Islanders 2018/19 Prospect Rankings - #2

[Wanderson]

1. Lol yeah they were consensus top 10 guys. Where they were drafted has nothing to do with what the lists said pre-draft.
2. I've always seen people overrate prospects already in the system since we're more familiar with them. I specifically remember both Barzal and Bellows going lower than I thought they should have in polls when they were the "shiny new toys"

Sorokin has been the best goalie outside of the NHL for many seasons in a row. He will be our starter if/when he decides to come over. Wahlström and Dobson has been playing awesome hockey - against kids. For me it’s easy to say who’s the best prospect at the moment.

 

[boredmale]

Sorokin has been the best goalie outside of the NHL for many seasons in a row. He will be our starter if/when he decides to come over. Wahlström and Dobson has been playing awesome hockey - against kids. For me it’s easy to say who’s the best prospect at the moment.

I know this is an extreme example but I am making a point, but would you consider some 20 year old who looks like he might make the NHL or is 1 year away a better prospect then a 15 year old Crosby?

 

[Wanderson]

1. He plays on a stacked team. He and Shestyorkin are good but there numbers get a huge boost from playing behind CSKA and SKA.
2. He won that gold in a tournament with no NHLers, where he only played one game and allowed 3 goals on 21 shots
3. He's a goalie. Do people not remember Poulin and Koskinen?

You can’t compare Koskinen with Sorokin. Sorokin is much better. Do you remember Dal Colle? If I remember correctly he was also voted as our best prospect (only based on upside). Much can happen when the kids start to play against men.

 

[Wanderson]

I know this is an extreme example but I am making a point, but would you consider some 20 year old who looks like he might make the NHL or is 1 year away a better prospect then a 15 year old Crosby?

If we’re talking about a future franchise goalie who is just one contract away from making the team, and a super talent who has proven nothing against men... then I would cast my vote on the goalie.

But maybe that’s just me... but I think many of you guys are sleeping on Sorokin.

 

[CodeE]

You can’t compare Koskinen with Sorokin. Sorokin is much better. Do you remember Dal Colle? If I remember correctly he was also voted as our best prospect (only based on upside). Much can happen when the kids start to play against men.

The flip of this is do you remember Jack Campbell? All the hype in the world, signs his ELC, hits the AHL and *poof* nothing. I love Sorokin and his upside as much as the next guy, but no goalie with 0 NHL experience is a guaranteed lock.

Plenty - not just a couple here and there but plenty - of mock drafts had Ottawa taking Dobson at #4 (to replace the eventual loss of EK) and Arizona taking Wahlstrom at #5 (which HFYotes badly wanted, but Chayka had other ideas). The general consensus this year was Dahlin, then Svech, then Zadina, then Tkachuk/Wahlstrom/Kota/Dobson/Hughes/Bouchard/Boqvist rounding out the top 10 and leaving us with two "after the drop off" (can't believe how many times I heard about the drop off before the Isles picks) Hayton+Smith at 11 + 12.

Of that "before the drop off" group, I swear to you, Dobson was my favorite guy of the pack. So many strengths to his game, so little weaknesses, Memorial Cup: but he'd never fall to the Islanders. With Wahlstrom, I just put him in the same category as Tkachuk and Zadina: extremely skilled, but we'd have to trade up to get him and my heart was set on one of those 4 defensemen falling to us.

The fact that both - both! - fell to us in such an prime position to add both F + D and spread out that depth - it's remarkable. Then Wilde - a guy tons of mocks had us reaching for at 12 "after the drop off" when we miss out on Dobson - somehow is still there at #41.

I assure you, it's not recency bias or falling in love with our shiniest, newest toys. Barrett Hayton & Ty Smith probably would have been easily behind Sorokin in that alternate universe. But Wahlstrom & Dobson both possess incredibly high ceilings, and it's not surprising in the least to see them go 1+2.

 

[Mavericknyc1980]

Dobson add Wotherspoon

 

[BelovedIsles]

Sorokin is number 3 for me. Franchise goalies are rare.

 

[ScaredStreit]

So then you must also admit that the same "people that matter the most" where dead wrong about Barzal. Works both ways.

I wasn't arguing that Wahlstrom and Dobson wont become top 10 in the draft class or that they were bad picks, I'm just saying that the notion that they were a consensus top 10 (and really higher) just isn't true because if that were the case they would have been drafted earlier.

 

[ScaredStreit]

I don't care if he's on a stacked team, he's supremely talented. He still has experienced winning a tremendous team feat (I value winners idc when or where or how). What does that have to do with him? Did Tavares being drafted have any impact on Strome? Did Reinhart have any impact on Pulock?

So would you say that Osgood was better than Luongo, or better than Hasek up until 01/02.

 

[MattMartin]

I wasn't arguing that Wahlstrom and Dobson wont become top 10 in the draft class or that they were bad picks, I'm just saying that the notion that they were a consensus top 10 (and really higher) just isn't true because if that were the case they would have been drafted earlier.

So what about Barzal?

 

[ScaredStreit]

So what about Barzal?

What about him?

 

[islesfan3913]

It's not the players that were picked.... it's the landslide they were picked in. There should be a consensus of the Islanders top 5 prospects (Bellows, Sorokin, Dobson, Wahlstrom, Ho-Sang) and any of them getting picked in any order in the top 5/6 isn't much of a surprise. But the new guys creaming the older guys who are much more proven at this point doesn't jive IMO.

It’s probably because a lot of people, including myself, see the top four or five as being in tiers. Dobson, Wahlstrom, Sorokin, Bellows and JHS might be our top five, but to me Dobson and Wahlstrom are in the first tier and Bellows and Sorokin are in one just below. It’s just a case of seeing them as more of a sure thing to be solid players and a higher chance of being elite. They also have higher floors than the next two and have less question marks.

 

[boredmale]

It’s probably because a lot of people, including myself, see the top four or five as being in tiers. Dobson, Wahlstrom, Sorokin, Bellows and JHS might be our top five, but to me Dobson and Wahlstrom are in the first tier and Bellows and Sorokin are in one just below. It’s just a case of seeing them as more of a sure thing to be solid players and a higher chance of being elite. They also have higher floors than the next two and have less question marks.

My 2 cents is I base it on trade value. I look at it as if I was going to trade one of these guys which player would most likely get us the most value back. In the case of Sorokin the questions of him coming here in the first place drop him but I also believe goalies in general have lesser value then forwards or defense

 

[LordNeverLose]

I wasn't arguing that Wahlstrom and Dobson wont become top 10 in the draft class or that they were bad picks, I'm just saying that the notion that they were a consensus top 10 (and really higher) just isn't true because if that were the case they would have been drafted earlier.

I don't wanna sound condescending, but I'm not sure you're getting what consensus means. It doesn't mean unanimous.

 

[steveat]

Aho He is top 5 nhl right now.

Add Golyshev

 

[Isles72]

Dobson add Rathgeb.

ditto

 

[ScaredStreit]

I don't wanna sound condescending, but I'm not sure you're getting what consensus means. It doesn't mean unanimous.

As an English teacher I assure you I know what "consensus" means. Consensus does mean a majority or a general agreement. I'd argue that if at least 10/31 teams didn't take Wahlstrom/Dobson top ten (fact), it's a stretch to say they weren't a consensus top ten pick because we don't know what the rest of the league would have done so it's impossible to judge what the majority of teams thought, but we do know that among 10 teams there was not a general agreement that they were top 10 worthy.

 

[leeroggy]

Toews is by far our most underappreciated prospect. I'm amazed that the new shiny toys are always assumed to be so much better.

 

[xIsle]

As an English teacher I assure you I know what "consensus" means. Consensus does mean a majority or a general agreement. I'd argue that if at least 10/31 teams didn't take Wahlstrom/Dobson top ten (fact), it's a stretch to say they weren't a consensus top ten pick because we don't know what the rest of the league would have done so it's impossible to judge what the majority of teams thought, but we do know that among 10 teams there was not a general agreement that they were top 10 worthy.

This is frankly anything and your point of view completely wrong. It's not because Dobson and Wahlstrom were not drafted in the top 10 that none of these teams had them in the top 10. You really have no idea. Hayton's choices by Arizona and to a certain extent Kotkaniemi's by Montreal have turned the tables on this top 10. It may be that there was only Arizona that had Hayton in the top 10 and no other club... I'll give you other examples: it may be that when the Blackhawks drafted Boqvist 8th (maybe they had him on their list in 5th place, for example, but it could well be that Wahlstrom or Dobson was next on their list), and we can do the same exercise for all teams. Sometime, it's a question of luck or chance. The same situation happen to Fowler in 2010, and we can probably add Forsberg in 2012. To read you, you seem to believe that the teams who drafted in front of us, all had the same top 10 with Dobson and Wahlstrom out of it, which is completely ridiculous!

 

[islesfan3913]

As an English teacher I assure you I know what "consensus" means. Consensus does mean a majority or a general agreement. I'd argue that if at least 10/31 teams didn't take Wahlstrom/Dobson top ten (fact), it's a stretch to say they weren't a consensus top ten pick because we don't know what the rest of the league would have done so it's impossible to judge what the majority of teams thought, but we do know that among 10 teams there was not a general agreement that they were top 10 worthy.

I’m really struggling to understand your reasoning here. Both Wahlstrom and Dobson were projected to go top 10 by just about every mock draft that was put out there, from amateur mocks to analysts. The only reason why they didn’t is because there were a couple off the board picks, just like what happened when we got Barzal.

 

[Frankie41987]

Sorokin has been the best goalie outside of the NHL for many seasons in a row. He will be our starter if/when he decides to come over. Wahlström and Dobson has been playing awesome hockey - against kids. For me it’s easy to say who’s the best prospect at the moment.

That definitely isn't true. He had an incredible season 2 years ago and then since then has finished 14th in the KHL in SV% and then this year finished as 10th overall. This year he didn't even have the best SV% on his own team. I think he is a phenomenal prospect, but I think it's a huge overstatement to say he is the best goaltender (let alone goaltending prospect) outside the NHL.

 

[saintunspecified]

Lots of recency bias going on here....

add Quenneville

Oh? Who's your choice then and why?

It's totally understandable to go sorokin here. I could see an argument for toews. Bellows is a project.

 

[saintunspecified]

Sorokin has been the best goalie outside of the NHL for many seasons in a row. He will be our starter if/when he decides to come over. Wahlström and Dobson has been playing awesome hockey - against kids. For me it’s easy to say who’s the best prospect at the moment.

I agree. If I were confident he will be an islander I'd put him first. But I'm not.

 

[Jester9881]

Oh? Who's your choice then and why?

It's totally understandable to go sorokin here. I could see an argument for toews. Bellows is a project.

I touched on it in my last post. Bellows is a project? Cannot agree with that assessment at all. He was buried at BU playing on the 3rd line and on RW at times.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

So would you say that Osgood was better than Luongo, or better than Hasek up until 01/02.

Don't be ridiculous. Malty isn't better than Stamkos..

But it is something I value when going through a players resume. One of the biggest things I liked about Leddy and Boychuk was their cup experience. It's a good quality to have. Sorokin has a long list of accomplishments, track record in the playoffs and won a gold medal even if he wasn't a big part. Even Judas gets credit for his medal even though he was pointless in 4 and hurt.

It's just a quality to appreciate.