU's lineup that season, we realize there was room available in the top six and he probably did not know how to grab his chance and the coach probably rotated to fill this position. Keller and Harper, who were the same age as Bellows, played all season in the top six, so it was not a question of seniority.

If you don't know what you're talking about, and you clearly do not... you should probably stay in the backround.

 

[xIsle]

If you don't know what you're talking about, and you clearly do not... you should probably stay in the backround.

And that's all you can answer? It's very weak. Unable to give an intelligent answer. Instead of debating, you prefer to insult (I don't know what I'm talking about?! Haha ok!) All of this because I'm saying Bellows had a rough season in the NCAA! Some of you are really too sensitive. Don't worry Jester, Bellows will get over it!

 

[Jester9881]

And that's all you can answer? It's very weak. Unable to give an intelligent answer. Instead of debating, you prefer to insult (I don't know what I'm talking about?! Haha ok!) All of this because I'm saying Bellows had a rough season in the NCAA! Some of you are really too sensitive. Don't worry Jester, Bellows will get over it!

Sigh....

 

[Jester9881]

I don't debate with stupid. I just put stupid on ignore

Worth the infraction