Is Matthews making Ovi look a bit replacable?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by illpucks, Apr 8, 2021.

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  1. Tavares the Noble I was in the pool!!

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    The issue here is people taking illpucks seriously. Ovi has the most impressive goal.scoring career of all time. Matthews is the new kid in town, but that doesn't take anything away from Ovi.

    TL;dr Illpucks makes dumb threads.
     
  2. YippieKaey Registered User

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    Pacing for X is not scoring X. The two most underrated aspects of Ovi is that he misses almost no games and that his consistency is absolutely legendary.
     
  3. Sasha Orlov Lord of the Manor

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    One of the worst threads of all time, congratulations
     
  4. SaltNPeca Registered User

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    All Top 25 all time NHL goal scorers are special, Top 10 scoring legends, Top 5 can be argued about as GOAT.

    OV been winning Rockets since ya boy was a pre-teen. AM 0 Rockets.

    Everything else you write is irrelevant when you "see" OV as non special.
     
  5. filinski77 Registered User

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    This is a joke right?

    Ovi First 5 years
    GoalsGP82-adj
    528153
    468246
    658265
    567958
    507257
    Matthews first 5 years
    GoalsGP82-adj
    408240
    346245
    376845
    477055
    283762
    Ovi last 5 years
    GoalsGP82-adj
    338233Age 31
    498249Age 32
    518152Age 33
    486858Age 34
    193545Age 35
    First 5 years: Ovi beats him in actual goals, 82-game adjusted goals (which gives Matthews a huge benefit of the doubt considering games he missed), and goal-scoring compared to peers (Ovi with 3 straight goal/gp leads and 2 rockets).

    If you look at aged 31-35 Ovi vs. Matthews its 3-2 here. With one of those being one of Ovi's worst years of his career, and the other (this season) being a shortened season with only playing intradivision.

    The crazy thing is that goalscoring the last few years is higher than it was for half of Ovi's career. He didn't pace for 58 goals last year simply because he was as good as peak Ovi. Imagine what 2008-2010 Ovi would be doing against the league today. He'd be a serious candidate for 65 a year (maybe even 70) during his peak if he played today.

    Oh ya, plus he has 9x rockets (regardless of the raw totals)
     
  6. BattleLevel Registered User

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    Thanks for the laughs to go with my coffee this morning. I look forward to the thread if the Leafs win their next game. "Is Jack Campbell making Brodeur look a bit replaceable?" Or "Is Sheldon Keefe looking like the next Scotty Bowman?" "Is the Maple Leaf logo more aesthetically pleasing than anything ever accomplished in the artistic world?"
     
  7. Hi ImHFNYR Registered User

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    Imagine an entire forum of people from all over the world recognize how monumentally bad your opinion is (more importantly: how badly you presented it with several hilarious and absurd statements being made) and you lack the self awareness to admit "ok I didn't know what I was talking about, my bad."

    People are fascinatingly frustrating
     
  8. mm11 Registered User

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    would like to see Am do this in the East division and post covid 19 hockey. I just jest leaf fans. Breathe
     
  9. Hi ImHFNYR Registered User

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    The problem you're running into is that what you said is different from what you think you said.

    You made several absurd statements. Both your title and OP present the argument ovi is not even special. If that's not what you meant then you should go back and edit. Based on your OP and further posts you also demonstrated a failure to understand aging, consistency and how truly special ovi is when taking that into account as well.

    There's a discussion to be had revolving around how good a goal scorer matthews is compared to ovi at the same age. There's a discussion to be had on if people think his game will continue into his 30s. You didn't do a good job of starting that discussion
     
  10. X66 114-110

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    Matthews has a long way to go before he's going to be considered an Ovechkin level goal-scorer, it's the longevity part that's very special.

    But in terms of a goal-scorer generally speaking, he's one of the best of all time to start his career all things considered.

    Ovechkin put up monster points when he entered the league, but star players IMHO benefitted more from all the crazy PP time you saw. And yeah people will say league scoring isn't drastically different, but the absurd amounts of PP time players helps guys like goal scorers.

    In their first 5 years in the NHL

    Matthews has had 855 minutes on the PP
    Ovechkin had 2250 minutes on the PP!!!!

    Hell, even in the 5 years Matthews has been in the league, Ovechkin has had 600 more minutes of PP time than him.

    We'll never know how gaudy Matthews' numbers would be with that type of time, but even without it and all of the era adjusted stuff, you know he's one of the best to ever do it(so far) and that should be good enough.
     
  11. Cappy76 Registered User

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    If we're talking pace lets add Ovies missed seasons projected numbers based on his career. He's good for about another 100 goals due to the 2 lockouts within his career and then add in the time missed to the worldwide pandemic. That would put him already over 800 and not simply a threat to Gretz but just a question of when. :naughty:
     
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  12. X66 114-110

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    In their first 5 years in the NHL

    Matthews has had 855 minutes on the PP
    Ovechkin had 2250 minutes on the PP!!!!

    Hell, even in the 5 years Matthews has been in the league, Ovechkin has had 600 more minutes of PP time than him.
     
    AvroArrow and Dion TheFluff like this.
  13. nhlfan9191 Registered User

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    I read a post from a Leafs fan in our post game thread on the Habs board last night asking our fans to pick a single team since 1980 that’s better then the Leafs are this season. I’m telling you, I’ve never seen a more obnoxious and delusional group of fans in my life. And I cheer for a team that has more then a fair share of its own.
     
  14. Yackiberg8 Registered User

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    It’s unfortunate for Matthews that 2 of his prime seasons have been shortened due to the pandemic, not allowing him to hit those 50 and 60 goal marks.
     
  15. Bluelines Python FTW!

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    You're comparing one special season from Matthews to a special career of Ovi's, Matty ahs a long way to go before he can be talked of in the same circles as Ovi. If both players stopped playing today, Ovi is a first ballot HOFer, Matty will be just a retired athlete. AM is special but he needs a decade or more of this to be considered a peer to Ovi.
     
  16. Number8 HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

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    Matthews is a tremendous young goal scorer. No doubt.

    But simple math tells me that 894-179=715 goals.

    There are six NHL players in history that have scored more than 715 goals -- one of whom is Ovechkin. So starting today, in order for Matthews to be a "candidate for 894" he will have to outscore virtually every other NHL player in history and play another 15 plus seasons.

    I'm not saying it's impossible, but this is just foolishness to speculate about at this stage.

    There's a reason why people get so pissy about these sorts of threads. Ridiculous.
     
  17. Leafs87 Mr. Steal Your Job

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    To be fair Matthews only started at 19 and last year was cut short. I know Pasta and Ovi finished with more goals but there was 12 games left to play and he was 1 goal behind
     
  18. Bluelines Python FTW!

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    One fan makes a post and now its a group of obnoxious people? How does that math work?

    I can think of a group of more obnoxious fans? The Rocket Riots? Calling 911 / the police on Chara? Coach needs to speak French when only one or two players speak French? The coaches core job is to talk / teach to the players, in ENGLISH ... it's like saying every coach needs to speak German, why?
     
  19. shaner82 Registered User

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    A lot of truth here. I'm a huge Matthews fan. My opinion is he's currently the best goal scorer in the league. But there's a difference between being a top guy for a while and doing it for 15+ years. Matthews has the skill to do it, I don't think anyone is going to deny that, but having the skill and doing it are two different things.

    Can Matthews catch Ovi's numbers at the end of his career? It's not impossible. He's showing the ability and it's not like he's peaked yet. But he's got a long way to go and the odds are not in his favour.

    Regardless though, even if he were to catch and pass Ovi, it doesn't mean Ovi isn't special or a generational player. What it means is that perhaps 99's total goal record isn't as untouchable as we once though. We all though it wouldn't be beat. Then we thought Ovi might do it but no one else. Now we are talking about 34 if everything goes right for him. 200+ goals will never happen again, but 99's total numbers are beatable. If not by Ovi or Matthews, then someone else one day
     
  20. Calderon Registered User

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    So you're comparing a legend who's won 9 Rockets to a young guy who's yet to win one with four tries. And... and... saying the latter is making the former look not-so-special, maybe even pedestrian? Ahhahaha, wow. Give me one non-insignificant statistic in which Matthews has out-performed Ovechkin at this point of their respective careers.
     
    Garthinater and Sasha Orlov like this.
  21. ER89 Registered User

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    look I love matty and as a leaf fan.... wtf is this post? smh.
     
  22. SnowblindNYR Registered User

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    Still waiting for his best work.
     
  23. Hideo Kojima COVID CUP CHAMPIONS!

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    Matthews hasn't hit 50 goals in a season once.

    Bye.
     
  24. shtorm2005 Registered User

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    I don't watch Leafs, but my guess is that AM needs closer distance to score, and that might be harder to do consistently over the years, because getting closer is more about team play, and team changes each year. + age factor when you get slower and it's harder to win space in closer distance to the net.

    upload_2021-4-8_9-57-31.png
     
  25. Garthinater Registered User

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    Matthews first 4.5 seasons:
    319 games - 186 goals - 333 points = 0.58 gpg and 1.04 ppg
    1x calder


    Ovechkin first 4 seasons:
    324 games - 219 goals - 420 points = 0.68 gpg and 1.3 ppg.
    1x calder
    2x rocket
    2x Ted lindsay
    2x hart
    1x art ross
    1x calder


    But please, tell me how matthews is making ovechkin less special rofl
     
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