Is Matt Murray Broken?

[Empoleon8771]

So here is the thing with everyone saying that Murray will eventually figure it out and get hot. That's all well and good but last year while we waited for him to figure it out, we were dropping points, that resulted in us finishing 3rd, 4 points out of 1st, 3 points out of home ice advantage. Look what happened in the playoffs. Home ice is huge especially when you are playing the Islanders in the first round. Can we, and do we want to, wait for Murray to figure it out again and lose points? It doesn't matter if he gets hot later in the year. Lost points are lost points.

And again, Murray starting out slow last year cost the Penguins a total of 2 games. That's it, Murray's bad start caused them to lose one game 4-3 and another game 6-3. The rest of his "bad games" were either blowouts or still resulted in wins.

It's nonsensical to assume that not playing Murray would have guaranteed those wins in the first place, and it's more nonsensical to blame him for losing those two winnable games earlier in the year when you can criticize almost any player for losing a game.

 

[Icarium]

So here is the thing with everyone saying that Murray will eventually figure it out and get hot. That's all well and good but last year while we waited for him to figure it out, we were dropping points, that resulted in us finishing 3rd, 4 points out of 1st, 3 points out of home ice advantage. Look what happened in the playoffs.

The same playoffs where the only game which we almost won was the first one which was away from home? We have actually been terrible at home in the playoff since winning the Cup in 2017.

And Sully is already using Jarry more than Murray, so I am not sure exactly what you want. Is anyone here suggesting to play Murray more than Jarry in the next few weeks? As far I can see practically everyone is all for riding Jarry for the time being.

 

[Darren McCord]

Its crazy how quick people want to dump Murray. He's an RFA and even if Jarry slowly took over. I dont trust just DeSmith as a back up. Look at Washington. When Hotlby struggled they didnt trade or move him. He played as the back up until he came back in to backstop them to a cup.

There is no reason to move Murray before the offseason. If he demands 7+ and Jarry continues his strong play then you can start looking for deals. But right now its just not worth the risk.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm just offended that @ImporterExporter is giving Seinfeld fans a bad name.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Ah, yes, your favourite "I was right, losers!" shtick, right on cue.



I understand enough to be sick of your constant condescension, pal.



It's called exaggeration, google it. Though, after your remarks about Murray being playing at ECHL level one would think that you are familiar with the concept.. guess not.

You clearly don't understand the meaning of condescension.

Murray in the first 2 months of last year played at an ECHL level. Them's straight facts. He MIGHT be playing at an AHL level right now but that's being generous.

 

[Shady Machine]

You clearly don't understand the meaning of condescension.

Murray in the first 2 months of last year played at an ECHL level. Them's straight facts. He MIGHT be playing at an AHL level right now but that's being generous.

Can you please point us to the FACTS that prove Murray was playing at an ECHL level? I'm not sure you understand what a fact is.

 

[ImporterExporter]

LOL You are the one that said Jarry was a better prospect because of where they are drafted but are now saying you aren't interested in the past. Keep on moving hose goal posts dogg.

You don't understand context. At all.

I'm not interested in the past as it pertains to how Murray is playing now. Or generally over the bulk of the past 2 years. Defending the man at this point based on shit he was doing in the AHL and in 2016-17 is asinine.

And none of that changes the fact that Jarry was, in every f***ing circle, a better goalie prospect coming out.

Next.

 

[Shady Machine]

You don't understand context. At all.

I'm not interested in the past as it pertains to how Murray is playing now. Or generally over the bulk of the past 2 years. Defending the man at this point based on **** he was doing in the AHL and in 2016-17 is asinine.

And none of that changes the fact that Jarry was, in every ****ing circle, a better goalie prospect coming out.

Next.

I definitely understand context. You just ignore it when it doesn't suit your argument. If you don't care about the past WHAT does it matter if Jarry was a "better prospect" coming out? How in the world is that relevant today?

 

[Icarium]

You clearly don't understand the meaning of condescension.

You are doing it again,

 

[ImporterExporter]

I'm just offended that @ImporterExporter is giving Seinfeld fans a bad name.

Oh no! I've "offended" like 6 people on an internet message board!

Giving Seinfeld a bad name? Nah man. I know more about that show than 99.9% of people on earth. It's the greatest sitcom of all time. By a wiiiiiiide margin. But you know who gives it a bad name? The clowns who never once gave Jason Alexander major awards for his brilliance. Or the idiots who think The Office is in any way, shape or form, comparable. Or fans of Friends.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Can you please point us to the FACTS that prove Murray was playing at an ECHL level? I'm not sure you understand what a fact is.

When you're posting stretches of save %'s in the mid .800's you're playing at an ECHL level.

What else do you want to know about in the thrones of hockey/life?

 

[ImporterExporter]

You are doing it again,

Posting facts and pointing out the hypocritical nature of those defending Murray's shit play just as the facebook Pens fans used to do with MAF?

Because yeah, I'm doing a lot of that right now. There is reality and there is the fantasy world some of you live in where you just throw shit at a wall and pretend it makes sense.

 

[Shady Machine]

Oh no! I've "offended" like 6 people on an internet message board!

Giving Seinfeld a bad name? Nah man. I know more about that show than 99.9% of people on earth. It's the greatest sitcom of all time. By a wiiiiiiide margin. But you know who gives it a bad name? The clowns who never once gave Jason Alexander major awards for his brilliance. Or the idiots who think The Office is in any way, shape or form, comparable. Or fans of Friends.

Seinfeld is the greatest sitcom of all time. We agree for once!

Haha you're a character that's for sure. Congrats on your elite knowledge of Seinfeld. I'm sure that makes you feel good.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Seinfeld is the greatest sitcom of all time. We agree for once!

Haha you're a character that's for sure. Congrats on your elite knowledge of Seinfeld. I'm sure that makes you feel good.

We've actually agreed on many things over the years! We just don't on Murray right now. And I'm not even one who's suggesting we move on from him. If I was, I'd be an idiot. And biased.

Legendary knowledge. Legendary.

 

[Icarium]

Really, "I don't think you understand the English language bub. " isn't condescending? I guess you need to consult with a dictionary too.

Also, making fun of other posters for being wrong about Tanev having recently posted this gem is pretty funny.

 

[Tom Hanks]

So here is the thing with everyone saying that Murray will eventually figure it out and get hot. That's all well and good but last year while we waited for him to figure it out, we were dropping points, that resulted in us finishing 3rd, 4 points out of 1st, 3 points out of home ice advantage. Look what happened in the playoffs. Home ice is huge especially when you are playing the Islanders in the first round. Can we, and do we want to, wait for Murray to figure it out again and lose points? It doesn't matter if he gets hot later in the year. Lost points are lost points.

DeSmith played pretty well and put up good numbers to give the team a chance. The team not getting points at various times was really on the skaters. They put in some shockers too much of the time.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't doubt Murray will rebound like he usually finds a way to, I just question his consistency and just how much he rebounds and that's a valid issue with him. He is either good, decent, or putrid. And you don't really know what you will get on a week to week basis even when he's "turned it" around. That's not a guy you should be riding as your #1. Murray did rebound last year, but people also make it out like he was playing some Vezina caliber hockey. He had moments where he did, yes, but also still struggled for stretches, then in the playoffs...well yeah. People turned on Fleury faster with less.

The issue for me, isn't that oh Murray shouldn't be #1, I don't think Murray should be the sole #1. Maybe it's time for the Penguins to try something different and stop declaring who the #1 is and say they have two great goalies, they'll play the one they need to for certain games.

Murray rebounds? Great.
Jarry has been fantastic, the team needs to ride that solid play until Murray is more consistent and then rotate.

Why is having 1 starter and a guy behind him that might win you a game, sometimes, as your only options?

I pour on Murray, but man, he makes it easy to. Against the Red Wings, that game was almost blown as well. Against the Red Wings. For a guy that people boast about being mentally tough and a guy that "forgets" bad games, he must be having some serious memory issues because there's a lot of forgettable games on his plate right now. Also, there's the ever so looming fact that he is a RFA and the team wants to keep him but at what cost?

Say Murray is up and down all season, still wants 5m+ while Jarry remains consistent all season long.

If that scenario plays out, I work something out with Seattle and make it so we only lose Murray and some minor turd like Aston-Reese in the expansion draft and still keep Jarry & DeSmith.

 

[IceColdOx]

Saw this on the so-called controversy. It's not a bad thing when your backup looks good.

There Is No Controversy With The Pittsburgh Penguins Goaltending

 

[EightyOne]

...Yeah, naw, it's a controversy

 

[Flying Dego]

I don't doubt Murray will rebound like he usually finds a way to, I just question his consistency and just how much he rebounds and that's a valid issue with him. He is either good, decent, or putrid. And you don't really know what you will get on a week to week basis even when he's "turned it" around. That's not a guy you should be riding as your #1. Murray did rebound last year, but people also make it out like he was playing some Vezina caliber hockey. He had moments where he did, yes, but also still struggled for stretches, then in the playoffs...well yeah. People turned on Fleury faster with less.

The issue for me, isn't that oh Murray shouldn't be #1, I don't think Murray should be the sole #1. Maybe it's time for the Penguins to try something different and stop declaring who the #1 is and say they have two great goalies, they'll play the one they need to for certain games.

Murray rebounds? Great.
Jarry has been fantastic, the team needs to ride that solid play until Murray is more consistent and then rotate.

Why is having 1 starter and a guy behind him that might win you a game, sometimes, as your only options?

I pour on Murray, but man, he makes it easy to. Against the Red Wings, that game was almost blown as well. Against the Red Wings. For a guy that people boast about being mentally tough and a guy that "forgets" bad games, he must be having some serious memory issues because there's a lot of forgettable games on his plate right now. Also, there's the ever so looming fact that he is a RFA and the team wants to keep him but at what cost?

Say Murray is up and down all season, still wants 5m+ while Jarry remains consistent all season long.

If that scenario plays out, I work something out with Seattle and make it so we only lose Murray and some minor turd like Aston-Reese in the expansion draft and still keep Jarry & DeSmith.

We need to see how this year plays out. Obviously the safe play is a tandem and gives us options for this year.

I run into the concern for next off-season and how the money shakes out. If Murray looks like a rollercoaster all year and Jarry performs solid I'll find it hard to commit any big money to MM. In this case I'm a proponent of trading for assets and allocating more money into our skaters. Bolster up the roster. That hinges greatly on Jarrys full year/playoff performance.

I'm for what makes us harder to play against and puts us in position for cup runs. If we can save massively on goaltending why wouldn't we take a shot?

 

[Andy99]

We need to see how this year plays out. Obviously the safe play is a tandem and gives us options for this year.

I run into the concern for next off-season and how the money shakes out. If Murray looks like a rollercoaster all year and Jarry performs solid I'll find it hard to commit any big money to MM. In this case I'm a proponent of trading for assets and allocating more money into our skaters. Bolster up the roster. That hinges greatly on Jarrys full year/playoff performance.

I'm for what makes us harder to play against and puts us in position for cup runs. If we can save massively on goaltending why wouldn't we take a shot?

Yep, I’m in this camp too...if Jarry plays as well or better than Murray throughout the season and Murray is not fantastic in the POs, I think the Pens’ best course is to trade Murray and sign Jarry to a DeSmith deal in the offseason and run with Jarry and DeSmith making $2.5 mil combined...just think how much we’d save for other parts of our roster...not to mention the return for Murray

 

[Flying Dego]

Yep, I’m in this camp too...if Jarry plays as well or better than Murray throughout the season and Murray is not fantastic in the POs, I think the Pens’ best course is to trade Murray and sign Jarry to a DeSmith deal in the offseason and run with Jarry and DeSmith making $2.5 mil combined...just think how much we’d save for other parts of our roster...not to mention the return for Murray

Makes sense to me...I'm sure there's others scared to take that Leap or have a strong affiliation to Murray bc they feel he's been slighted. I'm one that's just never fully bought that he's an up and coming Vezina contender. Good goalie but inconsistent and injured.

Now things change, if Jarry sucks and Murray takes over well that answers that we pay him a fat contract and cut good skaters to compensate.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Saw this on the so-called controversy. It's not a bad thing when your backup looks good.

There Is No Controversy With The Pittsburgh Penguins Goaltending

Murray is our back-up.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yep, I’m in this camp too...if Jarry plays as well or better than Murray throughout the season and Murray is not fantastic in the POs, I think the Pens’ best course is to trade Murray and sign Jarry to a DeSmith deal in the offseason and run with Jarry and DeSmith making $2.5 mil combined...just think how much we’d save for other parts of our roster...not to mention the return for Murray

The thing about Jarry is that he's not on some hot streak the way DeSmith was, when you saw DeSmith last year on that streak, you knew it was going to end, his style was not going to let him hold that up much longer and it really didn't, he started to level out. Jarry on the other hand, he's playing his game and he's getting more comfortable with the speed of the game and his talent is showing through.

I suspect at the end of the season, Rutherford is going to have to shit or get off the pot with who he lets dictate is the #1 on this team, does Sully get his boy Murray to stick around or do we gift the Seattle team a better goalie in Jarry and f*** ourselves with another cap issue.

I 100% don't feel Jarry is going to be worse than Murray the rest of this season. I just don't see it.

Also, Jarry would probably get closer to 2.5-3m/yr, a far cry from 5-6m+ a year the guy he's severely outplaying, was going to be commanding.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Murray was fantastic when the pens were letting him only face around 20-25 on average and minimizing high danger chances in the back 2 back cups, we all knew that level of play the Pens were doing was not sustainable at all. His weaknesses started to pop up here and there, also made into a bigger deal than it really was during that time, but the Pens weren't able to sustain that play and he started to see a little more rubber and higher scoring chances against him and he started to struggle.

I will eat crow if Murray turns it around, but even if he does, it's just year 3 of him struggling and turning it around. Then if he has a mediocre playoffs, he's Fleury 2.0 without the personality.