Is there any argument for Drai > McD like before there was Geno > Sid

[Connor McConnor]

Probably because McDavid is not a good line mate, he is the best line mate you can have in the game, and it's not really even close, right?

Definitely not denying that but the examples I mentioned often don't just play with one good teammate they have a complete dominant line including excellent 1Ds in the back end to get them the puck as well. Even having the best player in the world on your wing won't make you as dominant as Drai has been for the better part of 1.5 years now. I guess us Oiler fans just have to be patient. Eventually people will come to realize what those who watch every game see. That Drai is a top 10 player in the game right now, regardless of McJesus being his linemate.

 

[JeremyTB]

I would take MacKinnon over Draisaitl. But I wouldn't take him over McDavid

 

[Brucelenok]

I don't agree with that comparison.

Draisaitl isn't Malkin. If the Oilers actually had a Malkin to play with McDavid, we'd have MacKinnon.

Malkin also tended to play with the better wingers. He got Kessel and Neal.

If McDavid is Crosby, MacKinnon is Malkin and Kucherov is Ovechkin, I'd say Draisaitl is like "a Getzlaf." He's a star player but also someone who isn't going to be a top 5-10 in scoring if he doesn't have another legit 1st line player to work with. Nothing wrong with that. I'd say that describes the majority of the players who finish in the top 5-10 in scoring.

The Oilers don't have an equivalent to that level of depth scoring. If the Pens didn't have a prime Kessel or Neal, they likely would have tried Crosby and Malkin together more often.

Kucherov does not resemble prime Ovechkin. Nobody in this league today touches or share similarties with prime Ovi. He was unique player. Kids these days cannot even score 50 goals including Kucherov who barely can crack 40

 

[HugginThePost]

Definitely not denying that but the examples I mentioned often don't just play with one good teammate they have a complete dominant line including excellent 1Ds in the back end to get them the puck as well. Even having the best player in the world on your wing won't make you as dominant as Drai has been for the better part of 1.5 years now. I guess us Oiler fans just have to be patient. Eventually people will come to realize what those who watch every game see. That Drai is a top 10 player in the game right now, regardless of McJesus being his linemate.

I don't disagree with you at all.

Drai is a great player, truly he is.

What I don't buy into is that:

​

1. He doesn't benefit from playing with McDavid
   1. How much I'm not getting into
2. He is in any way a better player than McDavid
   1. That's just crazy talk
   2. I don't care how good he's been this year
3. I don't think what he is doing is sustainable
   1. He's still rocking a stupid SH%
   2. The PP will not continue as is
   3. His PDO will return to normal values

I'll also say that the numbers, if I am reading them right, suggest that when McDavid and Drai are on the ice with Kassian and the D-men they role out, usually Klef and Nurse, they dominate the ice. Nothing suggests that Drai and McDavid are struggling alone to make the one ice product effective. When they are on the ice they dominate. When they are off the team sucks balls.

I'd be interested to see how Tampa's top line dominate compared to the Oilers. I'm betting it's really close. It just happens that the rest of Tampa's team is a lot better than the Oil.

Just my $0.02........

 

[Crabapple]

Malkin has had multiple stretches where he's been the best player in the world, both when Crosby is playing and out injured. Right now is Draisaitl's first time being considered playing better than McDavid, who effectively lost an off season of training due to his injury. For Draisaitl to be considered >McDavid, he needs to prove himself when McDavid is out as well as when he's on his game, in my opinion.

 

[ijuka]

Let us keep in mind that in year 2019 Draisaitl leads NHL in scoring, in fact since November 14 last year - a full year ago - Draisaitl and McDavid are even in terms of point scoring, though Draisaitl's 12 more goals give him the clear edge. That's a full calendar year.

 

[Connor McConnor]

I don't disagree with you at all.

Drai is a great player, truly he is.

What I don't buy into is that:

​

1. He doesn't benefit from playing with McDavid
   1. How much I'm not getting into
2. He is in any way a better player than McDavid
   1. That's just crazy talk
   2. I don't care how good he's been this year
3. I don't think what he is doing is sustainable
   1. He's still rocking a stupid SH%
   2. The PP will not continue as is
   3. His PDO will return to normal values

I'll also say that the numbers, if I am reading them right, suggest that when McDavid and Drai are on the ice with Kassian and the D-men they role out, usually Klef and Nurse, they dominate the ice. Nothing suggests that Drai and McDavid are struggling alone to make the one ice product effective. When they are on the ice they dominate. When they are off the team sucks balls.

I'd be interested to see how Tampa's top line dominate compared to the Oilers. I'm betting it's really close. It just happens that the rest of Tampa's team is a lot better than the Oil.

Just my $0.02........

#1 and #2 I agree with completely and I think most people would also agree (nor do I think any actual EDM fans in here have disagreed with so not sure why you even thought these were points worth pointing out).

#3 is a tough one for me. Yes his SH% is ridiculous but if you watch games you would know that Drai isn't a high volume shooter. He's an absolute sniper with a top 5 shot in the game (IMO). People were saying his SH% was ridiculous last year and he scored 50. He's on pace for over 60 this year. How much more of a sample size do you need to realize he may just be a super selective shooter with the best player in the world as his linemate setting him up for high % goal scoring opportunities.

Lastly, Klef and Nurse haven't been playing together at all this year, it's been Nurse and Bear so not sure where those numbers came from.

 

[illpucks]

Bump. 4pt night no McDavid

 

[Yuri35]

No, because Draisaitl couldn't exist without McDavid.

Malkin and Crosby were always separated.

....and malkin has even proved he could perform even better without Sid in the team(so you could eliminate the PP factor)

 

[Yuri35]

1. Malkin was actually the best player in the league without Crosby for a season, some would argue for a couple
2. Malkin was actually better than Crosby for some seasons when they played fully healther together.
3. Malkin was the better player than Sid in two of their 3 Stanley Cups run, and to this day I believe was robbed for 2nd Conn Smythe in 16-17 playoffs

So no, Draisaitl FOR NOW is not like Malkin to Crosby. Let's wait and see at least 1 season. But this season so far he has been better than McDavid, silly to argue

robbed is a big word as Sid was at least equally deserving of the CS that year.
However, there is no way Sid should have won the 2016 CS, that was probably one of the worst CS ever given in recent history (3pts behind his own teammate Kessel and 11 pts behind the leading scorer Couture which also was in the SC final + he was the only minus player among the top 10 PO scorers that year)

 

[Yuri35]

Another wrong. Crosby got the quality wingers the first years, including Hossa and Kunitz. Then Malkin got Neal but later Kessel was first on Crosbys wing before being put with Malkin. Then Guentzel does success with Malkin but Crosby got him anyway, even though Malkins stats with Guentzel was better.

SO WRONG WRONG WRONG.

between that post you were answering and the guy who had no trouble saying that Malkin's peak was BORDERLINE generational, we have certainly seen a few gems in this thread regarding Malkin so far.
The worst thing is that those supposed specialists who voted for the top 100 all time best NHL players were probably as ignorant as those posters

 

[Yuri35]

Senators' Erik Karlsson received a surprise Conn Smythe Trophy vote - Sportsnet.ca

Sorry, "near unanimous" is incorrect. "Vast majority" is more appropriate.

Incoming claim of biased media in 3, 2, 1....

so if there is no biased media, you'll probably explain to all of us why a guy like Malkin has been left out the top 100 all time nhl players list to the benefits of guys like Jonathan Toews.
We're waiting.

 

[deepthoughtsleafs]

If Drai dominates the playoffs and repeats this again next season, there is going to be serious consideration about him and McDavid being on the same level give or take some small differences. But until that happens, the answer is no.

To paint a picture, basically Drai has opened the door but has yet walked through it.

/Thread.

 

[SillyRabbit]

I mean, when Daniel Sedin missed 20+ games, Henrik Sedin still won the Art Ross and his PPG didn’t suffer at all when Daniel was out.

I would need to see them separated for an entire season, where Draisaitl outscores McDavid before I would even consider any arguments that he’s better.

The most definitive way to determine if he’s better would be seeing how he plays if McDavid missed an entire season like we saw with Malkin when Crosby was out.

But I hope we don’t ever see that.

 

[North Cole]

No, because Draisaitl couldn't exist without McDavid.

Malkin and Crosby were always separated.

 

[Rick C137]

so if there is no biased media, you'll probably explain to all of us why a guy like Malkin has been left out the top 100 all time nhl players list to the benefits of guys like Jonathan Toews.
We're waiting.

Holy f*** let it go dude, lmao. It was an arbitrary list that was created 3 over years ago and doesn’t mean anything. Move on

 

[Troubadour]

I'm way more intrigued by the fact a German player is a reasonable pick for the best hockey player in the world and an Art, Hart, Lindsay candidate.

This would have been a silly thought a mere five years ago.

 

[KidLine93]

McDavid needs Draisaitl just as much as Draisaitl needs McDavid.

They feed off of each other, without the vision of McDavid Draisaitl wouldn't be as good. He doesn't have the individual skills like Malkin to drive his own line

you missed his last 22 games on his own line? Or when the Oilers split them up in the playoffs

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Draisaitl sucks guys. Can't carry his own line. Not even a center.

 

[daver]

I mean, when Daniel Sedin missed 20+ games, Henrik Sedin still won the Art Ross and his PPG didn’t suffer at all when Daniel was out.

Bad example:

PPG w/ Daniel - 1.48

PPG w/o Daniel - 1.00

 

[daver]

Drai is certainly making this interesting. Malkin was always well ahead of Drai as a prospect and thru age 22/23. He was close to Crosby/McDavid at that age; someone who reached their prime early in their careers.

It's not crazy to think that Drai's ceiling was perhaps a lot higher than his resume leading up to the NHL would have predicted.

Moving forward, you have to think that these two will not spend much time together 5 on 5 together anymore. That should give us a concrete answer to the OP.

 

[Yuri35]

Holy **** let it go dude, lmao. It was an arbitrary list that was created 3 over years ago and doesn’t mean anything. Move on

of course it f***ing means something when you had guys like Lemieux or Kessel reacting to that thing

 

[Steve]

I know everyone liked Mallon and his Skillset is/was incredibly but did anyone really think he was better than Sid? Or are we just talking like he was better for a season or something?

As for Drasaitl we will see. He’s a great player no question but he either rides shotgun or he gets the benefit of second pairing dmen and not shut down centres trying to stifle his game. It is possible he could be better we will see.

 

[Statto]

The point is that no linemates of the likes of Gretzky or Lemieux were ever as close in terms of productions as Draisaitl has been to McDavid for well over a year now. McDavid simply isn't that much better than the next best players in the NHL as his fanboys would like to tell you. And Draiasitl is one of these players. Overall, he's just a notch below McDavid now and there are many areas where he is actually better.

Firstly Gretzky and Lemieux were another level all of their own beyond what is considered ‘generational’ today so it’s not the correct comparison. Second there are still examples where line-mates got close statistically, like Bernie Nichols’ 150 pts in the late 80’s. He was playing a similar role to Drai in that he played mostly with Gretzky when he could have ideally been running his own line. Jagr also had years where his numbers were close to Lemieux. Jagr was elite and bordering generational but never close to Lemieux.

I’m no fanboy of McDavid, or anyone really, but he’s more than a notch or two better than Drai. Don’t get me wrong Drai is elite and I’d love him on the Kings.

 

[JeremyTB]

Let's put it this way would a Draisaitl for McDavid trade straight up be a fair trade?