Is there any argument for Drai > McD like before there was Geno > Sid

[OilCanada92]

Seriously? You dont see the difference?

Gaudreau is much better then moneyhands.

McDavid is much better then drai.

These are in no way similar.

Yeah. My general point was lost on you.

Reverse the players then. No one saying Monahan isn't a 30 goal scorer because he wouldn't be able to do it with Bennett instead of Gaudreau on his line.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Forget about your perceived criticisms for a sec. Nuge and Neal are very good options for Drai to play with on the second line. Nuge is a competent center who could center Drai so he can play wing which he seems better at, or he could run center and have Neal as a winger who could make use of Drai's elite play making and bury loads of goals.

I think it's silly to not try Drai again on the 2nd line, especially considering how he has become a totally different player. I think spreading the points around is the way to go for more depth. Make Nuge or Neal better on the 2nd line. Malkin had no issues running a second line on the Pens which I hear all the time were a team with horrible wingers that were as bad as what the Oilers have. We are in agreement Drai is a better more complete more capable elite player now than he ever has been. He is ready to fulfill his role and help fill out the team.

Why mess with something that is going so well right now? Is this a formula to win the cup? No, clearly not. But this team isn't ready for that anyways. Making the playoffs is a start and we finally get some salary cap space next year and even more the year after that to sign winger help. We have a solid stable of players coming up in the farm team that should be able to fit in the middle six as well (Benson, Yamamoto, McLeod, Maroody, Lavoie, Maksimov most namely). I don't think having 2 decent lines is better than having the 2nd best line in hockey but that's just my opinion.

Now, if the Oilers really start struggling and most namely they can't score, I would agree that Tippett would need to shake things up and that would include Drai being on the 2nd line. But until that time comes, I'm okay with how this is going. RNH is just starting to heat up and the real weak link on that 2nd line is Chiasson right now.

 

[Future GOAT]

Why mess with something that is going so well right now? Is this a formula to win the cup? No, clearly not. But this team isn't ready for that anyways. Making the playoffs is a start and we finally get some salary cap space next year and even more the year after that to sign winger help. We have a solid stable of players coming up in the farm team that should be able to fit in the middle six as well (Benson, Yamamoto, McLeod, Maroody, Lavoie, Maksimov most namely). I don't think having 2 decent lines is better than having the 2nd best line in hockey but that's just my opinion.

Now, if the Oilers really start struggling and most namely they can't score, I would agree that Tippett would need to shake things up and that would include Drai being on the 2nd line. But until that time comes, I'm okay with how this is going. RNH is just starting to heat up and the real weak link on that 2nd line is Chiasson right now.

I don't think we'd be talking 2 decent lines though, we'd be talking 2 very good lines. I think that would be a much bigger threat should the Oilers make the playoffs than the top heavy team it currently is.

 

[bobholly39]

To answer OP, no.

And there wasn't for Malkin either - not until he won all the awards in 2009, followed up with a truly dominating smythe. Drai is missing that. He's super talented - so it's normal to see him outshine McDavid in some stretches, and vice versa. But to really start an argument he has to do something significant. Hart/Lindsay/Ross - or Smythe/cup leader, or something like that. Then it would get people talking.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Basically it boils down to this.

Either McDavid is the best player in the world and he makes all of his linemates better. Ie improves their point totals by at least 20.

Or he is just elite and drai is what makes him so good.

I know which is more likely. But I'll let each decide for themselves.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Basically it boils down to this.

Either McDavid is the best player in the world and he makes all of his linemates better. Ie improves their point totals by at least 20.

Or he is just elite and drai is what makes him so good.

I know which is more likely. But I'll let each decide for themselves.

Or a third option:

McDavid is the best player in the world AND Draisaitl is elite in his own right and helps McDavid produce even more than he would without him.

 

[NoMessi]

Malkin put himself in the conversation for best player with Crosby and OV after the 08/09 season.

If you need to qualify a "healthy" Malkin vs. just Malkin, then your argument is lacking.

Your conviction about the 2017 Conn Smythe doesn't change the near unanimous support Crosby got for the Smythe that year.

And thats yet another lie from Daver. Quality as usual.

 

[NoMessi]

I don't agree with that comparison.

Draisaitl isn't Malkin. If the Oilers actually had a Malkin to play with McDavid, we'd have MacKinnon.

Malkin also tended to play with the better wingers. He got Kessel and Neal.

If McDavid is Crosby, MacKinnon is Malkin and Kucherov is Ovechkin, I'd say Draisaitl is like "a Getzlaf." He's a star player but also someone who isn't going to be a top 5-10 in scoring if he doesn't have another legit 1st line player to work with. Nothing wrong with that. I'd say that describes the majority of the players who finish in the top 5-10 in scoring.

The Oilers don't have an equivalent to that level of depth scoring. If the Pens didn't have a prime Kessel or Neal, they likely would have tried Crosby and Malkin together more often.

Another wrong. Crosby got the quality wingers the first years, including Hossa and Kunitz. Then Malkin got Neal but later Kessel was first on Crosbys wing before being put with Malkin. Then Guentzel does success with Malkin but Crosby got him anyway, even though Malkins stats with Guentzel was better.

SO WRONG WRONG WRONG.

 

[foshizzle]

He's obviously an elite player but if he's capable of 100+ points on his own line it's supremely dumb on the coach's part to not split them up and have them carry their own lines. The reason Pittsburgh has been so successful is because Crosby and Malkin are on separate lines so you have to deal with one or the other for 40+ minutes a night.

What a myopic view and huge generalization. You have zero clue on the roster structure. They play on the same line because the Oilers just don’t have the organizational depth at wing to support three centres (Hopkins, Leon, Connor). Coach has no choice but to double up on centres on one line. Connor has played with both RNH as his winger and Leon, the production was highest with Leon. Clearly, since you must be experienced coaching in the NHL, must have known this.

 

[daver]

And thats yet another lie from Daver. Quality as usual.

Senators' Erik Karlsson received a surprise Conn Smythe Trophy vote - Sportsnet.ca

Sorry, "near unanimous" is incorrect. "Vast majority" is more appropriate.

Incoming claim of biased media in 3, 2, 1....

 

[Regal]

Yeah. My general point was lost on you.

Reverse the players then. No one saying Monahan isn't a 30 goal scorer because he wouldn't be able to do it with Bennett instead of Gaudreau on his line.

Actually quite a few do. Gaudreau doesn't get questioned because he's the best player on his line, and on just about any team he's going to play with a Monahan-quality player. Monahan gets questioned though because he plays with the better, actuallly elite player in Gaudreau. He wouldn't necessarily get that type of linemate on most teams as a lot of teams have better centers, and he can't drive a line on his own to the same degree. Every player who plays with a better player or players gets their production put in context around here. I don't know why so many Oiler fans seem to miss it.

Check out this thread to see how many people question Monahan's totals:

Horvat vs Monahan

Draisaitl's totals away from McDavid are obviously brought down by the poor depth of the Oilers, and he would score a lot more as the best player on his line with the actual top line players he would get on most teams, but it's also obvious that he's in a unique position as an elite player playing with the best player in the world, and he's not going to score as much in an average situation for such an elite player as he does with McDavid. If he's being compared to other star players who aren't in as good of a situation for their production, this needs to be taken into account. I'm not sure why there's such push back against this.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Actually quite a few do. Gaudreau doesn't get questioned because he's the best player on his line, and on just about any team he's going to play with a Monahan-quality player. Monahan gets questioned though because he plays with the better, actuallly elite player in Gaudreau. He wouldn't necessarily get that type of linemate on most teams as a lot of teams have better centers, and he can't drive a line on his own to the same degree. Every player who plays with a better player or players gets their production put in context around here. I don't know why so many Oiler fans seem to miss it.

Check out this thread to see how many people question Monahan's totals:

Horvat vs Monahan

Draisaitl's totals away from McDavid are obviously brought down by the poor depth of the Oilers, and he would score a lot more as the best player on his line with the actual top line players he would get on most teams, but it's also obvious that he's in a unique position as an elite player playing with the best player in the world, and he's not going to score as much in an average situation for such an elite player as he does with McDavid. If he's being compared to other star players who aren't in as good of a situation for their production, this needs to be taken into account. I'm not sure why there's such push back against this.

The people he is compared to don't exactly have terrible situations. Marner plays with JT, Pasta plays on the best line in hockey, Rants played with MacK. Those have been 3 very common comparables the past year-2. That's probably where the pushback comes from. Especially since the linemate argument is most commonly used against Drai more than most people. Some on this forum still think he's just a very good player instead of realizing he is a superstar in his own right.

 

[PensandCaps]

No. Until Drai plays and centres his own line away from McDavid and puts up McDavid like totals...then no.

Malkin was legitimately outplaying Crosby on his own line away from Crosby. 07-08 and 08-09, Malkin was legitimately better than Sid.

 

[PensandCaps]

Another wrong. Crosby got the quality wingers the first years, including Hossa and Kunitz. Then Malkin got Neal but later Kessel was first on Crosbys wing before being put with Malkin. Then Guentzel does success with Malkin but Crosby got him anyway, even though Malkins stats with Guentzel was better.

SO WRONG WRONG WRONG.

lol Malkin won the art ross and had a 36 point playoff run with Sykora/Fedatanko/Talbot as his wingers.

Crosby has first pick on wingers.

and Kessel wasnt really a good thing for Malkin at 5v5. they lacked chemistry and struggled defensively. Crosby and Kessel struggled too, but Malkin had to deal with Kessel, not Crosby. Malkin gets the unwanteds from Crosby

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Drai isn't a top 10 forward without McDavid

 

[Frank Drebin]

Basically it boils down to this.

Either McDavid is the best player in the world and he makes all of his linemates better. Ie improves their point totals by at least 20.

Or he is just elite and drai is what makes him so good.

I know which is more likely. But I'll let each decide for themselves.

Lmao

 

[Regal]

The people he is compared to don't exactly have terrible situations. Marner plays with JT, Pasta plays on the best line in hockey, Rants played with MacK. Those have been 3 very common comparables the past year-2. That's probably where the pushback comes from. Especially since the linemate argument is most commonly used against Drai more than most people. Some on this forum still think he's just a very good player instead of realizing he is a superstar in his own right.

I think it's definitely overblown for Draisaitl, but I think that narrative is starting to change this year with him out playing and outscoring McDavid so far. His underlying numbers last year suggested regression too, which was another point against him. I thought he'd fall back to more 40 goal, 90 point levels this year, which would have put him more in line with those comparables even considering they have good situations as well, but I definitely underrated him. If he continues his play and puts up better numbers than last year, I think he'll get his due.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Drai isn't a top 10 forward without McDavid

Well over the past 2 seasons he's been a top 10 forward and at the age of 24 he's taken his game to another level this year. Can you watch a couple games before you just assume McDavid does everything? Connor is my favourite player in the game but he benefits greatly from having a player as good as Drai just like Boston's top line dominates, or the multiple other top lines/duos in the league feed off each other. Not sure why we love to use the argument of having a good linemate against them as much as we do against Drai.

 

[HugginThePost]

Well over the past 2 seasons he's been a top 10 forward and at the age of 24 he's taken his game to another level this year. Can you watch a couple games before you just assume McDavid does everything? Connor is my favourite player in the game but he benefits greatly from having a player as good as Drai just like Boston's top line dominates, or the multiple other top lines/duos in the league feed off each other. Not sure why we love to use the argument of having a good linemate against them as much as we do against Drai.

Probably because McDavid is not a good line mate, he is the best line mate you can have in the game, and it's not really even close, right?

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

McDavid is still better but gets interfered with almost every shift.

 

[NoMessi]

Senators' Erik Karlsson received a surprise Conn Smythe Trophy vote - Sportsnet.ca

Sorry, "near unanimous" is incorrect. "Vast majority" is more appropriate.

Incoming claim of biased media in 3, 2, 1....

So you admitted on being wrong. Guess its a first for everything.

 

[daver]

So you admitted on being wrong. Guess its a first for everything.

So you agree that Crosby was clearly the deserving winner then?

 

[daver]

lol Malkin won the art ross and had a 36 point playoff run with Sykora/Fedatanko/Talbot as his wingers.

Crosby has first pick on wingers.

and Kessel wasnt really a good thing for Malkin at 5v5. they lacked chemistry and struggled defensively. Crosby and Kessel struggled too, but Malkin had to deal with Kessel, not Crosby. Malkin gets the unwanteds from Crosby

I don't think the linemate argument is relevant but Malkin has benefited from easier matchups and relied on less defensively.

 

[unicornpig]

until drai does it on his own line he will always be mcdavids sidekick.

 

[ElysiumAB]

McDavid needs Draisaitl just as much as Draisaitl needs McDavid.

This is just not true.