Is Matthews making Ovi look a bit replacable?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bedards Dad

I was in the pool!!
Nov 3, 2011
13,716
8,271
Toronto
What's the point of this thread? Bolded especially is factually false... how can Matthew's numbers make Ovechkin's number not look special when Ovechkin's goalscoring is better whatever optic you want to look at?

Ovechkin
- has more goals at the same point in his career,
- had more goals since AM has entered the league
- STILL has a better goals/game ration - which is insane considering his career length
- Something something 9 Rockets to 0 (potentially 1!!)

The issue here is people taking illpucks seriously. Ovi has the most impressive goal.scoring career of all time. Matthews is the new kid in town, but that doesn't take anything away from Ovi.

TL;dr Illpucks makes dumb threads.
 

SaltNPeca

Registered User
Jan 9, 2017
1,997
1,775
Köln
...
I just don't see Ovi being as special as he's made out to be from a goal scoring perspective (he is good at other things like playmaking) with Matthews performing like this (if he can keep this consistency). That is all.

All Top 25 all time NHL goal scorers are special, Top 10 scoring legends, Top 5 can be argued about as GOAT.

OV been winning Rockets since ya boy was a pre-teen. AM 0 Rockets.

Everything else you write is irrelevant when you "see" OV as non special.
 

filinski77

Registered User
Feb 12, 2017
2,581
4,195
This is a joke right?

Ovi First 5 years
GoalsGP82-adj
528153
468246
658265
567958
507257
Matthews first 5 years
GoalsGP82-adj
408240
346245
376845
477055
283762
Ovi last 5 years
GoalsGP82-adj
338233Age 31
498249Age 32
518152Age 33
486858Age 34
193545Age 35
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
First 5 years: Ovi beats him in actual goals, 82-game adjusted goals (which gives Matthews a huge benefit of the doubt considering games he missed), and goal-scoring compared to peers (Ovi with 3 straight goal/gp leads and 2 rockets).

If you look at aged 31-35 Ovi vs. Matthews its 3-2 here. With one of those being one of Ovi's worst years of his career, and the other (this season) being a shortened season with only playing intradivision.

The crazy thing is that goalscoring the last few years is higher than it was for half of Ovi's career. He didn't pace for 58 goals last year simply because he was as good as peak Ovi. Imagine what 2008-2010 Ovi would be doing against the league today. He'd be a serious candidate for 65 a year (maybe even 70) during his peak if he played today.

Oh ya, plus he has 9x rockets (regardless of the raw totals)
 

BattleLevel

Registered User
Jan 19, 2014
219
295
Thanks for the laughs to go with my coffee this morning. I look forward to the thread if the Leafs win their next game. "Is Jack Campbell making Brodeur look a bit replaceable?" Or "Is Sheldon Keefe looking like the next Scotty Bowman?" "Is the Maple Leaf logo more aesthetically pleasing than anything ever accomplished in the artistic world?"
 

Hi ImHFNYR

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
7,173
3,087
Wherever I'm standing atm
Imagine an entire forum of people from all over the world recognize how monumentally bad your opinion is (more importantly: how badly you presented it with several hilarious and absurd statements being made) and you lack the self awareness to admit "ok I didn't know what I was talking about, my bad."

People are fascinatingly frustrating
 

mm11

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
6,726
3,850
Fleming island, Fl
Mathews is the best goal scoring center in the NHL right now. Ovi is the greatest pure goal scorer of all time. Auston has a little ways to go.

those paces for Matthew’s are great but Ovi actually has scored 60+goals in a season and a bunch of 50 goal seasons.
would like to see Am do this in the East division and post covid 19 hockey. I just jest leaf fans. Breathe
 

Hi ImHFNYR

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
7,173
3,087
Wherever I'm standing atm
you mean question if a player who had 55 goal pace and 62 goal pace is next Ovi? .
The problem you're running into is that what you said is different from what you think you said.

You made several absurd statements. Both your title and OP present the argument ovi is not even special. If that's not what you meant then you should go back and edit. Based on your OP and further posts you also demonstrated a failure to understand aging, consistency and how truly special ovi is when taking that into account as well.

There's a discussion to be had revolving around how good a goal scorer matthews is compared to ovi at the same age. There's a discussion to be had on if people think his game will continue into his 30s. You didn't do a good job of starting that discussion
 

X66

114-110
Aug 18, 2008
13,549
7,413
Matthews has a long way to go before he's going to be considered an Ovechkin level goal-scorer, it's the longevity part that's very special.

But in terms of a goal-scorer generally speaking, he's one of the best of all time to start his career all things considered.

Ovechkin put up monster points when he entered the league, but star players IMHO benefitted more from all the crazy PP time you saw. And yeah people will say league scoring isn't drastically different, but the absurd amounts of PP time players helps guys like goal scorers.

In their first 5 years in the NHL

Matthews has had 855 minutes on the PP
Ovechkin had 2250 minutes on the PP!!!!

Hell, even in the 5 years Matthews has been in the league, Ovechkin has had 600 more minutes of PP time than him.

We'll never know how gaudy Matthews' numbers would be with that type of time, but even without it and all of the era adjusted stuff, you know he's one of the best to ever do it(so far) and that should be good enough.
 

Cappy76

Registered User
Sponsor
Sep 1, 2005
2,713
756
London, Kentucky
If we're talking pace lets add Ovies missed seasons projected numbers based on his career. He's good for about another 100 goals due to the 2 lockouts within his career and then add in the time missed to the worldwide pandemic. That would put him already over 800 and not simply a threat to Gretz but just a question of when. :naughty:
 

X66

114-110
Aug 18, 2008
13,549
7,413
This is a joke right?

Ovi First 5 years
GoalsGP82-adj
528153
468246
658265
567958
507257
Matthews first 5 years
GoalsGP82-adj
408240
346245
376845
477055
283762
Ovi last 5 years
GoalsGP82-adj
338233Age 31
498249Age 32
518152Age 33
486858Age 34
193545Age 35
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
First 5 years: Ovi beats him in actual goals, 82-game adjusted goals (which gives Matthews a huge benefit of the doubt considering games he missed), and goal-scoring compared to peers (Ovi with 3 straight goal/gp leads and 2 rockets).

If you look at aged 31-35 Ovi vs. Matthews its 3-2 here. With one of those being one of Ovi's worst years of his career, and the other (this season) being a shortened season with only playing intradivision.

The crazy thing is that goalscoring the last few years is higher than it was for half of Ovi's career. He didn't pace for 58 goals last year simply because he was as good as peak Ovi. Imagine what 2008-2010 Ovi would be doing against the league today. He'd be a serious candidate for 65 a year (maybe even 70) during his peak if he played today.

Oh ya, plus he has 9x rockets (regardless of the raw totals)

In their first 5 years in the NHL

Matthews has had 855 minutes on the PP
Ovechkin had 2250 minutes on the PP!!!!

Hell, even in the 5 years Matthews has been in the league, Ovechkin has had 600 more minutes of PP time than him.
 

nhlfan9191

Registered User
Aug 4, 2010
19,585
17,344
Thanks for the laughs to go with my coffee this morning. I look forward to the thread if the Leafs win their next game. "Is Jack Campbell making Brodeur look a bit replaceable?" Or "Is Sheldon Keefe looking like the next Scotty Bowman?" "Is the Maple Leaf logo more aesthetically pleasing than anything ever accomplished in the artistic world?"

I read a post from a Leafs fan in our post game thread on the Habs board last night asking our fans to pick a single team since 1980 that’s better then the Leafs are this season. I’m telling you, I’ve never seen a more obnoxious and delusional group of fans in my life. And I cheer for a team that has more then a fair share of its own.
 

Yackiberg8

Registered User
Mar 11, 2016
2,777
1,666
Halifax
I think if you look at Stamkos, who actually scored 60 once (not just paced for it like Matthews), scored 51 another time, and has had several other 40 goal seasons in his career, and how he's still only sitting at 438, you'll quickly realize you may have jumped the gun on this thread.

Stamkos won a Richard at age 19 and age 21. Matthews might finally win one at 23 though.
It’s unfortunate for Matthews that 2 of his prime seasons have been shortened due to the pandemic, not allowing him to hit those 50 and 60 goal marks.
 

Bluelines

Python FTW!
Nov 17, 2013
12,349
4,559
Ovi is seen by some as the last player that will ever hit 700 goals, the best goal scorer ever etc. Matthews last season had 55 goal pace, this season 62 goal pace, and has never had below a 40 goal pace over 82.

Could Matthews also be a candidate to top 894? His scoring consistency is starting to make Ovi's numbers look like they aren't that special. I know Ovi has won the Richard for a long time and I like Ovi, so kindly post only if you have something to add here.

I just don't see Ovi being as special as he's made out to be from a goal scoring perspective (he is good at other things like playmaking) with Matthews performing like this (if he can keep this consistency). That is all.


You're comparing one special season from Matthews to a special career of Ovi's, Matty ahs a long way to go before he can be talked of in the same circles as Ovi. If both players stopped playing today, Ovi is a first ballot HOFer, Matty will be just a retired athlete. AM is special but he needs a decade or more of this to be considered a peer to Ovi.
 

Number8

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Oct 31, 2007
17,840
16,602
Ovi is seen by some as the last player that will ever hit 700 goals, the best goal scorer ever etc. Matthews last season had 55 goal pace, this season 62 goal pace, and has never had below a 40 goal pace over 82.

Could Matthews also be a candidate to top 894? His scoring consistency is starting to make Ovi's numbers look like they aren't that special. I know Ovi has won the Richard for a long time and I like Ovi, so kindly post only if you have something to add here.

I just don't see Ovi being as special as he's made out to be from a goal scoring perspective (he is good at other things like playmaking) with Matthews performing like this (if he can keep this consistency). That is all.
Matthews is a tremendous young goal scorer. No doubt.

But simple math tells me that 894-179=715 goals.

There are six NHL players in history that have scored more than 715 goals -- one of whom is Ovechkin. So starting today, in order for Matthews to be a "candidate for 894" he will have to outscore virtually every other NHL player in history and play another 15 plus seasons.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but this is just foolishness to speculate about at this stage.

There's a reason why people get so pissy about these sorts of threads. Ridiculous.
 

Leafs87

Mr. Steal Your Job
Aug 10, 2010
14,711
4,775
Toronto
I think if you look at Stamkos, who actually scored 60 once (not just paced for it like Matthews), scored 51 another time, and has had several other 40 goal seasons in his career, and how he's still only sitting at 438, you'll quickly realize you may have jumped the gun on this thread.

Stamkos won a Richard at age 19 and age 21. Matthews might finally win one at 23 though.

To be fair Matthews only started at 19 and last year was cut short. I know Pasta and Ovi finished with more goals but there was 12 games left to play and he was 1 goal behind
 

Bluelines

Python FTW!
Nov 17, 2013
12,349
4,559
I read a post from a Leafs fan in our post game thread on the Habs board last night asking our fans to pick a single team since 1980 that’s better then the Leafs are this season. I’m telling you, I’ve never seen a more obnoxious and delusional group of fans in my life. And I cheer for a team that has more then a fair share of its own.


One fan makes a post and now its a group of obnoxious people? How does that math work?

I can think of a group of more obnoxious fans? The Rocket Riots? Calling 911 / the police on Chara? Coach needs to speak French when only one or two players speak French? The coaches core job is to talk / teach to the players, in ENGLISH ... it's like saying every coach needs to speak German, why?
 

shaner82

Registered User
Apr 18, 2017
1,379
1,452
I think if you look at Stamkos, who actually scored 60 once (not just paced for it like Matthews), scored 51 another time, and has had several other 40 goal seasons in his career, and how he's still only sitting at 438, you'll quickly realize you may have jumped the gun on this thread.

Stamkos won a Richard at age 19 and age 21. Matthews might finally win one at 23 though.

A lot of truth here. I'm a huge Matthews fan. My opinion is he's currently the best goal scorer in the league. But there's a difference between being a top guy for a while and doing it for 15+ years. Matthews has the skill to do it, I don't think anyone is going to deny that, but having the skill and doing it are two different things.

Can Matthews catch Ovi's numbers at the end of his career? It's not impossible. He's showing the ability and it's not like he's peaked yet. But he's got a long way to go and the odds are not in his favour.

Regardless though, even if he were to catch and pass Ovi, it doesn't mean Ovi isn't special or a generational player. What it means is that perhaps 99's total goal record isn't as untouchable as we once though. We all though it wouldn't be beat. Then we thought Ovi might do it but no one else. Now we are talking about 34 if everything goes right for him. 200+ goals will never happen again, but 99's total numbers are beatable. If not by Ovi or Matthews, then someone else one day
 

Calderon

Registered User
Mar 24, 2006
1,086
668
So you're comparing a legend who's won 9 Rockets to a young guy who's yet to win one with four tries. And... and... saying the latter is making the former look not-so-special, maybe even pedestrian? Ahhahaha, wow. Give me one non-insignificant statistic in which Matthews has out-performed Ovechkin at this point of their respective careers.
 

ER89

Registered User
Jul 25, 2018
4,481
4,374
look I love matty and as a leaf fan.... wtf is this post? smh.
 

shtorm2005

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
6,493
6,506
Montreal, Canada
I don't watch Leafs, but my guess is that AM needs closer distance to score, and that might be harder to do consistently over the years, because getting closer is more about team play, and team changes each year. + age factor when you get slower and it's harder to win space in closer distance to the net.

upload_2021-4-8_9-57-31.png
 

Garthinater

Registered User
Nov 22, 2015
2,841
1,481
Matthews first 4.5 seasons:
319 games - 186 goals - 333 points = 0.58 gpg and 1.04 ppg
1x calder


Ovechkin first 4 seasons:
324 games - 219 goals - 420 points = 0.68 gpg and 1.3 ppg.
1x calder
2x rocket
2x Ted lindsay
2x hart
1x art ross
1x calder


But please, tell me how matthews is making ovechkin less special rofl
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->