Is this a cap circumvention?

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by DeflatedFootball7, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. DeflatedFootball7

    DeflatedFootball7 Registered User

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    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=377385

    There is a lot of discussion about this on the Flyers board and a couple of blogs as well as in the comments in the article.

    When I first saw Schenn was sent down I was furious. However upon learning of the reduced cap I was ready to proclaim Holmgren a genius and GM criminal mastermind. However all this debate about "circumvention" has me worried. What does everyone else think?
     
  2. Well I'm sure he would win a grievance if he were to file one. Pretty dumb move anyways. Who was the last forward to average 25 minutes a game? Has it ever been done since the nhl recorded the stat?
     
  3. Benjo

    Benjo Registered User

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    St Louis and Brindamour were at about 24:17 avg ice time in the mid 00's.
     
  4. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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    It's not even close to cap circumvention.

    Once again, "management" and "circumvention" are not the same thing.
     
  5. Classic Devil

    Classic Devil Spirit of 1988

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    It's only circumvention if you're being paid more than your cap hit. In this case, he's not being paid all that money; the cap hit is commensurate to the pay the player is receiving. Therefore, no circumvention.
     
  6. danishh

    danishh Registered User

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    everyone knows the bonus is unattainable, but in order for it to come off the books, it has to actually be impossible.

    If the flyers didnt do this, they would have to either scratch him for a game or wait until he missed a game due to injury or something, otherwise they would be carrying that dead cap space all year for no reason.

    Unless schenn files a grievance or something, i dont have a problem with it. It's a stupid bonus anyways, who knows why it's in the contract.
     
  7. Ok so looking it up only Joe Sakic Paul Kariya Jagr and Pavel Bure(several times) have done it in the past 15 or so years.
    Oh makes more sense now.
     
  8. Snipsnap12

    Snipsnap12 Registered User

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    smart move actually because if he does not miss one game the bonus is still "possible" so it counts against the cap. As soon as he misses one game it is automatically void and the cap hit is cut in half.
     
  9. Well the article says he has to play 25 minutes in every game. So if they are right(they might not be) the bonus could be off the books after game 1 even if he plays no?
     
  10. SomeDude

    SomeDude Registered User

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    A bit different, but the Penguins regularly assign players who don't have to clear waivers to the AHL when they have a couple of days off to get a little extra cap room. Not circumvention, it's good management.
     
  11. Well that's actually legitimately pretty stupid. Chicago did this a few years ago too and it was just as stupid then. What are you saving a few thousand dollars a week? Makes no sense.
     
  12. Loopholes are legal until closed.
     
  13. Snipsnap12

    Snipsnap12 Registered User

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    I was under the impression that he had to average 25 minutes a game, and play in all 82..I could be wrong, but this would make sense as to why they are going to sit him for one game.
     
  14. massivegoonery

    massivegoonery Registered User

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    It makes perfect sense if you need those few thousands.
     
  15. massivegoonery

    massivegoonery Registered User

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    It's not a loophole, it's how things have worked since long before the salary cap came into effect. Back in the day, players who had a "games played" bonus just wouldn't get played.
     
  16. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    This is a case of sportswriter not really understanding what he's writing about w.r.t. the CBA.

    There is no possible "B" bonus that pays "if he plays 25 minutes in each of the 82 regular season games".

    Exhibit 5 of the CBA lists all possible bonus categories allowed in ELS contracts.

    The only individual "A" bonuses that Schenn is eligible for - with a max of $212K per bonus and a max total of $850K - are:

    The only categories for which a player may get league wide "B" bonuses - with a total max of $2M - are:

    - Top 5 finish in Hart, Norris, Vezina, Selke, or Richard trophy

    - Win Jennings trophy

    - Named 1st or 2nd Team NHL All-Star

    - Win Conn Smythe trophy

    - Finish among the top ten (10) forwards in the League in goals, assists, points or points per Game (Minimum 42 Regular Season Games)

    - Finish among the top ten (10) defensemen in the League in goals, assists, points, points per Game (Minimum 42 Regular Season Games) or ice time among defensemen (aggregate and/or per Game. Minimum 42 Regular Season Games)

    - Finishes among the top five (5) goaltenders in the League in goals against average (25 game minimum, 30 minute minimum), save % (25 game minimum, 30 minute minimum) or wins (30 minute minimum, goaltender of record).
     
  17. Well that confuses things. So why is he being sat then? I don't see how one game can affect any of those bonuses. The ice time bonuses he'll likely get no matter what.
     
  18. Luigi Habs

    Luigi Habs Captain Saku

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    did Couturier make the team?
     
  19. Ozamataz Buckshank

    Ozamataz Buckshank Registered User

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    Pretty remarkable that a smart move like this is coming from the same organization who apparently didn't even read the CBA with some of the mistakes they made.
     
  20. Snipsnap12

    Snipsnap12 Registered User

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    for now.
     
  21. Bear of Bad News

    Bear of Bad News HFBoards Escape Goat

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    What makes it "pretty stupid", legitimately or otherwise?
     
  22. DeflatedFootball7

    DeflatedFootball7 Registered User

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    For now. Time will tell if he makes it full time.
     
  23. Well what Chicago was doing was sending Jack Skille up and down every few days saying he had made the team. They did this for a while and then eventually just left him down there. There was almost no point to it and they got almost nothing out of it since they made no trades other than dumping Barkers salary at the deadline.

    Having these guys fly to Wilkse-Barre and then back(because they do have to) just to save a measly amount of capspace is not very smart sorry to say.
     
  24. skroob**

    skroob** Guest

    Its not circumvention, but i would be pissed as hell if i was Schenn. Taking money out of my pocket because you cant properly manage your staff assets? Fark you.
     
  25. Thrice

    Thrice To Be Everywhere...

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    The contract was drafted by Los Angeles' capologist, Jeff Solomon.
     

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