Is the Leafs Defensive play really that bad?

[Hogan86]

We have tightened things up against some of the best teams in the league these last 4 games. We gave up alot ot shots against the Jets last Wednesday but still walked away with the W. Freddie's record may only be 2-2 in his last 4 games, but with only 7 goals against and a save % of .945 against the Caps, Pens and Jets X2, we are playing a much more structured game. They aren't as exciting as those first couple games of the year, but the team has looked good. Now let's see how our team does with Matthew's out.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

It was never has bad as some Leaf fans have said or certainly not as bad Leafs haters say. I read a post where someone wrote that if the Leafs had given up the three goals in the third period (like the Jets did) we would have seen dozens of threads wanting to trade for Trouba. Faulk, Weber and Tanev. Never saw any posts that the Jets have to change all of their Dman, because of one bad third period.

 

[Gallagbi]

yep.....and buff is awesome - the jets were disastrous in the games he missed.

even the best dmen make awful plays.

You live with the bad because the good outweighs it so much. Similar to most D in the league.

 

[mammothCacti]

I feel the main issue with our defense is consistency more than anything.

Its not like our dcore is inherantly small anything. When they are on, they are winning puck battles and passes are smooth, but that only happens like 50-60% of the games.

If we could bring that up to 70-75% of the games, it would be alot more solid.

 

[Vaive50]

The October Freddy ?

First Oct here Freddy missed camp due to an injury and basically was cold and had to play himself into form.

Last year he had a poor Oct .

But one bad October doesn't make for October Freddy .

We're still sloppy but Freddy's playing well , noshame in giving a goalie credit the odd time .

I agree that I am using a small sample size but Freddy has let some softies in (that Pens goal). He is our best goalie since Belfour and it is great having him make so many great saves. He makes the team in front of him play better by being so reliable.

 

[daveleaf]

babs playing the **** out of Mo in the 3rd really helped tilt the ice.

I have no idea why babs finds it so hard to play his best players as much as every other coach plays theirs.

Simple. Its called a long season. It's a marathon and not a sprint. Your advanced stats infatuation should tell you that.

 

[daveleaf]

Forwards were helping out quite a bit more last night. Defence is a TEAM thing, not just d-men. Game 7 in the playoffs last year it became a d-man thing, the team hung them out to dry. Players were over used and tired.

They keep playing like that they will be fine.

 

[Vaive50]

We also do not live and die with our 6 defensemen; the forwards are just as responsible in the d zone. Tavares has definitely helped plus another year of experience under the belts of our young players. Our top 3 lines do not need to be sheltered unlike previous years.

I totally agree, that's why I used the term "Defensive Play" rather then "defensemen". With that loss to the Pens by one goal, the only talk was about how the Pens shut the Leafs offense down but I didn't hear anyone giving credit to the Leafs (as a team) ability to shut Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, etc. down to one goal (which was a PP and a fluky one).

 

[zeke]

Simple. Its called a long season. It's a marathon and not a sprint. Your advanced stats infatuation should tell you that.

so we're ceding the unarguable advantage to the other teams who play their best players more, based only on the theory that this will give our team an edge later in the season because they will be more rested.

any evidence out there that we have the energy edge come playoff time thanks to resting out best players all year?

 

[White Shadow]

so we're ceding the unarguable advantage to the other teams who play their best players more, based only on the theory that this will give our team an edge later in the season because they will be more rested.

any evidence out there that we have the energy edge come playoff time thanks to resting out best players all year?

Not 100% certain it stems from Herring but our head strength and conditioning coach comes from the San Antonio Spurs who are well known for the penchant to conserve their stars energy.

 

[White Shadow]

There are two things I would like to see more of on the defensive side.

1. The dmen making better outlet passes, especially the little 10 foot pass under the forecheckers stick to the centerman.
2. The strong side winger not blowing the zone so early.

Ok 3. The forwards curling a little closer to the dmen on the regroups.

 

[Vaive50]

so we're ceding the unarguable advantage to the other teams who play their best players more, based only on the theory that this will give our team an edge later in the season because they will be more rested.

any evidence out there that we have the energy edge come playoff time thanks to resting out best players all year?

I'm not sure if the Leafs will have that "Energy Edge" but maybe that was the Caps plan last season where they probably chose not to use too much energy to win the Presidents trophy as previous seasons (all ending in early playoff exits), their regular season record was 100% same as the Leafs (Leafs goal differential was +45, the Caps were +20). So the Caps unleashed their energy in the playoffs where the only team that pushed them to 7 games was the Bolts.

 

[zeke]

Ovechkin 20:09 --- Marner 18:58
Backstrom 19:40 -- Tavares 18:46
Kuznetsov 18:49 -- Matthews 17:22
Carlson 24:47 ----- Rielly 21:56

 

[White Shadow]

Ovechkin 20:09 --- Marner 18:58
Backstrom 19:40 -- Tavares 18:46
Kuznetsov 18:49 -- Matthews 17:22
Carlson 24:47 ----- Rielly 21:56

Why would you use anything other than EV TOI?

Matthews, Marner and JT all had more EV TOI than Ovi, Kuz and Backstrom heading into last nights game.

PP TOI is mainly determined by the referees. So maybe your beef is with SH TOI?

 

[zeke]

Why would you use anything other than EV TOI?

I thought the argument was that too many minutes "fatigued" players? what else would I use besides overall toi?

PP TOI is mainly determined by the referees.

nope.

PP TOI is determined by the coach. Every other team's top unit gets 3+ minutes per game, except for the Leafs.

 

[Zybalto]

Getting tough to even debate the powerplay argument when the Leafs are only getting 3:59 a game this year.

 

[Zybalto]

I know some of it is because we've scored a lot but that still seems really low for a skill team.

 

[Mr Hockey]

so we're ceding the unarguable advantage to the other teams who play their best players more, based only on the theory that this will give our team an edge later in the season because they will be more rested.

any evidence out there that we have the energy edge come playoff time thanks to resting out best players all year?

I think the leafs sport science department monitors peak performance levels of the players and passes the player usage info onto Babcock. That info is supposed to keeps the players at a high energy level all season long. But people want to troll Babcock about ATOI ...

 

[White Shadow]

I thought the argument was that too many minutes "fatigued" players? what else would I use besides overall toi?



nope.

PP TOI is determined by the coach. Every other team's top unit gets 3+ minutes per game, except for the Leafs.

Tough to get 3+ mins/game when you're 29th in the league in PP time as a team.

I do believe there was a conversation about optimal playing time on the season. I also think Dubas, Babcock and the sports science team were in that room.
Of the minutes most conserved, my guess is the compromise was reached on short handed minutes.

 

[Critical13]

We're 21st in High Danger Chances against/60, below Buffalo, Ottawa, Montreal, New York Islanders etc.

However, we're 4th in High Danger Chances for/60.

Needless to say, we're wining with skill and offence right now, and our D will need to tighten up a bit at some point.

 

[daveleaf]

so we're ceding the unarguable advantage to the other teams who play their best players more, based only on the theory that this will give our team an edge later in the season because they will be more rested.

any evidence out there that we have the energy edge come playoff time thanks to resting out best players all year?

If you are looking for evidence look at game 7 last year.

When top athletes, soldiers get physically and mentally tired, mental mistakes and level of play drop off. The symptom in distance training is known as over training, when the more input you try, the performance relates to an exponential decay. Winning the Presidents trophy is not what this team needs, one has to look at balancing final standing with how much rest you can give players. Saving energy now has an exponential reward later on. Playing Mariner and company two mins more a game now is irresponsible to me. To have long, productive year, which includes a lengthy playoff run and looking further, a healthier career is more important.

You seem to have this infatuation with just stats. While one can gain great insight from it, it doesn't tell the whole story. What Babcock is doing right now is brilliant. Why play guys at max output when they are winning with 2/3rd output?

It's a marathon and while a marathon cannot be won in your first 10k split, it can definitely be lost by expending too much energy in that period.

Think long term and stop micro analyzing.

 

[IPS]

Ovechkin 20:09 --- Marner 18:58
Backstrom 19:40 -- Tavares 18:46
Kuznetsov 18:49 -- Matthews 17:22
Carlson 24:47 ----- Rielly 21:56

Yup. Step #1 is to play your best players. Pittsburgh and Washington have the proven templates of ice-time distribution and the cups to back it up. If we're not getting enough PP time to get them up there, compensate with some more EV TOI.

 

[zeke]

If you are looking for evidence look at game 7 last year.

When top athletes, soldiers get physically and mentally tired, mental mistakes and level of play drop off. The symptom in distance training is known as over training, when the more input you try, the performance relates to an exponential decay. Winning the Presidents trophy is not what this team needs, one has to look at balancing final standing with how much rest you can give players. Saving energy now has an exponential reward later on. Playing Mariner and company two mins more a game now is irresponsible to me. To have long, productive year, which includes a lengthy playoff run and looking further, a healthier career is more important.

You seem to have this infatuation with just stats. While one can gain great insight from it, it doesn't tell the whole story. What Babcock is doing right now is brilliant. Why play guys at max output when they are winning with 2/3rd output?

It's a marathon and while a marathon cannot be won in your first 10k split, it can definitely be lost by expending too much energy in that period.

Think long term and stop micro analyzing.

are you saying that we looked more rested and energetic in game 7 last year?

 

[IPS]

If you are looking for evidence look at game 7 last year.

When top athletes, soldiers get physically and mentally tired, mental mistakes and level of play drop off. The symptom in distance training is known as over training, when the more input you try, the performance relates to an exponential decay. Winning the Presidents trophy is not what this team needs, one has to look at balancing final standing with how much rest you can give players. Saving energy now has an exponential reward later on. Playing Mariner and company two mins more a game now is irresponsible to me. To have long, productive year, which includes a lengthy playoff run and looking further, a healthier career is more important.

You seem to have this infatuation with just stats. While one can gain great insight from it, it doesn't tell the whole story. What Babcock is doing right now is brilliant. Why play guys at max output when they are winning with 2/3rd output?

It's a marathon and while a marathon cannot be won in your first 10k split, it can definitely be lost by expending too much energy in that period.

Think long term and stop micro analyzing.

So the recent cup winners just aren't thinking long-term eh? Damn if only they would stop micro-analyzing.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Yup. Step #1 is to play your best players. Pittsburgh and Washington have the proven templates of ice-time distribution and the cups to back it up. If we're not getting enough PP time to get them up there, compensate with some more EV TOI.

the only thing the Caps/Pen do differently is use just 1 PP unit for almost 2 minutes... why do you keep pushing this? let it go, you are wrong