You touch on something I've been wondering about. I think that, without a doubt, the NHL would rather Subban get it. The NHL has been so gung-ho on attracting new markets of fans, and having a young black kid win a huge award like the Norris would be marketing gold.
Is PK Subban the Norris Front-runner?
- Thread starter Dutchess
- Start date
You touch on something I've been wondering about. I think that, without a doubt, the NHL would rather Subban get it. The NHL has been so gung-ho on attracting new markets of fans, and having a young black kid win a huge award like the Norris would be marketing gold.
Hackett
BAKAMAN
You normally have to pay your dues to win this award, meaning multiple nominations, unless you are so far ahead of the pack that you cannot be ignored. Subban also has geography going for him. If he was playing in phoenix or the west coast, not enough people would have seen him enough to give him the vote.
Its an interesting thought, but I doubt he wins it this year.
Its an interesting thought, but I doubt he wins it this year.
Is that really a surprise though? Any chance we had of getting a discount on Subban went out the window when Bergevin used his negotiations to focus on short term cap space over long term.
Even if he doesn't win the Norris he's getting Doughty money.
There are players that have the ability to inspire an entire generation to play a certain sport. Look what Tiger has done for golf for instance.
Subban has that swagger to get African American/Canadian kids interested in hockey. Not to mention all the juicy stories available with his 2 brothers playing and his dad being a community figure in Rexdale. The NHL would be foolish to not take advantage of this.
The season isn't over yet. I'd argue that Suter and Subban are the front runners for sure, but it's hard to say that Suter is a lock over PK right now, heavy minutes and all.
It's a two horse race and we are entering the final leg.
I think we can all agree that as long as he keeps playing like this, and realistically he has room to improve, paying Drew Doughty money is nothing but a good thing.
If he keeps this up there's no reason to not pay him like that.
It would be nice to be able to get a discount on your homegrown players..but in today's NHL it's rarely the case anymore. You get what you pay for.
i think if MB was around the habs since PK joined, he would of never gave him that "bridge" deal and would of "gambled" on giving him a longer term contract, with more money, and we would of avoided a 7+ mil cap hit for 14/15. 
(pretty much the years i think we will be prime contenders, where cap space for depth will be highly useful)
(pretty much the years i think we will be prime contenders, where cap space for depth will be highly useful)
Sorinth
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2013
- 11,037
- 5,532
Over the last 20 games Subban has averaged over 25min a game. In all he will have been sheltered for the first 14 games only which means for 66% of his season he had heavy minutes. And it's not like he racked up his points while being sheltered, his ppg has jumped significantly since his ice time shot up.
So it will come down to does being sheltered for a third of your games the games cancel out the big points lead PK has?
I find this argument to be non sense. Let's ignore that he is leading in goals for defensemen. Let's ignore that he is a PPG defensemen this season. Let's forget that he has a much better defensive squad around him. Let's forget that he is playing lights out defensively.
Oh but he doesn't play 27 mins a game, so he can't win. Honestly if he doesn't win because of TOI, I will question the people who vote. Sutter has not been better than Subban to say his TOI is worth more.
Last edited:
JustAHabFan
Registered User
- Apr 8, 2008
- 7,711
- 2,710
Totally agreed with you. TSN Hockey Tonight analysts said similar thing last night. They said that we should look at how Subban played the game and there is no doubt that Subban was the best defenseman this year.
- Sep 6, 2006
- 8,840
- 8,443
That's a very interesting way to look at it, great point.
I just don't see him getting it this year myself but I also didn't see Karlsson getting it last year, so who knows.
It's more related to quality of competition, which is what i mean by "heavier"
We will see. i just think that if PK was being played in a role similar to last year, we wouldn't even be debating this.
Minnesota has no other D pairing that can take any minutes. To say Subban isn't the best because he plays on a better team is ludicrous. I just don't see how Sutter is better than Subban. Sure he may be more valuable, since Subban plays on the better team, with better D, but that still doesn't mean Sutter is better.
Subban is playing great hockey, putting up points, defending, carrying the puck. He is everywhere on the ice creating chances, defending chances. TOI should not be a factor by any stretch. It is simply a non factor when you actually watch both Sutter and Subban play.
Saundies
Fly On The Wall
What Subban is going to make if he wins the Norris isn't an issue. If you have a Norris defenseman winning D on your team, aren't you going to want to keep him around and pay him whatever he wants? Who has Montreal signed in the FA market in the last million bajillion years that we "need" this cap space depth for? Cammy? He's gone. Gio? Gallagher's already made him expendable pretty much.
Subban is ours. We picked him, developed him, and now he's a superstar like it should be. We give him whatever he wants (obviously realistic... not 9 or 10 million dollars a year) and deal with the cap implications later. To say you don't want him to win the Norris because he's going to make a bunch of money from it is just plain wrong.
Subban is ours. We picked him, developed him, and now he's a superstar like it should be. We give him whatever he wants (obviously realistic... not 9 or 10 million dollars a year) and deal with the cap implications later. To say you don't want him to win the Norris because he's going to make a bunch of money from it is just plain wrong.
You have obviously never seen him play this year I'm sure
He's proven to be twice the dman he was last year his defensive game has become really something to watch, I always knew he would be good but not as good as he's playing he's picked up every aspect of his game from last year ten fold.
We are talking about PK ?
pretty much every game. Did i say he didn't improve from last year? Are you saying he didn't he have different role last year then this year? Did i ever actually say that Sutter is a better player then PK?
Not my problem if you guys think that winning a trophy in a given category automatically means that you are the best at that category. It's award that's relatively subjective, based on some parameters. Sutter has been given opportunity to shine on most of not all parameters, while PK has done the same, he was "sheltered" for good part of the season, not playing vs top lines. Which is important parameter for the Noris; playing vs the best. (NOT saying he can't, but saying that he didn't, which is a coaching decision, not a decision based on fact that PK wouldn't be able to achive, which he would and is and can and has)
While trophies are fun, and good for fan-penis-measuring contests with other fanbases, they are just indicators of certain players belonging to the "elite" (of that year at least). Being nominated or winning it, is basically the same thing IMO.
That will be all, given how defensive all of you get, and making assumptions that im saying Sutter is a better player then PK; vague conversations you can have between yourselves.
(on side note, funny how when PK was in contract negos, and i was calling for 5++ years 5++ mills per i was getting shat on by majority of fans, on hf and in real life, and now he's reached god status, in less then 40 games
)
Last edited:
SB164
Registered User
“It’s very easy now for people to speak positively about our team and about my situation because of the way we’ve played this season,” Subban told sportsnet.ca during a candid one-on-one conversation Thursday. “But I don’t forget the people that said that I’ll never play in a Habs jersey again or that I’m selfish or that I’m greedy or that I’m confused. I’m thinking I’m a lot better than what I actually am.
“I don’t forget those things, and maybe those comments and those people are the reason why we’re having such a great season this year.”
The message has been consistent and clear: Beyond the success of the bleu, blanc et rouge, everything is secondary.
“I’m trying to be a leader for my team,” Subban explained. “I’m not trying to just be a good player, I’m trying to be a player that guys can rely on every night to step up and do the job and that guys know is going to be a professional and think about this team first.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/johnston-subban-burning-to-prove-em-wrong/
“I don’t forget those things, and maybe those comments and those people are the reason why we’re having such a great season this year.”
The message has been consistent and clear: Beyond the success of the bleu, blanc et rouge, everything is secondary.
“I’m trying to be a leader for my team,” Subban explained. “I’m not trying to just be a good player, I’m trying to be a player that guys can rely on every night to step up and do the job and that guys know is going to be a professional and think about this team first.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/johnston-subban-burning-to-prove-em-wrong/
What I have in bold is the argument. By definition, being the best in a category means you do in fact receive a trophy for that category. But unfortunately like you said, it's subjective to opinions.
Now when you look at how the players played so far this season, Subban is the better player. Playing better in every facet of the game. If you want to talk about the first 14 games of the season where he scored 9 points and played under 20 mins a game (19:58), so be it. Yes he was sheltered. In his first game, he practiced for 2 days and with a new coach, he just saw a young man, not the top D man we see playing.
Now if we look at the games after that, his last 20 games. 25 points, 25:01 ATOI. I think the whole notion that he doesn't play the most minutes, or the toughest minutes is outdated. Sure it isn't 27 minutes like Suter, but I can't understand someone voting for Suter because of ATOI over the way Subban has controlled games offensively and defensively.
I just can't see ATOI factoring in. He may of been sheltered in his first 14 games but if he plays 42 games (includes the other 8 to be played), that is only 33%, which is is not "a good part of the season".
Like you said you watched the games, you must of saw him on the ice in critical matchups and in important minutes. He was there, maybe not at first, but he is and will be there from now on. Suter has played some non norris like hockey in probably 33% of his season, at least Subban was only sheltered.
NHLFutureGuy3
Registered User
- Aug 22, 2008
- 539
- 9
MasterDecoy
Who took my beer?
i disagree, i think that hockey's dinosaurs will award to someone with reputation
We already got the discount...this year and next year
Lets not be too greedy guys
Subban will probably be better next year too...
Best part of this is we will have the cap space to pay him
Norris Trophy its not even a question...whats good to play 4 more mins per game if your +/- is +1?
Lets not be too greedy guys
Subban will probably be better next year too...
Best part of this is we will have the cap space to pay him
Norris Trophy its not even a question...whats good to play 4 more mins per game if your +/- is +1?
We already got the discount...this year and next year
Lets not be too greedy guys
Subban will probably be better next year too...
Best part of this is we will have the cap space to pay him
Norris Trophy its not even a question...whats good to play 4 more mins per game if your +/- is +1?
But if the habs packaged the discount of this year and next into a long term deal, you get the discount over a long period of time.
Beendair Donedat
Punk in Drublic
Jesus Christ. You guys act as if having a great young defenseman that's leading all blueliner's in points, goals and his own team in scoring is a bad thing. The kid has been a complete professional this year and he's a huge reason why the Habs have turned it around. Subban is amazing and having one of the best defensemen in the NHL is a luxury. He'll get his money and I hope he wins many Norris trophies and Stanley Cups wearing the Bleu Blanc et Rouge.
Not to mention he's been also used a lot more since Diaz went down.
I agree that it's really stupid to make TOI the absolute factor. Actually, I find it even more impressive. The fact that PK missed camp and a handful of games at the beginning of the season and yet leads all Dmen in goals and pts, playing as dominantly as he has in both sides of the rink, is pretty darn impressive.
Ad
Upcoming events
-
-
-
-
Game 3 Florida Panthers @ Tampa Bay Lightning - Florida Panthers leads series 2-0Wagers: 9Staked: $6,233.00Event closes- Updated:
-