Is Toews deserving of the HHoF?

[Filthy Dangles]

Simple. I am not asking if you think he will get in. I am asking if you think he should get in. That is he's deserving of enshrinement with the best of the best.

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[Sidney the Kidney]

If he plays out the rest of his career as a 50 point player or less, then I don't think he should get in.

If he can rebound and return to his 65+ point, Selke form, then he'll probably have accomplished enough that I won't be too against it (though I do think the HoF should have higher standards, but that door has already been opened with some of the names in it now).

 

[Plural]

Hmmm...I'm not entirely opposed to the idea that HoF should induct more players who were unique/special in some other way than being at the top of their position. (All-Star, scoring finishes, voting record, etc.) I think Toews kind of falls between that elite category and special player category.

If he gets in (which he no doubt will) then I'd be open to include players like Esa Tikkanen for example. He was good player with unique style that will be remembered through history.

 

[Zamuz]

No.

 

[mouser]

A Conn Smythe, a Selke win with three more years as a finalist, and another three top 5 finishes. One 2nd team all-star.

All in all yeah, that's enough to get him in so long as he doesn't go completely off a cliff in his 30's.

 

[StoneHands]

No. Is there any other forward in the HoF who only broke 70 points once in their career other than Gainey?

 

[Icebreakers]

He's a lock imo. I think the hall of fame will look at a players impact on the game and their prime and not the entirety of the career. He was labeled as a top 3 player in the world in his prime. He's not a point producer. He was the best all around player.

 

[Binister]

Hall of Very Good.

Of course he is kind of an automatic addition to HHOF since NHL decided to name him a top 100 player of all time which was the biggest joke.

Would be very funny actually if doesn't get there first ballot or something like that.

 

[tony d]

I'd put him in. Chicago's glory days may be over (For this era) but Toews played a huge role in their resurgence and a key role on some Cup winners.

 

[Plural]

No. Is there any other forward in the HoF who only broke 70 points once in their career other than Gainey?

Probably a lot of older guys who played less games. But ever since the league has had 70+ games per season I would think not.

Edit. Actually Dick Duff never broke 60 points and only once 50.

 

[StoneHands]

Probably a lot of older guys who played less games. But ever since the league has had 70+ games per season I would think not.

Edit. Actually Dick Duff never broke 60 points and only once 50.

Duff also won 6 Cups in 7 years with two different teams and it took him 30+ years to get into the Hall.

It's really hard to compare players from the pre-expansion era to players today. It wasn't uncommon at all to see 10+ HoF players on the same team back then because there were only 6 teams. Now it's uncommon to see more than 2-3 HoF players on the same team.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Should, as in based on his merit, not his narrative right? I hate this 'He was an elite top 3/5/10 player for x amount of years'. He really wasn't. He was a top 10 FORWARD from 2010-11 to 2012-13. That's it. Dude has a very good playoff and international resume but the narrative took over and the talking heads ran with it. Go year by year and tell me with all honesty which years he was a top 10 PLAYER in the league. The answer is maybe 1 during the lockout shortened season. He's a good player and had a great career but the numbers don't lie.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

No. Never had a top 10 pts, goals or assist finish in a full season. Bring up whatever bs you want, but that's an absolute joke.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

No. Never had a top 10 pts, goals or assist finish in a full season. Bring up whatever bs you want, but that's an absolute joke.

He's only had 3 top 20 points finishes. Even with GOAT defence which is obviously overblown to some degree it doesn't get you into the elite category.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Captained an Original 6 team to three Stanley Cups, has won both a Selke and a Conn Smythe, and is a two time Olympic Gold medalist. All before the age of 30.

He'll be getting in.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Captained an Original 6 team to three Stanley Cups, has won both a Selke and a Conn Smythe, and is a two time Olympic Gold medalist. All before the age of 30.

He'll be getting in.

Some people are misreading/interpreting the question. We all know he's GETTING IN. The question is SHOULD he or does he DESERVE to be in.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Unless he falls off severely, then definitely yes. And even if he does, probably.

As it stands now, he has a Conn Smythe, Selke, captained 3 Cup winning teams, won Olympic Gold twice, and he is a lock to eclipse 1000 career points, barring a career-ending injury in the next 3-5 years.

 

[Captain Bowie]

I'd have an easier time saying yes if Bergeron and Kopitar didn't come a long and out-Selke him 6 of the last 7 years while also being better offensive players.

Is it really necessary for the third best 2-way center of an era to get into the hall?

He has been very good, even great in the playoffs, but is probably a step behind the top 3 playoffs performers of this era; Crosby, Kane and Malkin (for forwards/scoring at least). Again, is it necessary for the 4th best playoff scoring forward of an era to get in? You could also argue Getzlaf and Giroux ahead based on PPG as well.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Some people are misreading/interpreting the question. We all know he's GETTING IN. The question is SHOULD he or does he DESERVE to be in.

Should or deserve are totally subjective to the eye of the beholder. There's no moving target for getting into the HHoF, and the HHoF isn't personal to the thousands of posters on HFBoards. You're either in or you're not.

But I guess to more specifically answer your question. Yes he should, and yes he deserves to be.

 

[Captain Bowie]

lock to eclipse 1000 career points, barring a career-ending injury in the next 3-5 years.

That's a pretty big caveat. At his current career pace, it would take him about 380 more games to hit 1000. His PPG has dipped about 10 percentage points the last few years, so let's say at least 400 games. That's almost 5 full season without missing a game. He'd have to play 5 and a half more seasons at his current pace of points and games per season to hit 1000. A lot can happen in that time. Probably closer to 50/50 that he surpasses 1K than a near lock.

 

[Critical13]

I'd have an easier time saying yes if Bergeron and Kopitar didn't come a long and out-Selke him 6 of the last 7 years while also being better offensive players.

Is it really necessary for the third best 2-way center of an era to get into the hall?

He has been very good, even great in the playoffs, but is probably a step behind the top 3 playoffs performers of this era; Crosby, Kane and Malkin (for forwards/scoring at least). Again, is it necessary for the 4th best playoff scoring forward of an era to get in? You could also argue Getzlaf and Giroux ahead based on PPG as well.

That first statement is a bit strange. Bergeron is worshipped around here, while Toews is near-universally panned.

Name	Reg Season ppg	Playoff ppg
Toews	0.85	0.85
Bergeron	0.76	0.76
Kopitar	0.89	0.83

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

He's the best playoff performer of the 3 you mentioned, and he's without question a better offensive player than Bergeron.

Bergeron has 4 Selkes, but Toews has 1 Selke and 1 Conn Smythe. To me, the Conn Smythe is a pretty legendary acheivement. I would imagine a lot of Conn Smythe winner's are in the Hall. He's close to Kopitar, but his career has eclipsed Bergeron's. Captain of 3 cup winning teams can't be ignored, especially considering how incredible he was in all 3.

I think he belongs in the HHoF question. If he doesn't nosedive during the next 5 years, he's 1st ballot IMO.

 

[Captain Bowie]

That first statement is a bit strange. Bergeron is worshipped around here, while Toews is near-universally panned.

Name	Reg Season ppg	Playoff ppg
Toews	0.85	0.85
Bergeron	0.76	0.76
Kopitar	0.89	0.83

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

He's the best playoff performer of the 3 you mentioned, and he's without question a better offensive player than Bergeron.

Bergeron has 4 Selkes, but Toews has 1 Selke and 1 Conn Smythe. To me, the Conn Smythe is a pretty legendary acheivement. I would imagine a lot of Conn Smythe winner's are in the Hall. He's close to Kopitar, but his career has eclipsed Bergeron's. Captain of 3 cup winning teams can't be ignored, especially considering how incredible he was in all 3.

I think he belongs in the HHoF question. If he doesn't nosedive during the next 5 years, he's 1st ballot IMO.

That's fair.

I guess I look at it that Toews' PPG has been trending down, while Bergeron's has improved over the last 3 years. Despite Bergeron being 3 years older, he seems to have gotten better with age while Toews has slowed down a bit. Extrapolating for their current trends, I have a hard time seeing Toews being considered the better offensive player when both careers are done.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

That's a pretty big caveat. At his current career pace, it would take him about 380 more games to hit 1000. His PPG has dipped about 10 percentage points the last few years, so let's say at least 400 games. That's almost 5 full season without missing a game. He'd have to play 5 and a half more seasons at his current pace of points and games per season to hit 1000. A lot can happen in that time. Probably closer to 50/50 that he surpasses 1K than a near lock.

You're ignoring his 110 playoff points, which is of course very understandable given that I did not specify that I was including them. Toews playoff performance is important imo because it has been mostly elite. He is 6th in playoff points since entering the league and 9th in P/G amongst players with over 70 games played. It is a significant part of his pedigree.

 

[Captain Bowie]

You're ignoring his 110 playoff points, which is of course very understandable given that I did not specify that I was including them. Toews playoff performance is important imo because it has been mostly elite. He is 6th in playoff points since entering the league and 9th in P/G amongst players with over 70 games played. It is a significant part of his pedigree.

OK, but just so we're clear that's not what people refer to when they say a guy scored 1000 points in the NHL.

 

[Critical13]

That's fair.

I guess I look at it that Toews' PPG has been trending down, while Bergeron's has improved over the last 3 years. Despite Bergeron being 3 years older, he seems to have gotten better with age while Toews has slowed down a bit. Extrapolating for their current trends, I have a hard time seeing Toews being considered the better offensive player when both careers are done.

I don't know if that's true. I don't have time to do it now, but if we look past last season (where Bergeron clearly out performed Toews), the few years proceeding that, they were pretty similar points wise.

Now if Bergeron can keep up what he did last year, and Toews also continues to trend down, then within 2-3 or so years we might see them as equal offensive players. At that point, I give the edge to Bergeron. I am not ready to count Toews out though.