Is Seth Jones a top 10 D-Man?

Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by olli, Mar 12, 2018.

?

Is Seth Jones a top 10 D-Man?

  1. Yes

    98 vote(s)
    63.2%
  2. No

    57 vote(s)
    36.8%
View Users: View Users
  1. AnishLoomba

    AnishLoomba Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    17,832
    Likes Received:
    4,573
    Trophy Points:
    141
    ironic coming from a ducks fan.

    the bolded would be your inter-state rival sjs's marc-edouard vlasic or your other inter-state rival lak's drew doughty
     
    Kcb12345 likes this.
  2. Mrb1p

    Mrb1p PRICERSTOPDAPUCK

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    43,131
    Likes Received:
    5,399
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Citizen of the world
    Well, sorry. Obviously there's a chance he busts... But it's not a big chance, right ?

    Anyway, Dahlin is a better D at this point than any other D drafted since... man i don't even know. Hedman was really close to him, but I think he's still better.
     
  3. Kcb12345

    Kcb12345 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2017
    Messages:
    3,124
    Likes Received:
    2,117
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Gender:
    Male
    Certainly not a big chance he busts, but there's always at least a chance. Some dmen just never develop properly for this level, but I doubt he will have much of an issue. I guess we will see how good he really is soon enough
     
  4. Mrb1p

    Mrb1p PRICERSTOPDAPUCK

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    43,131
    Likes Received:
    5,399
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Citizen of the world
    There's also the fact that he's currently playing against men in his league, it's not as if he's in the CHL or something.
     
  5. mikeyp24

    mikeyp24 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    4,852
    Likes Received:
    717
    Trophy Points:
    103
    He plays like one. He is not defensive minded. Guys like Jones are very defensive focused but can read a play and jump in and if he doesn't score still be the first man back on D. You don't see that from Subban or Ghost.

    And you keep acting like I don't see full games because I suggest a way for you to see what you are clearly intentionally refusing to acknowledge. If you see a great pass and goal do you tell someone they don't know that the pass was great because they told you to watch the clip instead of watching the full.game up until that play? Go find similar examples of Jones getting walked to prove me wrong instead of just pretending to be a superior game watcher.
     
    Last edited by moderator spiny norman: Mar 13, 2018
    Index likes this.
  6. triggrman

    triggrman Registered User

    Joined:
    May 8, 2002
    Messages:
    24,733
    Likes Received:
    723
    Trophy Points:
    215
    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    Home Page:
    You should watch Nashville more.


    Saying Subban is a 4th defender is far from the truth. I've watched about every game he's played. I also played defense for 35+ years so I watch defenders more than most. I've also watched Jones, and I'd agree that he's very close to the top 10 if he's not already.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
    WubbaLubbaDubDub and dim jim like this.
  7. DominikBokkFan

    DominikBokkFan How compassionate and empathetic are people truly?

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    Messages:
    8,085
    Likes Received:
    1,239
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Toronto
    I agree Klingberg is better, but not Ghost. Elite season thus far but he hasn't proven it in the past despite insanely easy comp and Ozone starts. By proven I mean I wouldn't even say that he was a 1D in the past.
     
    Cotton likes this.
  8. Lebowski

    Lebowski El Duderino

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    15,846
    Likes Received:
    2,247
    Trophy Points:
    156
    What you're describing Subban as really couldn't be applied to his style of play since, I don't know, 2013-2014?

    You're really, really out of touch on this one. When Preds and Habs fans alike call you out on it, you might want to rethink your position.

    As for Jones, he's a beast. I think his ceiling could be as high as Hedman's, and as of right now I wouldn't have any issue with someone ranking him in their top 10.
     
    Leonhard Euler likes this.
  9. AnishLoomba

    AnishLoomba Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    17,832
    Likes Received:
    4,573
    Trophy Points:
    141
    bruh don't you know he stays up all the time to watch all the games:sarcasm:
     
    mikeyp24 likes this.
  10. mikeyp24

    mikeyp24 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    4,852
    Likes Received:
    717
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Honestly he is by far one of the most underrated. But he plays on a team of underrated talent. Kesler for years was never truly respected as a Selke contender IMO deserving much more then 1 in his prime, Fowler has always been a great defender constantly understood, Silfverberg has never been respected value wise from what I've seen fans offer for him in the trade section (haven't seen him much this year though and I've seen some fans down on him though but my comment stands for past years).
     
  11. dim jim

    dim jim Passing the Torch

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    53,382
    Likes Received:
    3,513
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Location:
    Vancouver
    If you were allowed to stay up and watch those players play you would realize that Lindholm has surpassed Vlasic.
     
    UnfinishedBusiness likes this.
  12. AnishLoomba

    AnishLoomba Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    17,832
    Likes Received:
    4,573
    Trophy Points:
    141
    ironic coming from a casucks fan talking about superior defensive dman. what's your take on chris tanev? or better yet, erik gudbranson?:sarcasm:
     
  13. dim jim

    dim jim Passing the Torch

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    53,382
    Likes Received:
    3,513
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Location:
    Vancouver
    If you don’t think Subban is capable of playing hard minutes then you clearly don’t know how to evaluate defenders, look at his deployment his ability to produce good results in tough defensive deployment is absurdly good.

    Citing youtube clips as the basis of your argument just makes your argument even more laughable. So many misconceptions about this player, he’s an excellent two-way defender and top 5 in the NHL at his position.
     
  14. mikeyp24

    mikeyp24 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    4,852
    Likes Received:
    717
    Trophy Points:
    103
    I also think Vlassic is EXTREMELY underrated and last time I mentioned that in a top 10 D thread multiple people attacked me and said I don't know hockey and saying Vlassic made them realize my opinions were invalid.
     
    AnishLoomba likes this.
  15. dim jim

    dim jim Passing the Torch

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    53,382
    Likes Received:
    3,513
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Some of us actually watch other teams play, so those aren’t the only players I watch.

    Chris Tanev is an excellent defensive player and if you can’t see that you’re once again wrong. He led the NHL in shot suppression from 2014-2016, but yeah I’m sure your 5 games of viewing a season from the player is enough to debunk that. It’s also even more hilriois considering I’ve been watching the Canucks you know for more than one season, they were one of the best teams in the NHL a few years ago and lead the NHL in goals against. When’s the last time your team did that?

    Gudbranson is an absolute turd and is one of the worst defenders in the NHL.
     
    Vali Maki Sushi likes this.
  16. AnishLoomba

    AnishLoomba Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    17,832
    Likes Received:
    4,573
    Trophy Points:
    141
    that's the most relevant thing you've said and it just about sums up your argument
     
  17. dim jim

    dim jim Passing the Torch

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    53,382
    Likes Received:
    3,513
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Yeah I’m sorry that I made a type on my mobile device. You’re honestly such a useless poster to engage with, you never debunk anything just point towards something completely irrelevant in the discussion and post a one line “zinger” which is usually an ad hominem.

    Instead of engaging in your childish vendetta with me back your claim up, can you find any metrics that support Vlasic being better than Lindholm at this point?
     
  18. AnishLoomba

    AnishLoomba Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    17,832
    Likes Received:
    4,573
    Trophy Points:
    141
    funny how you say this yet you keep responding to me.
     
  19. mikeyp24

    mikeyp24 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    4,852
    Likes Received:
    717
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Why does citing evidence make a valid argument laughable?

    Lawyer: Judge I now would like to show the jury the security footage of the defendant attacking the victem in the parking lot

    Jury: LOL the fact you are using security footage of the crime as evidence makes this case even more laughable

    NO ONE is saying watch YouTube clips to determine player ability. The funniest part is people who are saying LOL VIDEO PROOF *CRYING LAUGGING EMOJI*!!!1!!1 are saying look at zone deployment stats and other advanced stats when it's a known fact that offensive defensemen thrive in advanced stats while there is no catagory that really elivates Defensive minded guys. CBJ fans had this argument internally over Murray and I think it was Nuti recently. Watching the games and extended highlights are the best way to determine a players abilities because you can actually see their skill with your own eyes and having information on their partner is also an extremely important note because chemistry/lack of, if they're playing on their natural side, if they haven't had a stable partner, etc...
     
  20. dim jim

    dim jim Passing the Torch

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    53,382
    Likes Received:
    3,513
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Do you ever get tired of deflecting? Why even post on a hockey forum if you’re not going to ever discuss hockey and just engage in “he said, she said!1!1!1” garbage?

    I asked you to create an argument to back your claim up, and you just deflected as usual. Why even bother responding then?

    Spamming the forum with your one liners.
    Do you even understand how analytics work? If an offensive player is deployed in hard deployment he gets absolutely eviscerated. If you were to put a defender like Tyson Barrie and fed him ~55% defensive zone starts along with playing against tough competition his analytics would be absolutely awful.

    If a player gets put in a tough defensive situation and his team out plays and out scores his opposition how could you conclude that this player is not good defensively? Again YouTube clips are an insanely ridiculous way to analyze players as you could make a highlight real for a guy like Sven Baertschi to make him look like a super stat, it’s just an incredibly skewed and cherry picked picture.
     
  21. mikeyp24

    mikeyp24 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    4,852
    Likes Received:
    717
    Trophy Points:
    103
    To be fair while I dont think Tanev is a top 10D in the league I think he's a top 60 defensive D. Where most say he's a 2nd pair guy or over rated I'd argue he's a great defensive minded #2. Fan of his since he first came up and stayed up which was... Maybe Torts first year or AVs last year? My memory of the Nucks in that time range are kinda merged together because that was the end of my time.living there part time and not watching as much as I had.
     
  22. mikeyp24

    mikeyp24 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    4,852
    Likes Received:
    717
    Trophy Points:
    103
    The problem with analytics in a team sport is as long as 4 people do their job 1 person can be ok. It's not like baseball where advanced stats 100% make sense and can be heavily relied upon. In basketball and hockey as much as it CAN be accurate there are outliers and there are guys who should have decent numbers because they are good but they get even better numbers because the team or system around them. A defensive team like NASH with Rinne I 100% believe Subban has killer numbers. But I also believe that Ellis on say... MTL instead of Weber ends up with waaaaaay dofferent numbers then in Nashville. Because while he's still a good defender without that team and system he's a good top 4 defender.

    I've said multiple times Subban is a good defender and he is ELITE offensively as a D... I don't no why calling someone elite at part of their game and ok at the other is a attack or diss?
     
  23. CanadianSharks

    CanadianSharks Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2012
    Messages:
    28,550
    Likes Received:
    993
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Subban plays on a shutdown pairing. He absolutely excels in any role he's placed in. If you want a goal, few d-men can do what he does with the puck. If you're up a goal, you want him defending. He's an outstanding two way d-man. So if I show you a YouTube highlight or two, you'll change your mind? Sounds like that's what you're suggesting.
     
  24. CanadianSharks

    CanadianSharks Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2012
    Messages:
    28,550
    Likes Received:
    993
    Trophy Points:
    139
    That is a bad example and not relevant to this discussion. One tiny snapshot in time does not necessarily represent all the rest of the time. He has some odd turnovers sometimes. Doesn't change the fact that he's relied on and excels in defensive situations.
     
    dim jim likes this.
  25. mikeyp24

    mikeyp24 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    4,852
    Likes Received:
    717
    Trophy Points:
    103
    So you would rather have him then any of the other 3 preds as a shut down D? Over any of the top 5 guys I picked?
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"