Is the OHL on its way to Brantford?

[GensLensBrandon]

Following some news out of Brantford's City Council on Monday nights, it sparks the question of if a team may be calling Brantford home soon.

Within an article released on the Brantford Expositor, it is said that an OHL team has actually approached Brantford.

Here is a breakdown and some loose possibilities:

Is the OHL on its way to Brantford?

Click to read more...

 

[ohloutsider]

Nice scribe but I don't agree with your choices. Don't see Petes or NB on the move. You have to remember how fast politicians move so 5 years is not along time for a city to approve and get their arena ready - my gut feeling - still Missy that they are in discussion with.

 

[From Up Top]

I think Brantford would be a great market for the OHL, but I don't see the Petes moving as long as the city is looking into building a new rink.

I'd look at either Mississauga or Flint as options to move in a few seasons from now.

 

[OHLFan90]

I think Brantford would be a great market for the OHL, but I don't see the Petes moving as long as the city is looking into building a new rink.

I'd look at either Mississauga or Flint as options to move in a few seasons from now.

When the writer approached us with this idea, we sat there and drew out a list of a few teams that just happened to meet criteria, fan support, public financial issues, stuff like that. So these teams just happened to be 2 of the 5 that made the list. The 2 with the biggest question marks but I think and the writer would probably agree its hard to see any team move right now. It's just weird that the original article said there is one team in talks with the city.

Flint was discussed. I brought that up mainly due to Rolf. I'd like to think he would negotiate a deal with the new owners to keep the team in Flint playing out of the DORT. But Rolf seams like a wild card thats why i think they could move. I don't think he will care who he sells too especially if he where to get some sort of minor pro team to play in Flint.

It could be interesting. I think Brantford would be a great market as well! City is starting to blossom again. Always been a huge love for hockey in Brantford and the surrounding communities. We shall see what happens. Going to be interesting moving forward!

 

[Captain Crash]

The owner of the Brantford 99ers confirmed months ago that he had entered discussions with the Steelheads and Civic Centre for a possible purchase and relocation. This was shortly before the Steelheads announced their lease extension.

 

[bobber]

Would the residents of Brantford support another team after having one they failed to support in the past? Not sure what the economy is like in that area?

 

[OHL4Life]

The owner of the Brantford 99ers confirmed months ago that he had entered discussions with the Steelheads and Civic Centre for a possible purchase and relocation. This was shortly before the Steelheads announced their lease extension.

that’s what I thought as well. there’s no mystery as to who the team was, it was the steelheads

peterborough also renegotiated their lease like 14 months ago I believe as well, so a lot of the points brought up there are moot.

edit: petes lease was renegotiated in Feb/17
Peterborough Petes Hope Financial Relief Provides Spark in OHL Title Pursuit

 

[TcNorth]

Hasn't Brantford failed before as a OHL Market? What has changed in Brantford. Would they have the smallest OIL arena if they came back?

 

[hockeynorth]

When the writer approached us with this idea, we sat there and drew out a list of a few teams that just happened to meet criteria, fan support, public financial issues, stuff like that. So these teams just happened to be 2 of the 5 that made the list. The 2 with the biggest question marks but I think and the writer would probably agree its hard to see any team move right now. It's just weird that the original article said there is one team in talks with the city.

Flint was discussed. I brought that up mainly due to Rolf. I'd like to think he would negotiate a deal with the new owners to keep the team in Flint playing out of the DORT. But Rolf seams like a wild card thats why i think they could move. I don't think he will care who he sells too especially if he where to get some sort of minor pro team to play in Flint.

It could be interesting. I think Brantford would be a great market as well! City is starting to blossom again. Always been a huge love for hockey in Brantford and the surrounding communities. We shall see what happens. Going to be interesting moving forward!

Who were the other two teams?

Flint
Petes
NB
Missy?
??? - Sudbury or Erie?

 

[buzzworthy]

Erie keeps getting mentioned. It will not happen! If anyone doubts the financial backing of the team and the commitment to Erie, they should ask Jim Waters, the multi-millionaire Canadian owner of the team. Erie was recently ranked as the second best team to play for in the OHL by hockey scouts, players, coaches, etc. A first class arena and many recent NHL success stories have made them solid.

 

[Hammer9001]

Let me first start by saying, I really don't want any team to move and screw it's fans. It sucks losing a team, and it sucks when an owner uses the threat of a move as leverage. That said, it is a conversation to be had here. First off, arena renovations of this scale don't happen overnight, so in a couple years this is a bit of a different conversation. As far as who? Well lets look at the bottom 8 team in terms of OHL attendance. My comments here aren't especially informed so if you have a better local perspective please share it and feel free to correct these comments.

North Bay - North Bay hasn't really had a deep run since moving from Brampton. This season coming up I think will be a big test but I think they can turn it around. It just strikes me as awfully soon to be moving them around.

Mississauga - The Steelheads are of course in this conversation after their current arena deal is done, which I believe is five year. Before then, it simply won't happen unless the city of Mississauga was asleep at the wheel during the arena deal and ownership was left with an escape clause. If the team hasn't turned a corner by then, I can see a move.

Flint - Flint I would say is probably the most likely, because to be honest, their owner has really shown some bad stripes. It was clear during his coaching scandal that is primary interest with the team was his kid getting minutes. What will happen when his kid is done with junior? I'll say this, he hasn't endeared himself to Flint and while they've been a basement dweller since inception, I think it will be interesting if they actually produce a competitive team. It's also pretty clear the league doesn't want another controversy coming out of Flint.

Sudbury - Sudbury is building a new arena for the Wolves and I'm to understand ownership may have a stake in the new arena. I'm very disinclined to think Sudbury is going anywhere any time soon.

Owen Sound - Really, Owen Sound doesn't belong on this list. Their average is a sellout average and many had said Owen Sound is the model of a small market franchise. The Attack aren't going anywhere.

Peterborough - Given the city council was looking at arena replacement and seems to fairly strongly believe in keeping the team in Peterborough, barring a massive sticker shock/municipal cleanout. I don't recall the last time Peterborough had a great team, and from my understanding attendance for the Pete's improved substantially this year.

Sarnia - I think the Sting are the sleeper here that no one is talking about. The team claims to have lost money and had attendance woes for some time and I believe and this season they were a top team in the west and it only bumped the attendance up by a couple hundred. I'm to understand their lease renewal comes up in two years as well.

Saginaw - The Spirit's attendance has declined a bit over the last few years, but I don't think to the point where a move is a serious consideration. I would think if Saginaw does end up moving, it would be after Flint has, but even then.

I think there is one last option that may present itself, and that's expansion. Cornwall I'm to understand has been pursuing a franchise for sometime, and Brantford coming in at the same time would balance the conferences.

 

[hockeynorth]

Let me first start by saying, I really don't want any team to move and screw it's fans. It sucks losing a team, and it sucks when an owner uses the threat of a move as leverage. That said, it is a conversation to be had here. First off, arena renovations of this scale don't happen overnight, so in a couple years this is a bit of a different conversation. As far as who? Well lets look at the bottom 8 team in terms of OHL attendance. My comments here aren't especially informed so if you have a better local perspective please share it and feel free to correct these comments.

North Bay - North Bay hasn't really had a deep run since moving from Brampton. This season coming up I think will be a big test but I think they can turn it around. It just strikes me as awfully soon to be moving them around.

Mississauga - The Steelheads are of course in this conversation after their current arena deal is done, which I believe is five year. Before then, it simply won't happen unless the city of Mississauga was asleep at the wheel during the arena deal and ownership was left with an escape clause. If the team hasn't turned a corner by then, I can see a move.

Flint - Flint I would say is probably the most likely, because to be honest, their owner has really shown some bad stripes. It was clear during his coaching scandal that is primary interest with the team was his kid getting minutes. What will happen when his kid is done with junior? I'll say this, he hasn't endeared himself to Flint and while they've been a basement dweller since inception, I think it will be interesting if they actually produce a competitive team. It's also pretty clear the league doesn't want another controversy coming out of Flint.

Sudbury - Sudbury is building a new arena for the Wolves and I'm to understand ownership may have a stake in the new arena. I'm very disinclined to think Sudbury is going anywhere any time soon.

Owen Sound - Really, Owen Sound doesn't belong on this list. Their average is a sellout average and many had said Owen Sound is the model of a small market franchise. The Attack aren't going anywhere.

Peterborough - Given the city council was looking at arena replacement and seems to fairly strongly believe in keeping the team in Peterborough, barring a massive sticker shock/municipal cleanout. I don't recall the last time Peterborough had a great team, and from my understanding attendance for the Pete's improved substantially this year.

Sarnia - I think the Sting are the sleeper here that no one is talking about. The team claims to have lost money and had attendance woes for some time and I believe and this season they were a top team in the west and it only bumped the attendance up by a couple hundred. I'm to understand their lease renewal comes up in two years as well.

Saginaw - The Spirit's attendance has declined a bit over the last few years, but I don't think to the point where a move is a serious consideration. I would think if Saginaw does end up moving, it would be after Flint has, but even then.

I think there is one last option that may present itself, and that's expansion. Cornwall I'm to understand has been pursuing a franchise for sometime, and Brantford coming in at the same time would balance the conferences.

You're right, Sudbury's ownership is the lead on the new arena. So much so that some in the community had brought it up as part of the reason for their purchase of the team. It's why I brought them up, because though they have poor attendance right now it is a hockey crazed community, and they are moving soon with the community. I wasn't aware of Erie's circumstances however, so thanks to the poster who brought it up, I really didn't know they were in such a good place. So, I have no clue who the fifth team they discussed could have been.

 

[Savard18]

First off, there's a vote at the end of the month to revive the task force to look into renovating the arena. That's hurdle 1. If that happens then it has to find that renovating the arena is feasible. That's hurdle 2. Then they have to find an architecture firm, contractors ect. Then they have to get funding. That's hurdle 3 and only after that can they even begin work that will surely take some time. I don't disagree Flint should be on the list of teams possibly moving at this point. The article says though a TEAM approached them about a move. If read exactly like that, I take that as an owner/organization approached Brantford about a move. That's not going to be Rolf. He owns the arena Flint plays in and spent $7-8 million renovating that recently. If they move, it'll be after the sale of the organization to another owner. They've been averaging just under 3,000 people in an arena that holds 4,000/4,400 standing with teams that have been struggling. Let them find some success this year and then hopefully a lot next year and those numbers are gonna jump dramatically. I'm not ruling it out, it's still always a concern at this point but I don't think they're the org that approached Brantford.

 

[OHLFan90]

Who were the other two teams?

Flint
Petes
NB
Missy?
??? - Sudbury or Erie?

Petes
NB
Sarnia
Missy
Ottawa

All have some financial issues. Fan support has been a issue in some cases. All in places the league would never want to abandon, however its hard to argue there aren't some issues with those teams.


I think all the teams are safe for now. The list of teams we named we don't think will move. After Belleville though, nothing surprises me with this league anymore.

Watch it be a team nobody would even think would ever relocate lol

 

[OHLFan90]

I think some fans will be shocked at the 2 teams the writer focused on but they shouldn't really take offense to it. Like lets say most fans had to put together a list of teams that could relocate. You look into factors like arena, finances, public support, economy, these 2 teams would make most lists. That doesn't mean we think they would move. As mentioned in the original post in the Brant News, it says 1 team has reached out to city council. Now that's pretty telling. Every team right now has steady owner ship. A future in their current markets. The logical choice would have been, Its probably Mississauga. And it might be. But what if it isn't?

This isn't going to happen overnight. This is going to be a process. I say at least 2-3 years. All we can do is speculate. If Brantford does go ahead with this and things aren't looking up in some markets, i'd be a little concerned.

 

[TcNorth]

I highly doubt Flint approached Brantford and therefore is not the team. Flint averages about 3,000 in an arena with 3,960 seats. No problem there or financially for Rolf. I am speculation Mississauga or Hamilton wth its 17,000 seat arena.

 

[Savard18]

Petes
NB
Sarnia
Missy
Ottawa

All have some financial issues. Fan support has been a issue in some cases. All in places the league would never want to abandon, however its hard to argue there aren't some issues with those teams.


I think all the teams are safe for now. The list of teams we named we don't think will move. After Belleville though, nothing surprises me with this league anymore.

Watch it be a team nobody would even think would ever relocate lol

So you're saying maybe London? I agree with what you wrote previously about Rolf. He is a wildcard that could be hard to read. He alone has to keep the Birds on any POSSIBLE relocation list. IF he's going to be smart about it though, he won't sell until the end of this current rebuild when the team has had at least some level of success on the ice and at the box office. By that point, I fully expect that place to be profitable and packed every night like it was not so long ago for ColHL/UHL games. I mean if they could sell out for THAT, I think the community will come back around to filling the place even with a highly disliked Rolf as an owner. Reports are he sank $7-8 mill into the arena and paid $8 mill for the Whalers. He didn't pay much for the arena. So let's say he's got $20 mill invested. Probably not even that much. Let's say he offers them both up for $25 mill. That's a halfway decent profit. If the place is showing a profit and fan support that's gotta be attractive to somebody. The opportunity to own both the franchise AND the arena and the ability to shuffle finances between the two to keep taxes low and utilize any government subsidies. No arena leases? No local government to negotiate with? C'mon. I don't know why people bring up Erie. They're at the upper end of stable franchises now and with new ownership and Byfield (along with many other kids) in Sudbury, I think you can put them on the list of not going anywhere soon clubs.

 

[Tarantula]

Reading between the lines it would have been Missy since E Kerr admitted there had been talks before the lease extension. Guessing with Mr. Kerr's ties with Mississauga it would likely include the sale of the franchise to move. They are beginning a 5 yr lease at the Paramount Centre starting this season.

I could Kerr selling the team if the balance sheet is not better. He wanted less rent to reflect the attendance, he claimed he was paying rent based on a near full rink. Not sure how much relief he has gotten. The Trout will be here for 5 yrs, then who knows who will own them or what their plans are. New ownership may not necessarily mean a move though that can be the case.

 

[AttackSound]

That also hold true for Owen Sound as the Attack have a strong g fan base and since 2011 have continued to improve and renovate the building forward.

However that being said there are lots of questions for certain OHL cities future. Being that cities like Peterborough, North Bay and even Hamilton, would be the logical choices of potential candidates for relocation it really comes down to 3 simple factors.

1- All 3 buildings are either at the end of there life span or need massive renovations to the building that may or may not be feasible for the cities there in.

2- With limited success in the past number of seasons would there be enough support to get the buildings up to standards the league wants.

3- Maybe the league has interests in expanding the league but like many times before and has limited options or resources to where they can without affecting other current cities markets which has a big part to play in what happens when a team is in talks of relocation.

Beyond the recent news article in the Brandtford newspaper that only states that the city has interests in returning to the OHL and are looking into potentially be available for a possible OHL club in the near future means that the OHL could consider expanding or relocating a current team to the city but has yet to supply any hard evidence that a team is moving anywhere anytime soon.

The only city that has had any sort of long term debt on potentially relocation is Mississauga as the attendance level has been anything but sellouts for the past number of years.

But after current renegotiations with the city it's more likely just rumor wins talking at this point nothing more

 

[hockeynorth]

Petes
NB
Sarnia
Missy
Ottawa

All have some financial issues. Fan support has been a issue in some cases. All in places the league would never want to abandon, however its hard to argue there aren't some issues with those teams.


I think all the teams are safe for now. The list of teams we named we don't think will move. After Belleville though, nothing surprises me with this league anymore.

Watch it be a team nobody would even think would ever relocate lol

London

 

[Hammer9001]

I highly doubt Flint approached Brantford and therefore is not the team. Flint averages about 3,000 in an arena with 3,960 seats. No problem there or financially for Rolf. I am speculation Mississauga or Hamilton wth its 17,000 seat arena.

That's fair, I was more speculating which franchises could move, less which franchise approached Brantford. As far as who approached Brantford, I think without a doubt it would have been Mississauga before their lease got redone and this is now finally breaking into the public sector.

As far as Hamilton, I don't think Andlauer after winning the championship in Hamilton and moving the team initially would be that quick to move the team to Brantford. He may have just gotten the catalyst he needed to make Hamilton a much more viable market for the Bulldogs and he's doing good numbers as far as attendance, which has grown every year and has a much larger market to work with in Hamilton. That said, Copps is old, over-sized and the team is likely heading for a rebuild. A new area or a renovation would go a long way to silence this, and I sincerely hope Hamilton's next city council doesn't drag their heels with Andlauer and him being willing to put up half the cost on a new arena.

 

[three dog night]

London

Only if they get an AHL or an East Coast Leauge team

 

[three dog night]

I have a feeling it might be Flint

 

[TcNorth]

Brantford would be the smallest OHL arena with 2,952 seats compared to Owen Sounds 2,983 seats, and that is before any other renovations that could drop Brantford’s seating even further. Owen Sound is financially solvent because they sellout their seats nearly every game. Not sure Brantford would be able to do that.

 

[Hammer9001]

Brantford would be the smallest OHL arena with 2,952 seats compared to Owen Sounds 2,983 seats, and that is before any other renovations that could drop Brantford’s seating even further. Owen Sound is financially solvent because they sellout their seats nearly every game. Not sure Brantford would be able to do that.

Yeah, I don't think there is a question that Brantford won't work without an extensive arena reno, and even then you'd still probably want them sharing a division with nearby teams, like how Hamilton is still part of the East division.