Is Stamkos a HOF lock?

[ryerockarola]

You can post all the numbers you want but the fact is still that Bure (especially at his VAN peak which means circa 92–95) was amazing at driving the play and creating his own chances from nothing, crashing the net for a goal and often flying into the end board as a result of it. Stylistically Bure and Stamkos are not similar at all, Stamkos is more like Brett Hull.

A better career you say? What in the world has Stamkos ever won except the 2016 World Cup where he had 2 points in 6 games on a veritable All-Star team? Stamkos has been a consistent playoff failure. Bure has one of the best non-Smythe signature playoff runs ever. He had a 16 game long point streak in 94 (second best ever in a single playoffs behind Bryan Trottier's 18 games on the 1981 dynasty Islanders), scored the game winning OT goal in game 7 against Calgary (plus two assists, one of them tying up the game with 2 minutes to go) and then bulldozed Dallas (literally, ask Churla) and Toronto on his way to the SC finals where he helped VAN to game 7 against a heavily favored Presidents' Trophy winning team (not against an expansion team as in last years playoffs).

Bure was also voted best forward (with 9 goals in 6 games) at the first NHL including best-on-best Olympics in 1998 in front of players like Selänne, Jagr, Lindros, Forsberg, Sundin, Sakic, Yzerman, Fedorov, Modano, Roenick, Lafontaine and Steven Stamk... sorry, I mean Brett Hull.

As for Hart voting I can't take it too seriously when Adam Graves gets the most Hart votes of all wingers in the whole league in 1993–94 after having scored 79 points in 84 games on a team with prime Messier, Leetch, Zubov running a clock work power play (Graves didn't outscore any of these guys), et cetera, while Bure had 60 goals/107 points and 37 more points than the next best forward on his team while missing a handful of games. Rangers won the Presidents' Trophy already two years prior (1991–92) with Graves scoring 26 goals and 59 points....

Ask Churla is right haha

 

[Passchendaele]

His playoff numbers aren't that bad.

He's faaaaar removed from Keith Primeau.

 

[The Panther]

Of course all the bolts come to overrate him

No show in the playoffs and no cup? Good luck with that

To clarify, you're arguing that Steve Yzerman by 1995 wasn't a Hall of Famer?

By age 29, Stamkos has one Finals' appearance (lost in six) and has been to the Conference final three times. By age 29, Yzerman had one Finals' appearance (was swept) and had been to the Conference final three times (but in one he barely played).

By age 29, Stamkos has two 2nd-team All Star selections. By age 29, Yzerman had none.

By age 29, Stamkos has two Richard trophies, while by 29 Yzerman had one Pearson (a highly dubious one, and at a time when it had considerably less 'weight' than now).


Also, how much playoff success did Marcel Dionne have? Phil Housley?

 

[bobbyorr04]

Not anymore

 

[MikeK]

No

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Will be a first ballot HOFer

 

[b in vancouver]

Roughly 40 players get in every 10 years.

For those of you saying no, list the 40 players that rank ahead of Stammer over his first 10 seasons.

40 players do not get in every 10 years. I think there's only been 4 (maybe 5) years in the history of The Hall that they've inducted 4 players.
Builders, women, International players, coaches, GMs - also make it into the 4 per year.

There's been a bit of an uptick in the 200s - but it's less than 30 per decade - and we'll be hitting a lull with recent players as there's not a lot of players that entered the league between '94 and '02 that are going to make it in.

 

[Sam Spade]

stamkos isnt as far behind ovi career wise as most people think tbh

Stamkos is so far behind Ovechkin, after 11 seasons, and overall, he needs a telescope to see him.

And Stamkos better not be a lock for the HOF as of today because if he is the HOF is pretty desperate.

There's not enough superstar to fill the Hall then.

Then oh well. An NHL player doesn't have to go into the HOF every year.

 

[Krewe]

He's not even at 480 yet.

Who else besides ovi is a better goal-scorer over his career. Even post-injury he is a top-5 goal scorer and for the first few years of his career he and Ovi were head and shoulders above the rest. Despite his injuries he is 50g ahead of anyone else not named Ovechkin in the league since he was drafted. On a g/gp basis he is also way above the rest

 

[RyderRocks73]

Who else besides ovi is a better goal-scorer over his career. Even post-injury he is a top-5 goal scorer and for the first few years of his career he and Ovi were head and shoulders above the rest. Despite his injuries he is 50g ahead of anyone else not named Ovechkin in the league since he was drafted. On a g/gp basis he is also way above the rest

He's in charge and he's not even at 480 yet. How's he gonna get to the round 2 if he's doing that?

 

[b in vancouver]

He's on track but is by no means a lock.
You don't even have to look further than The Lightning and Lecavalier, a first overall whom was one of the best centres in the league and people would've had as a lock at the same age to see how things can go south.

Currently I'd say there's 9 locks from that generation of players - although they're all a couple years older than Stamkos. Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, P. Kane, Bergeron, Doughty, Kopitar and Toews (whether we agree on if he deserves it or not) - so that's pretty much three years.

then Stamkos is in amongst -
Getzlaf, Perry, E. Staal, Burns, Subban, Backstrom, Giroux, J. Benn, Hedman, Subban, Weber, Kessel, Fleury, Price, ... Holtby, Tavares, Duchene, Rask, Marchand, etc. - I'm sure I'm missing guys as this was off the top of my head. Some of these guys will get in - some won't.

- He should make it when all is said and done but he needs some more good years.

 

[The Macho King]

He's on track but is by no means a lock.
You don't even have to look further than The Lightning and Lecavalier, a first overall whom was one of the best centres in the league and people would've had as a lock at the same age to see how things can go south.

Currently I'd say there's 9 locks from that generation of players - although they're all a couple years older than Stamkos. Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, P. Kane, Bergeron, Doughty, Kopitar and Toews (whether we agree on if he deserves it or not) - so that's pretty much three years.

then Stamkos is in amongst -
Getzlaf, Perry, E. Staal, Burns, Subban, Backstrom, Giroux, J. Benn, Hedman, Subban, Weber, Kessel, Fleury, Price, ... Holtby, Tavares, Duchene, Rask, Marchand, etc. - I'm sure I'm missing guys as this was off the top of my head. Some of these guys will get in - some won't.

- He should make it when all is said and done but he needs some more good years.

Vinny's resume is no where near as good as Stamkos'.

This is an awful take. He's a lock. Find one single player that has his combination of goal-scoring finishes+point scoring finishes that is not in the Hall.

You can't.

There isn't one.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Not yet, IMO ... needs to have another 4-5 beauty seasons

 

[b in vancouver]

Vinny's resume is no where near as good as Stamkos'.

This is an awful take. He's a lock. Find one single player that has his combination of goal-scoring finishes+point scoring finishes that is not in the Hall.

You can't.

There isn't one.

I think Stammer is an amazing player. - I said I think he gets in, and he should pretty easily once it all settles and I think he'll be first ballot once he retires - but he's not there yet.

If he retired this summer - I don't know if he's getting into The Hall. If he did, he'd be waiting years.
If he gets injured or becomes a 50 point player and only puts up another 200 points in his career, he gets in but that'd pretty much be Paul Kariya - whom waited. As of today he's a lesser version of Bure - whom waited. Lindros waited a decade.

He only has 393 g, 373a for 766 career points. Career totals matter and his numbers don't get you into the HHOF unless there's something else.

The only modern forwards to get in with less points are Bob Gainey, Clarke Gillies and Cam Neely.

In fact the only modern defence men whom have gotten in with less points are Pronger (70 less) Niedermeyer (20 less) Langway, Serge Savard and Guy Lapointe.

 

[Neutrinos]

Most agree that Stamkos is a future Hall of Famer, but what about Kovalchuk?

Stamkos
0.53 GPG, 1.03 PPG in 746 games

Kovalchuk
0.49 GPG, 0.97 PPG in 880 games

 

[MadLuke]

He's on track but is by no means a lock.
You don't even have to look further than The Lightning and Lecavalier

Lecavalier was a clear destined to the hall that failed short, but it started to go south for Lecavalier with way less elite season under is belt.

Lecavalier has only 2 top 10 finish, 2006-2007 (3rd), 2007-2007 (6th), he was an top elite and healthy player for only 2 season in the league. He was top 10 in ppg one time.

That would be a good point in 2011-2012 for Stamkos, he was not lock by then. Stamkos resume being so much above Lecavalier do show why many thinks he is a lock.

Goal finish
Stamkos: 1,1,2,2,2,4,7
Lecaval: 1,9

Point finish
Stamkos: 2,2,5,5
Lecaval: 3,6

Hart Finish
Stamkos: 2,6,8,11,11
Lecaval: 4,17


About equal playoff wise.

Stamkos more than double Lecavalier in elite seasons.

I suspect Kovalchuk bailing on team / important hockey people could make is road to the hall quite more complicated.

 

[dr robbie]

If it was my Hall of Fame, he'd be borderline, but probably in.

The actual HoF is fairly lenient and loves stars of the league. He'll get in. Might wait a couple years, but he'll get in.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Some of you guys saying he only gets in because the HOF is lenient. Okay, lets say they only let in 2 guys a year. That's 20 guys over 10 years. Lets look at Stamkos numbers over the last 10 years

2nd in goals scored (50 goals ahead of 3rd)
5th in points
4th in points per game (behind only McDavid, Crosby, and Malkin)

2 Rockets including a 60 goal season (48 at even strength)

Can you name 20 guys that get in ahead of that? Can you name 10?

 

[ted2019]

That's no insult.

Top-10 finishes in points
Stamkos 2, 2, 5, 5, 9
Bure 2, 3, 5, 7

Top-10 finishes in goals
Stamkos 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 4, 7
Bure 1, 1, 1, 3, 5

Hart voting
Stamkos 2, 6, 8, 11, 11
Bure 3, 9, 12

In fact, Bure is getting all possible credit for his talent and the time he missed when compared with Stamkos. Looking at career numbers, it begins to feel as if Stamkos had a better career.

Bure could hit and be as dirty as anyone out on the ice. Stamkos couldn't break a carton of eggs.

 

[b in vancouver]

Some of you guys saying he only gets in because the HOF is lenient. Okay, lets say they only let in 2 guys a year. That's 20 guys over 10 years. Lets look at Stamkos numbers over the last 10 years

2nd in goals scored (50 goals ahead of 3rd)
5th in points
4th in points per game (behind only McDavid, Crosby, and Malkin)

2 Rockets including a 60 goal season (48 at even strength)

Can you name 20 guys that get in ahead of that? Can you name 10?

Stamkos is an amazing player and will pass a lot of the guys ahead of him in the queue in short order. And is better than a lot of them but there's still a lot of hockey left to be played.
I don't want to argue against Stammer as he's one of my favourites and will get in - but if he fell off the map or retired today, he definitely isn't a lock as he's still catching guys career-wise.
I ignored the older guys like Thornton and Chara and the younger guys like McDavid.

Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, P. Kane, Keith, Bergeron, Kopitar, Doughty, Karlsson, Toews is 10

- then there's still all of these guys whom are either ahead of him career-wise or would catch him if he was gone. Have 10 of these players done more career-wise than him at the moment?

E. Staal - 200 more points, Stanley Cup,
Getzlaf - 150 more points, Stanley Cup
Perry - Hart, Rocket, Stanley Cup, most International hardware
Backstrom - 100 more points, Stanley Cup
Weber
Hedman - Norris
Kucherov - Art Ross (most likely Hart)
Hall - Hart
Benn - Art Ross
Burns - Norris
Subban - Norris
Price - Hart, Vezina
Holtby - Vezina, Stanley Cup
Bobrovsky - 2x Vezina
Quick - Smythe
Fleury - Cups and wins
Kessel - 50 more points, 2x Stanley Cups
Giroux
Tavares
Duchene
Seguin
Marchand
Rask - Vezina
Letang - 2X Stanley Cup
Rinne

 

[4chandler]

I mean Sundin's in (and I'm a Leafs fan), Sundin never won anything that matters, Leafs had there best playoff run in the playoffs with Sundin injured with a broken wrist for the majority of it.

Sundin was top ten in scoring once as a Leafs and had a 100+ point season in 92-93 but 20 other players including Craig Janney had triple digits that year. It wasn't all that special.

If Sundin who really was a consistent 30 goal scorer and nothing more, was never a part of anything that resembled a President Trophy team is in, how is Stamkos not a lock.

Making the hockey hall of fame isn't that hard, Cam Neely is in for one 50 goal year.

 

[wetcoast]

I feel like after his first four seasons he hasn't been at HOF level. But in those first four he has two Rockets including a 60 goal season.

What about his 5th season is not at a HHOF level?

2nd in goals and points that year.

 

[Bleedred]

To me, an HOF lock is someone that if they retired today and never played another game again, they'd be in the HOF.

Stamkos is not a player that I look at and say that if he retired today at 29 years old, he'd be in the HOF ever.

Is he on pace for the HOF? Yes. Would he be in if he retired today? I really don't think. I think he'll get in, because I think he's gonna play a lot more years. He's probably got another 7-10 years left in the league, maybe even more. But I'd like to see the list of players that are in the HOF that didn't play past 29 years old. Bobby Orr played fewer games and got in, so did Cam Neely and Pavel Bure. I think Stamkos has also just barely passed Eric Lindros in games played too. All of them did play until at least 30 years old, but played fewer games than Stamkos.

The only players of this generation that I'd say would have been HOF locks if they never played a game after 29 years old are Crosby and probably Ovechkin. Malkin and Patrick Kane might have been close. And as controversial as this always is, Jonathan Toews might have also been close to a lock by 29. He gets bonus points for the 3 cups captained thing and all that.

 

[Bleedred]

Stamkos is an amazing player and will pass a lot of the guys ahead of him in the queue in short order. And is better than a lot of them but there's still a lot of hockey left to be played.
I don't want to argue against Stammer as he's one of my favourites and will get in - but if he fell off the map or retired today, he definitely isn't a lock as he's still catching guys career-wise.
I ignored the older guys like Thornton and Chara and the younger guys like McDavid.

Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, P. Kane, Keith, Bergeron, Kopitar, Doughty, Karlsson, Toews is 10

- then there's still all of these guys whom are either ahead of him career-wise or would catch him if he was gone. Have 10 of these players done more career-wise than him at the moment?

E. Staal - 200 more points, Stanley Cup,
Getzlaf - 150 more points, Stanley Cup
Perry - Hart, Rocket, Stanley Cup, most International hardware
Backstrom - 100 more points, Stanley Cup
Weber
Hedman - Norris
Kucherov - Art Ross (most likely Hart)
Hall - Hart
Benn - Art Ross
Burns - Norris
Subban - Norris
Price - Hart, Vezina
Holtby - Vezina, Stanley Cup
Bobrovsky - 2x Vezina
Quick - Smythe
Fleury - Cups and wins
Kessel - 50 more points, 2x Stanley Cups
Giroux
Tavares
Duchene
Seguin
Marchand
Rask - Vezina
Letang - 2X Stanley Cup
Rinne

Agreed.

Funny thing is that of the 25 guys that you just listed, I think 19 of them are already older than Stamkos and I'm not sure how many of them would be HOF locks if they retired today. Getzlaf and Staal are probably the closest on that list.

And there's also the older guys like Thornton, Chara, Lundqvist, Luongo and Keith, who all only have a few years left at most and Luongo may have already played his last game and Thornton may play his last ever game today, though I think he still probably plays one more year, maybe even two.

 

[Goalie guy]

To clarify, you're arguing that Steve Yzerman by 1995 wasn't a Hall of Famer?

By age 29, Stamkos has one Finals' appearance (lost in six) and has been to the Conference final three times. By age 29, Yzerman had one Finals' appearance (was swept) and had been to the Conference final three times (but in one he barely played).

By age 29, Stamkos has two 2nd-team All Star selections. By age 29, Yzerman had none.

By age 29, Stamkos has two Richard trophies, while by 29 Yzerman had one Pearson (a highly dubious one, and at a time when it had considerably less 'weight' than now).


Also, how much playoff success did Marcel Dionne have? Phil Housley?

Yzerman changed his game not focusing on scoring and playing a better all around game! He also set the standard for toughness in his team playing threw pain to win. And was no doubt the leader of his team. They are not even in the same tier and its not close. Does he get in yes I think so, but don't act like Stamkos has done more for his team cause its just flat wrong.