Is Tim Thomas HHOF or HHOVG?

[BlueBull]

Tim Thomas was a Goalie who played for The Bruins along with Stints with the Panthers and the Stars. During his time playing in the NHL, he was a Great Hockey Player
William M Jennings in 2009
Vezina in 2009 and 2011
Conn Smythe in 2011
2x All Star Team
2011 Stanley Cup Win
Won 70.2% of the 305 Games he started in
U.HHOFS of 25.48 and O.HHOFS of 34.16 ( http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...hhofer-or-a-score-for-a-players-case.2478123/ )
He was the best Goalie in the NHL for a little while, but is he a Hall of Famer?
To me, it's close, but I think he is Hall Of Very Good. But it's my opinion, I would like to see what your opinions are.
-BlueBull

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[Doctor No]

I'll wait until Mike Farkas gets here.

I have Thomas as the 35th best goaltender of all-time (considering NHL only). Caveat: my list changes often.

 

[crobro]

How similar would you say are the careers of Thomas and Bernie Parent?

 

[Doctor No]

In the strictest sense of "peak", Parent and Thomas are similar. However, Parent's career as an NHL star needs to include his time in Toronto, and he also had some highlights in his first Philly stint (check out his 1968 playoffs for one),

 

[Son Goku]

Hall of fame talent but I don't think he "peaked" long enough. HOF is notoriously tough on goalies.

 

[Michael Farkas]

*grinds teeth*

*through clenched teeth* good thread...

 

[tony d]

Hall of Very Good. Had 1 heck of a peak but not long enough to get into the Hall of Fame.

 

[bobholly39]

voted HHOF

but i'm very, very big on peak.

 

[Thenameless]

voted HHOF

but i'm very, very big on peak.

I am too. He's right on the cusp of HoVG and HHoF. It's bad to have such a short prime, but he was a late bloomer. What did it for me was the ability to check off the boxes I find most critical. Was he the best, or at least considered to be one of the best at his position? Yes. Did he win a trophy or trophies related to him being the best or among the best? Yes. Bonus, the Stanley Cup and the performance that went with it (Conn Smythe) seals it for me.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

his career is a lot like Sandy Koufax's career. both had short careers with incredibly high peaks.

I get why length is a detriment to his case for some. Just seems weird that essentially saying "well if he added 4-5 average to his career he'd be in". Doesn't make sense to say someone needed more sub great seasons to make the HOF.

 

[Doctor No]

Just seems weird that essentially saying "well if he added 4-5 average to his career he'd be in". Doesn't make sense to say someone needed more sub great seasons to make the HOF.

Being an average goaltender for a prolonged period of time has value. A significant amount of value.

For evidence, consider the contracts that are regularly given to average goaltenders, and consider all of the playoff teams who wish that they'd had average goaltending.

 

[Thenameless]

his career is a lot like Sandy Koufax's career. both had short careers with incredibly high peaks.

I get why length is a detriment to his case for some. Just seems weird that essentially saying "well if he added 4-5 average to his career he'd be in". Doesn't make sense to say someone needed more sub great seasons to make the HOF.

Exactly. Who cares about the compiler crap - I don't care if head had another 4-5 seasons as a top 10 Vezina vote-getter.

"Would I have wanted him in my team's net during his best years?" Damn straight.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Susan Boyle type career with a milk run thru the minors and European hockey.



without the endearing personality.

 

[Thenameless]

Tim Thomas = Susan Boyle

Fifteen minutes of "fame". "Fame" nonetheless?

 

[Killion]

Tim Thomas = Susan Boyle

Timmy?... the son that Tex & Edna Boil would have but never did have...
..................... www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS5zNX2zVbk .............................................

 

[BlueBull]

What is interesting to note is I posted this on Thomas's Birthday by accident .
Happy belated Birthday, Tim!

 

[tarheelhockey]

This gets asked a lot. I think Thomas had a real shot when the buzzer sounded in Game 7 of the 2011 Finals. If everything freeze-frames there, he becomes a really interesting case for the voters. Even midway through the next season, there was a lot of attention to the case he was building game-by-game.

Then in January of 2012, it all started falling apart. First he made the victors' White House visit a debacle, then he loses the first round in OT of game 7 (which is what brought Holtby to the forefront). Then he drops off the team abruptly for political reasons, going into his "mountain bunker" phase. During his break from hockey the Bruins trade him unceremoniously to the Islanders for a conditional draft pick. Comes back with the Panthers, and doesn't look great. Goes to the stars and looks even worse, eventually retiring as a backup only 3 years removed from a legendary season.

His HHOF case died in that middle paragraph. He put off a ton of people with his behavior in leaving Boston, and really undermined his prior performances with an awful comeback attempt. There's still something of an intriguing case on paper, but I don't think a lot of people really put their heart into arguing for him anymore, and at the end of the day it's about the vote and not the stats.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

This gets asked a lot. I think Thomas had a real shot when the buzzer sounded in Game 7 of the 2011 Finals. If everything freeze-frames there, he becomes a really interesting case for the voters. Even midway through the next season, there was a lot of attention to the case he was building game-by-game.

Then in January of 2012, it all started falling apart. First he made the victors' White House visit a debacle, then he loses the first round in OT of game 7 (which is what brought Holtby to the forefront). Then he drops off the team abruptly for political reasons, going into his "mountain bunker" phase. During his break from hockey the Bruins trade him unceremoniously to the Islanders for a conditional draft pick. Comes back with the Panthers, and doesn't look great. Goes to the stars and looks even worse, eventually retiring as a backup only 3 years removed from a legendary season.

His HHOF case died in that middle paragraph. He put off a ton of people with his behavior in leaving Boston, and really undermined his prior performances with an awful comeback attempt. There's still something of an intriguing case on paper, but I don't think a lot of people really put their heart into arguing for him anymore, and at the end of the day it's about the vote and not the stats.

the White House thing pisses me off in general. Mostly because the same media members that ripped Thomas for not going due to disagreeing with Obama are now praising the teams refusing to go meet with Trump as heroes.

And that 2012 series against Washington isn't on Thomas. he had a .923/2.14 line in that series.

in 4 of the games the Bruins only scored 1 goal.

game 1: 1-0 OT W
game 2: 2-1 2OT L
game 4: 2-1 L
game 7: 2-1 OT L

The irony is I really do think he is in the HOF if he has some more years similar to that final FLA/DAL year. Simply because the GP and W columns would have enough in them for some people

 

[Canadiens1958]

Tim Thomas = Susan Boyle

Fifteen minutes of "fame". "Fame" nonetheless?

Fifteen minutes in the spotlight. Question is having the talent/ability - physical and mental to extend it. Live with and thru the demands. As tarheels posted, the last proved problematic.

 

[Canadiens1958]

the White House thing pisses me off in general. Mostly because the same media members that ripped Thomas for not going due to disagreeing with Obama are now praising the teams refusing to go meet with Trump as heroes.

And that 2012 series against Washington isn't on Thomas. he had a .923/2.14 line in that series.

in 4 of the games the Bruins only scored 1 goal.

game 1: 1-0 OT W
game 2: 2-1 2OT L
game 4: 2-1 L
game 7: 2-1 OT L

The irony is I really do think he is in the HOF if he has some more years similar to that final FLA/DAL year. Simply because the GP and W columns would have enough in them for some people

Don Simmons with a SC and a disagreeable personality.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Fifteen minutes in the spotlight. Question is having the talent/ability - physical and mental to extend it. Live with and thru the demands. As tarheels posted, the last proved problematic.

unless your name is Paul Henderson...right?

 

[tarheelhockey]

the White House thing pisses me off in general. Mostly because the same media members that ripped Thomas for not going due to disagreeing with Obama are now praising the teams refusing to go meet with Trump as heroes.

And that 2012 series against Washington isn't on Thomas. he had a .923/2.14 line in that series.

in 4 of the games the Bruins only scored 1 goal.

game 1: 1-0 OT W
game 2: 2-1 2OT L
game 4: 2-1 L
game 7: 2-1 OT L

The irony is I really do think he is in the HOF if he has some more years similar to that final FLA/DAL year. Simply because the GP and W columns would have enough in them for some people

Note that Thomas himself said it wasn't about "disagreeing with Obama". He went out of his way to say it was not a party-politics stance. What's happened recently involves a totally different set of issues and reactions.

Anyway, any time a player decides to make a spectacle of his political views, he's going to end up reducing himself in the eyes of at least half the population. I think we can all think of other situations recently where this has happened. Thomas multiplied the effect by flat-out walking off the team for political reasons. And not just any team, but a tight-knit team with incredible chemistry which was coming off a Cup win. A team that was primed to make another Finals run with a different goalie, further reducing Thomas' legacy as a key component.

As far as 2012 goes, I agree that he was good in those playoffs. But at the end of the day, losing a Game 7 OT does not help a goalie's legacy. It's not fair but it's the reality of the position and part of the reason so few goalies make the HHOF.

 

[unknown33]

I don't think he will make it, but that's largely due to how much harder it is for goaltenders.

 

[Thenameless]

While I would have Tim Thomas making it just barely, I'd also like to emphasize the "just barely" part as well. While his case for peak performance is certainly strong, I also can't help but feel that there is still something lacking.

And I'm never one to worry about off-court/off-field/off-ice shenanigans. OJ Simpson deserves to be in Canton and Pete Rose deserves to be in Cooperstown in my books.

 

[trentmccleary]

HHOVG
He played on a system team behind Norris and Selke winners. Didn't do much before then and did nothing after. Has no international resume. And was replaced pretty easily by the next guy who came along (who arguably does Thomas' job more consistently). I like the peak, but the situation was awfully cozy and we can't point some other time when he got it done (international play, another team, a significantly different edition of the Bruins). IMO, he doesn't belong in the HHOF.