Is Ovechkin a top 5 forward in the league?

[Dekes For Days]

I'm confused - Ovechkin has more ice time than Matthews or doesn't?

He does. This doesn't mean it was "earned" more than Matthews.

Scoring "rates" don't mean anything.

This is incorrect. It is valuable information.

All scoring "rates" do for you is give you a sense of what the future might hold.

This is incorrect. Scoring rates add context to things that happened in the past, and provide a clearer picture of what the future likely holds, which is what this whole thread was about.

You're saying Matthews is the fastest through 100m even though he never wins a race. "Yeah but it's because my starts suck, but just wait until i start better!"

It has nothing to do with good or bad starts. Starts are something in control of the individual, and in this example, Matthews would be faster over the whole 100m.

This is an advantage that one person is getting over another, and in the sports world, everybody knows that unequal circumstances are not the best way to determine who is best at something.

 

[Nino33]

If I’m not mistaken, did Tyler Ennis not score at a better ESP/60 than Matthews this past season?

I'm looking at the numbers right now. You're wrong. It's not close.

Really?

Doesn't this link show Ennis above Matthews? 2018‑2019 NHL Scoring Leaders

Among players who played at least half the 2018-19 season, Matthews was 13th, Ennis 10th (Ovechkin 5th, Tavares 2nd)

 

[Dekes For Days]

Really?
Doesn't this link show Ennis above Matthews? 2018‑2019 NHL Scoring Leaders
Among players who played at least half the 2018-19 season, Matthews was 13th, Ennis 10th (Ovechkin 5th, Tavares 2nd)

I don't even see Ennis on that page.

I'm looking directly at Natural Stat Trick. Matthews ES P/60 was 2.93. Ennis was 1.84.

Matthews had 53 ES points in 1,085 minutes. Ennis had 13 ES points in 425 minutes. Do the math yourself if you don't believe me.

This is a beyond stupid tangent anyway, since all you're attempting to do is ignore context of the situations to discredit a set of statistics based on your improper use of them.

 

[Nino33]

I don't even see Ennis on that page.

Look again.
#25 Tyler Ennis
#29 Auston Matthews

EDIT - Oops, I see you two are talking about points.
You and I were talking about goals not points (I'm thinking the other posting mistyped, and was actually talking about goals not points too, given their Ennis/Matthews comment).


P.S. I was surprised to see Matthews not even in the top 10 for goals per 60 (and below both Ovechkin and teammates) given how often that stat is used to promote Matthews as being the better goalscorer

 

[Dekes For Days]

Look again.
#25 Tyler Ennis
#29 Auston Matthews

#25 on that list is Stamkos, and #29 on that list is Duchene. I have no idea what you're looking at.

I gave you the site. I gave you the numbers from that site. I gave you the raw numbers and minutes from NHL.com if you want to do it yourself.

As I said, this is a beyond stupid tangent anyway, since all you're attempting to do is ignore context of the situations to discredit a set of statistics based on your improper use of them.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I don’t think Ovie is a top 15 forward in the NHL anymore. Crosby and Malkin are still easily in the top 10 but Ovie has lost a step or 3.

 

[Thenameless]

Ovechkin is by far the best goal scorer of his era, and is one of the best goal scorers of all time. And now people are comparing Matthews to Ovechkin in goal scoring? In three seasons, Matthews has yet to have a 50 goal season. Sheesh.

 

[Nino33]

#25 on that list is Stamkos, and #29 on that list is Duchene. I have no idea what you're looking at.

For even strength GOALS per 60 Ennis (and others, including Ovechkin) are all above Matthews

Beyond another poster's typo no one but you was talking about points per 60.

Matthew's ESG per 60 was surprisingly low last year (not even top 10 among those who played at least half the season...3rd on his own team)

 

[nbwingsfan]

I don't even see Ennis on that page.

I'm looking directly at Natural Stat Trick. Matthews ES P/60 was 2.93. Ennis was 1.84.

Matthews had 53 ES points in 1,085 minutes. Ennis had 13 ES points in 425 minutes. Do the math yourself if you don't believe me.

This is a beyond stupid tangent anyway, since all you're attempting to do is ignore context of the situations to discredit a set of statistics based on your improper use of them.

We’re talking about es GOALS/60... which on QuantHockey has Ennis aboveMatthews.

Does this make Ennis a better goal scorer than Matthews? Would he lead the league in scoring if given Ovechkins ice time?

 

[Dekes For Days]

For even strength GOALS per 60 Ennis (and others, including Ovechkin) are all above Matthews

By 0.03 while playing against much weaker competition in a small sample in limited minutes, which is a MASSIVE outlier from the entire rest of his career.

When we increase that sample a little bit to 2 years, we see Matthews actually increases to 1.53 ES G/60, and Ennis plummets to 0.76; literally less than half of Matthews. This isn't even getting into the PP.

As I said, all you're attempting to do is ignore context of the situations to discredit a set of statistics based on your improper use of them. This exact same topic was discussed earlier in this thread.

Beyond another poster's typo no one but you was talking about points per 60.

You mean the poster who literally started this entire ridiculous tangent? Am I supposed to read minds?

 

[Dekes For Days]

We’re talking about es GOALS/60

You should tell that to this guy:

If I’m not mistaken, did Tyler Ennis not score at a better ESP/60 than Matthews this past season?

 

[Future GOAT]

I feel like Zeke is alive and well in this thread.

As for Ovechkin, I think he probably slots outside of the top 5 going into 19/20.

 

[nbwingsfan]

You should tell that to this guy:

I mean we’ve been talking about goals this entire time as well as has already been corrected, so you’d think with your almighty intelligence you’d know a spelling mistake.

Now back on topic, was Matthews not top 10 in esg/60 last season? Was Tyler Ennis a better rate scorer than Matthews ?

 

[Dekes For Days]

I mean we’ve been talking about goals this entire time as well as has already been corrected, so you’d think with your almighty intelligence you’d know a spelling mistake.

I went by what you said. People bring up all kinds of stupid arguments in their attempt to discredit rate statistics. How am I supposed to know which one you're going to pick?

Was Tyler Ennis a better rate scorer than Matthews?

I've already gone over this above.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I don’t think Ovie is a top 15 forward in the NHL anymore. Crosby and Malkin are still easily in the top 10 but Ovie has lost a step or 3.

Can't tell if serious.

 

[hb12xchamps]

The guy is 34 and has put up 100 goals the past two seasons all while capturing a SC and Conn Smythe. I get that some guys have more points, but holy shit 100 goals is 100 freaking goals.

 

[Nino33]

If I’m not mistaken, did Tyler Ennis not score at a better ESP/60 than Matthews this past season?

You should tell that to this guy:

It was simply a typo. If you'd actually clicked on the link I provided you would have realized this

Now back on topic, was Matthews not top 10 in esg/60 last season? Was Tyler Ennis a better rate scorer than Matthews ?

I was legitimately surprised that Matthews was 3rd on his own team (and behind Ovechkin too)

 

[Midnight Judges]

The guy is 34 and has put up 100 goals the past two seasons all while capturing a SC and Conn Smythe. I get that some guys have more points, but holy **** 100 goals is 100 freaking goals.

He also leads the NHL in playoff goals over that span and is among the top players in playoff points and PPG.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It was simply a typo. If you'd actually clicked on the link I provided you would have realized this

Typo or not, I have no way of knowing that. I did click on the link, and no, that did not show anything. It actually went to ESP/60.

 

[Nino33]

I did click on the link, and no, that did not show anything. It actually went to ESP/60.

It didn't when I posted it, and it didn't when I added my edit, I don't know why it does now

I'm done here. Have a nice day

 

[nbwingsfan]

I went by what you said. People bring up all kinds of stupid arguments in their attempt to discredit rate statistics. How am I supposed to know which one you're going to pick?


I've already gone over this above.

So the answer was yes?

Was Matthews also outside the top 10 in ESG/60? While being 7th in GPG and 17th in actual goals scored?

And yet you think it’s all of us who are “uninformed” and wrong and that Matthews is the best in the NHL?

 

[Dekes For Days]

So the answer was yes?

Clearly you didn't read very well.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Clearly you didn't read very well.

It’s a simple yes or no answer.
Did Ennis have a better Esg/60 than Matthews last season? I’ll answer for you. Yes he did.

I like how you just completely ignore how Matthews wasn’t in the top 10 for esg/60, 7th in GPG and 17th in total goals

But of course you would, because it goes against the hilariously bad take you have

 

[Midnight Judges]

It’s a simple yes or no answer.
Did Ennis have a better Esg/60 than Matthews last season? I’ll answer for you. Yes he did.

I like how you just completely ignore how Matthews wasn’t in the top 10 for esg/60, 7th in GPG and 17th in total goals

But of course you would, because it goes against the hilariously bad take you have

Seems to be a pattern with this guy: He edits out your point and responds to some small tidbit.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I like how you just completely ignore how Matthews wasn’t in the top 10 for esg/60, 7th in GPG and 17th in total goals

The only thing being ignored here is critical context, by you. This has already been explained multiple times.