Is Tuukka Rask a TOP 10 goalie in this league?

[tony d]

Yes he is, he's a top 5 goalie in the league if anything.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Look, did Rask have better D support last year? Absolutely. Does that have something to do with his stats this year? 100%

But there is this idea that last year Rask was playing behind some amazing defensive system and never faced a hard shot. The 2013-2014 Bruins were not the team they were before. They actually were much better offensively than defensively. Rask had, in my opinion, the most to do with their PT season of any player. Maybe Bergeron.

I might have overreacted to your post and I'm sorry if I did; but Rask's exceptional play was not a result of incredible defense.

I disagree, and the reason I disagree is because Chad Johnson put up some decent numbers and that is not because he is an exceptional goalie. It had to do with the team in front of him and Rask.

Most of the games I watched, and I watched about 30-35 games of theirs, he was never having to stand on his head most of the time. The defensive game was a big part in why his play was so good. It wasnt like he was Hasek in Buffalo and having to stand on his head every game. It wasnt like he was Varlamov in Colorado last year and the main reason the Avalanche were so good. He was a cog in the machine and was playing amazing thanks to a lot of help in front of him.

Look at the trouble Rask had against Montreal. When the Bruins are playing a faster team the defense collapses and Rask seems to not be able to steal the games. That is just how it looks to me.

 

[BreakingGood]

Now the problem with your theory is that you haven't taken age into account. You look at years in league but not so much age. Most of the top end goalies now began as starters late like Rinne, Rask and Lundqvist and previously by guys like Hasek.

Price OTOH began young like Fleury and DiPietro and previously by guys like Brodeur and Roy.

Not taking age into account skews stats towards those that entered the league at a more mature age.

1) okay, why was he at .905 in 2013?
2) I actually did deal with age. Goalies don't improve like other players. I posted two links in this thread already.

I don't remember saying that at all. I would say it is standard practice for a goalie to have consistency issues at a young age. You just don't usually find them worked out at the NHL level like Price did. Price does have world-breaking talent now that you say it. He just didn't have to head to match it until the last few seasons. No knock on him, montreal can be a crazy place to play.




I would have to question why Luongo and Schneider are ahead of Carey Price in term of value and or ability. There is no way that Luongo is worth more "value wise" then Carey Price. There is also no real strong arguement either way for who is better currently (both playing great).

For record's sake;

- One could also nitpick Schneider being ahead of Price on any hockey related list.

- One could also nitpick Rask's inclusion on the same list with this seasons play and his low average start per season numbers. (Please see my recent post saying Rask will be just fine boston fans).

The point is; you can leave or include Price on an arbitrary list as you like. It doesn't take away from the reality that he is near the top of every goalie statistic since 2011.

Well, for one, the only two goalie statistics that matter are save percentage and even strength save percentage, and he was .905 in 2013, and is .918 for his career, which for the hundredth time, is fine, but not elite. If his young bad head inconsistency whatever is the problem and not the random variance of save percentage numbers in small sample sizes, why was he .920 as a rookie? The numbers don't correlate to age in any strong way, they're random distributed and all hovering around his career average - like every goalie!

You can't really argue Schneider or Luongo aren't better than Price: they stop more pucks.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

1) okay, why was he at .905 in 2013?
2) I actually did deal with age. Goalies don't improve like other players. I posted two links in this thread already.



Well, for one, the only two goalie statistics that matter are save percentage and even strength save percentage, and he was .905 in 2013, and is .918 for his career, which for the hundredth time, is fine, but not elite. If his young bad head inconsistency whatever is the problem and not the random variance of save percentage numbers in small sample sizes, why was he .920 as a rookie? The numbers don't correlate to age in any strong way, they're random distributed and all hovering around his career average - like every goalie!

You can't really argue Schneider or Luongo aren't better than Price: they stop more pucks.

Lets take a look at the defensive group he has in front of him.

Sorry man, you have NO clue what you are talking about, at all.

 

[danisonfire]

1) okay, why was he at .905 in 2013?

This was during a shortened season, the numbers are heavily influenced by a few terrible games. If he has four or so strong starts in the second half of a normal length season; this .905 stat would suffer from less variance. You pointed out the fallacy of using small sample sizes last post.

Well, for one, the only two goalie statistics that matter are save percentage and even strength save percentage, and he was .905 in 2013, and is .918 for his career, which for the hundredth time, is fine, but not elite.

Well for one, you once again are missing context. Those are not the only two stats that matter.

Which team would you rather start in net for?

A team that gives up 30 shots a game from scoring areas, or;
A team that gives up 30 shots a game from the sideboards

It is not as simple as "two numbers mean everything".

If his young bad head inconsistency whatever is the problem and not the random variance of save percentage numbers in small sample sizes, why was he .920 as a rookie? The numbers don't correlate to age in any strong way, they're random distributed and all hovering around his career average - like every goalie!

During Carey Price's rookie season; Montreal was first in the eastern conference and playing well above their heads. naturally, his team dependant goalie stats were good dispite him being 20 years old.

Also; in what world is a 0.918 career save percentage low; when you add the fact he has been starting in the NHL since age 20? Since you deal with ages, you should understand this.

You can't really argue Schneider or Luongo aren't better than Price: they stop more pucks.

Over what sample size? I don't really want to insult Schneider, but saying he is better than Carey Price is a stretch.

For Luongo; I love him as a goalie and have no problem with people saying he is currently as good as Carey Price. What makes Price win out over Luongo from a value perspective, is age; and I don't think this is unreasonable.

 

[CanadienShark]

Absolutely, he is. He became overrated for a stretch, but he's still a top 5 goalie.

 

[CanadienShark]

1) okay, why was he at .905 in 2013?
2) I actually did deal with age. Goalies don't improve like other players. I posted two links in this thread already.



Well, for one, the only two goalie statistics that matter are save percentage and even strength save percentage, and he was .905 in 2013, and is .918 for his career, which for the hundredth time, is fine, but not elite. If his young bad head inconsistency whatever is the problem and not the random variance of save percentage numbers in small sample sizes, why was he .920 as a rookie? The numbers don't correlate to age in any strong way, they're random distributed and all hovering around his career average - like every goalie!

You can't really argue Schneider or Luongo aren't better than Price: they stop more pucks.

I'm sorry... you think Schneider or Luongo are better than Price?

There are very few guys in the league who have any potential claim to be better (Lundqvist, Rask, Rinne and Quick in no order).

 

[GAT0R]

Also, not enough respect for Jonathan Bernier.. It´s a guy who is consistently over .920 on a team that dresses Jake Gardiner, Cody Franson and company. Would Rask be able to do that? I mean, I don´t know, but current group of goalies is VERY BALANCED and it´s much closer than most people think here.

this is about Rask... not stupid Bernier getting enough credit.

 

[Lshap]

I'm looking at his entire career, which comes with .918 save percentage. Goalies don't really get better as they age. Here's a good thing about this idea - http://www.macleans.ca/authors/colby-cosh/why-goalies-cant-save-themselves/ and here's another good one http://hockey-graphs.com/2014/03/21/how-well-do-goalies-age-a-look-at-a-goalie-aging-curve/

And I hate to break it to you but save percentage is subject to a lot of variance and you're not better because your saves happened to come in May. Quick had a .911 save percentage in the playoffs last year, which is, ahem, not good. **** happens sometimes. Over the larger sample of his career, Jonathan Quick is an average-ish goalie, maybe a tick below.

I'm sorry, but your argument is terrible. You're saying Price isn't elite now because he wasn't elite seven years ago, at 20. You're pretending the distant past is equally relevant to the present. Your only 'evidence': Two lightweight op-ed articles, neither of which factor in goalie stats at age 20, which is when Price became a starter.

In the last five seasons, Price's SV% is above .920. Judging his performances from before then is irrelevant and poor analysis.

 

[Kojo]

He's still top 10 but he benefited from playing on a good team who was great at clearing the front of the net and defense to offense transition, which made him highly overrated on here. Now that his team struggle we can see his flaws.

 

[Seb]

There aren't many elite goalies in the NHL. Rask is one. Easily top 10.

 

[sheed36]

Do you honestly think Carey Price is sometimes a world beating goalie and sometimes he's not very good? It's variance. When he put up .905 seasons, he was having bad luck. The .927 season involves some good luck. His career is .918 guy, which is a tick above average and enough to make you glad he's young and you won't have to worry about a Raycroft year for a long time. And, it's good enough that he's fully capable of getting hot and winning the Cup on just about any above average team. What I'm saying isn't that Price isn't good, and that a "pretty good" goalie doesn't have value. I'm saying he's not Luongo, Rask, Rinne, Lundqvist, or Schneider, who are the real *star* goalies in the NHL.

So Rinne being a career .919 guy is considered by you to be a real *star* goalie in the NHL but Price being a career .918 is a tick above average? Rinne has had years of 0.911, 0.910 and 0.902 (In only 24 games last season though) in his 7 years in the NHL.

Anyway this thread is about Rask and yes he's without a doubt a top 10 goalie. He's likely ranked in most peoples top 5 with some probably having him 1st and others at 5 and others anywhere in between.

 

[Bee Sheriff]

He's still top 10 but he benefited from playing on a good team who was great at clearing the front of the net and defense to offense transition, which made him highly overrated on here. Now that his team struggle we can see his flaws.

Price, Quick, Rask, Lundqvist, and Rinne would all struggle behind a poor defense. One man can't do all the work, well unless his name is Dominik Hasek.

 

[Kitchener Boy]

How about that goalie the Bruins let go Michael Hutchinson now in Winnipeg.
His numbers are pretty impressive.

What's his cap hit peanuts?

 

[Bouboumaster]

Price, Quick, Rask, Lundqvist, and Rinne would all struggle behind a poor defense. One man can't do all the work, well unless his name is Dominik Hasek.

Price is playing with a piss poor D in front of him. After Subban and Markov, it's a black hole, man.

 

[AFTeRMaTH*]

Always thought he was overrated. So sick of people rating goalies basically by the defense in front of them. Honestly the majority of goalies in the league are so close to equal minus a very select few. People thought Rask was the greatest goalie ever, really anyone you put behind that defense and their forwards would be awesome. Johnson, Khudobin, and Svedberg. You guys think that the Bruins just have a bunch of all star goalies or something?!?!?!

 

[pitcher]

Sorry man, you have NO clue what you are talking about, at all.

ty for posting that, I was about to reply the exact same sentence to that guy...

 

[McPaul*]

Top 15 for sure.

Could you say the same thing about Thomas?