Is the Leafs Defensive play really that bad?

[Tmart335]

3 out of the top 10 players for Giveaways, are Leaf defensemen.

...and Jake Gardiner isn't one of them. He's currently at 12 giveaways in 13 games.
Last season he was 3rd overall in the league.

Hainsey, Zaitsev, Reilly... they're all up there. Dermott just had 5 Giveaways against Dallas.

But good old Jake, Mr. Bonehead... isn't messing up like he once did. Sure he's still had Giveaways,
but that has come with the territory for any offensive defensemen. Reilly? Well he's quite the
offensive force. But Hainsey? Zaitsev? This is always being a huge problem for the Leafs and
really it looks like Gardiner might be the only one make strives in this direction.

Perhaps last year's playoffs motivated someone to work on that part of their game?

Can you provide the other 7 players in the top 10?

You understand defenceman are going to be high because they start every play and basically get every draw from our own end. Giveaways will happen.

In 2016-2017 Karlsson, burns, doughty were in the top 10 for giveaways

Not saying any of our defence are better than the above. But numbers are skewed for defenceman. They breakout with the puck more than any forward.

 

[moon111]

1. Alec Martinez - 22
2. Dylan Larkin - 20
3. Drew Doughty - 20
4. Leon Draisaitl - 18
5. Hampus Lindholm - 18
6. Nikita Zaitsev - 18
7. Morgan Rielly - 17
8. Oscar Klefbom - 17
9. Brent Burns - 16
10. Mark Giordano, Kris Russell, Ron Hainsey, Darnell Nurse, Jeff Petry - 15
....
46. Jake Gardiner - 12
62. Travis Dermott - 11 (10 games)
135. Igor Ozhiganov -8
273. Martin Marincin - 5 (5 games)

I agree defencemen usually have higher numbers, but that usually is on par with their ability to generate offense as well.
Reilly being up there? Yeah that's to be expected. Hainsey? Zaitsev? You might expect a little less considering their
ability to generate offense. Also consider, there's at least six defencemen on every team, the Leafs blueliners are all
very high on this list.

 

[dangomon]

No.

 

[thewave]

No. You have seen low event hockey from them. The thing I don't understand is why Babcock doesn't have the open up to get a lead and then dial it back. It's puzzling.

 

[ToneDog]

The answer that interest me will be known in April. The answer was Yes last season until they met the Bruins .....

 

[mulefarm]

People were roasting Gardiner for his giveaways last year and now are making excuses for other players?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Well going back to Pittsburgh, not including empty net goals we've held teams to 2 goals and under in 5 of the past 6 games, so that's a nice trend. The bad news we've only scored more than twice two times during the same stretch.

When both the offense and defence start clicking at the same time, look out NHL.

 

[Zybalto]

1. Alec Martinez - 22
2. Dylan Larkin - 20
3. Drew Doughty - 20
4. Leon Draisaitl - 18
5. Hampus Lindholm - 18
6. Nikita Zaitsev - 18
7. Morgan Rielly - 17
8. Oscar Klefbom - 17
9. Brent Burns - 16
10. Mark Giordano, Kris Russell, Ron Hainsey, Darnell Nurse, Jeff Petry - 15
....
46. Jake Gardiner - 12
62. Travis Dermott - 11 (10 games)
135. Igor Ozhiganov -8
273. Martin Marincin - 5 (5 games)

I agree defencemen usually have higher numbers, but that usually is on par with their ability to generate offense as well.
Reilly being up there? Yeah that's to be expected. Hainsey? Zaitsev? You might expect a little less considering their
ability to generate offense. Also consider, there's at least six defencemen on every team, the Leafs blueliners are all
very high on this list.

Being fair to our guys a bit (they have played more games than most and our top 4 have played bigger minutes), lets just try that at giveaways/60 (50 min minimum)

18. Marincin
25. Zaitsev
28. Dermott
45. Rielly
48. Hainsey
54. Oz
65. Tavares
66. Leivo
103. Kadri
119. Marner
129. Gards

 

[Vaive50]

Update:

As much as anyone wants to pick at the Leafs defensive game, after the first 4 games, the Leafs now have allowed only 18 GA (not including empty netters) over their last 9 games, which comes to a GAA of 2.00, which is currently good enough for first place in the entire league, while being a +6 on shots in those 9 games.

However they've only scored 23 goals over those 9 games which comes to a GFA of 2.55 (Detroit is in 26th place with a GFA of 2.62). So it's offense that the Leafs need to work on (and they have the guys that can do it), they are working (as a team) on their defensive game just fine (Babcocks plan) and have Freddy back there to clean up most mistakes. Let's hope they can hold the Pens down to one goal again tonight like they did 2 weeks ago.

 

[Stephen]

The Leafs defense has looked a lot stronger lately, but their offensive game has dried up completely without Matthews. Kind of leads me to believe that the defense actually is pretty bad, because when they fix things on the back end they can generate any offense.

 

[bodechek]

The Leaf blue line has been terrific le for the past two season, but when you are outscoring your opponent, those things go unnoticed. Now that the offense has dried up, it is time to learn to play a little on the defensive side of the game

 

[Zybalto]

5v5 High Danger chances allowed/60 so far this year(min 50 minutes played, out of 212 eligible dmen)

49. Rielly
69. Hainsey
74. Zaitsev
96. Gardiner
139. Oz
210. Marincin
212. Dermott

Dermott is a possession beast that who is now the dman who allows the least amount of high danger chances while he is out there and say what you want about Marincin's giveaways, he's holding his own too.

One thing I really like about the top four names on this list is that they are facing QoC ranking higher than the HD chances they are allowing as well. D is really shaping up nice. Leafs overall are now in the top 10 for best team at preventing high danger chances while still in the top 3 at creating them.

 

[zeke]

30.4 shots against per game (#11)
2.79 goals against per game (#10)

 

[LeafGrief]

Defense is still continuing to play quite well in our own zone. Moving the puck up the ice has been a disaster and a huge cause for concern, but that's not what we were worried about at all, and is largely on the forwards/system for blowing the zone. Rielly is dominating, Gardiner has been quiet but solid (who would have predicted that lol), Dermott is a rising star, Zaitsev has bounced back and is playing okay, Hainsey is doing well, and Oz looks like an NHL regular.

 

[Dreakmur]

People were roasting Gardiner for his giveaways last year and now are making excuses for other players?

Not all giveaways are equal. There are some situations where a smart play would be counted as a giveaway.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

One of the stupidest stats is giveaways. A few years ago, Gardiner was 5th in giveaways. # 1 and # 2 were two of the "best" Dmen, Burns and Karlsson. Players that are trusted to carry the puck will always have the highest giveaways.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

All everybody in the league (including us Leaf fans) is talking about is how bad the Leafs defensive play is. We all know that Freddy is not his best in October so how do you explain our GAA during our last 7 games, not including the empty netter from the Pens and Blues, the Leafs have a total of 14 GA in those 7 games and that's against some lethal offense in the Caps, Pens, LA (of last year), and the Jets (twice).

So even with October Freddy, we have a GAA of 2.00 after our first 4 games of the season (those 4 games were a GAA of 4.00). Let's just hope the rest of the season will continue with the GAA of 2.00 or better yet, continues to improve. Even the shots on net are basically even with the Leafs outshooting the opposition 219 - 217.

Underrated on D, most teams have already caught a 5 goal + loss this season the way the scoring has gone up.

 

[Zybalto]

Some interesting stats on the penalty kill.

Powerplay rankings of some of the teams the Leafs have played so far:

1. Washington
2. Winnipeg (played twice)
3. St. Louis
9. Pittsburgh (played twice)
11. Ottawa
12. Dallas (played twice)

9/14 of our games have been against teams in the top 12 for powerplay success and yet the Leafs are sitting at 8th in the league on the PK. Why?

Maybe goalkeeping?

Leafs rank 19th for team save% on the PK. Doesnt seem to be a huge help.

The stat that stands out is that the Leafs are into the top ten for shots allowed/60 and high danger chances allowed/60 on the PK.

Massive props to Hainsey/Zaitsev/Dermott/Rielly/Hyman/Lindholm/Marner/Brown/Kapanen and the rest of the boys on the PK so far. Not only a solid PK but against some of the hardest comp in the league.

 

[moon111]

I'm not sure the Leaf forwards have made it easy for the defense to move the puck since Pat Burns.

And it seems like they never have a clue who their blue-liners are. If you're on forward and Thomas
Kaberle had the puck, sure expect a great outlet pass. But how many times did the Leafs have defensemen
who could really handle business in their own end, get the puck and be facing a situation where they
were forced to either try a Kaberle-type pass, ice the puck, or giveaway the puck? As a forward, they
should know it's Hal Gill, Luke Schenn, Mike Komasarek, Aki-Berg, Roman Polak, etc. ...you need to
provide an easier outlet for them. NHL teams win Cups with these types of 'plugs' on the bluelines,
because they fulfill a role, often just being the crease-clearing, board-crushing, stay-at-home types.
Even the more elite guys need help at times. The giveaway totals by Leaf defensemen are often
the fault of the forwards in my opinion.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Update:

As much as anyone wants to pick at the Leafs defensive game, after the first 4 games, the Leafs now have allowed only 18 GA (not including empty netters) over their last 9 games, which comes to a GAA of 2.00, which is currently good enough for first place in the entire league, while being a +6 on shots in those 9 games.

However they've only scored 23 goals over those 9 games which comes to a GFA of 2.55 (Detroit is in 26th place with a GFA of 2.62). So it's offense that the Leafs need to work on (and they have the guys that can do it), they are working (as a team) on their defensive game just fine (Babcocks plan) and have Freddy back there to clean up most mistakes. Let's hope they can hold the Pens down to one goal again tonight like they did 2 weeks ago.

I think a lot of this "terrible Leafs dmen" is from ill informed fans....deliberate or not. Maybe it's because they don't know the players, because generally they can't look at Leafs record, their GAA, their goal differential that could justify they have bad Dmen. Even the shots allowed this year by Leafs is down from last year.
Seems like when a see trades on this site, ANY RHD traded to the Leafs is better than the Leafs current group, and any 5/6/7 Dman from any team is better Leafs bottom group.

 

[ottomaddox]

Can you provide the other 7 players in the top 10?

You understand defenceman are going to be high because they start every play and basically get every draw from our own end. Giveaways will happen.

In 2016-2017 Karlsson, burns, doughty were in the top 10 for giveaways

Not saying any of our defence are better than the above. But numbers are skewed for defenceman. They breakout with the puck more than any forward.

As long as giveaways don't lead to goals then no one is angry.

I think Jake is playing pretty good this season. Not perfect, but decent enough to not lose the game on the end of his stick.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Leafs are 8th in cf% and 4th in xgf% so far. that's actually a lot better than I thought. this team will be scary when healthy

 

[DarkKnight]

Our defensive play is also benefiting from not having JVR and Bozak. It's a pleasure watching forwards actually capable of winning a board battle and getting a puck out. Maybe we've lost a little on the offensive side, but if you're hemmed in your end half the game does it really matter?

 

[saltming]

It's improved certainly, there's still personel issues and when we restrict the other team like we have recently we struggle to score ourselves, our sh% sucks over that period I'll admit, the 4th line is also waaaay better defensively which helps



Rielly is great, that doesn't make his partner the same thing however



The system? We still fire those long stretch passes a lot and Zaitsev/Hainsey struggleto get the puck out of our own zone with control



We may have got a little sidetracked

moving this here so we dont derail the prospects thread.
Break outs are now a mix of the short pass and the stretch. Seems a good idea as it keeps the other team guessing.
As for the organization in the defensive zone, 100 times better than it was at this time last year. The numbers seem to back it up.
As for sh% it was pretty good vs Pittsburgh so let's see where this all ends up

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

having a monster like Dermott really helps too