Is MacKinnon McDavid's Ovechkin?

AvsFan29

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Mar 15, 2018
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We are talking about their peak. People are saying that another player can be the “Ovechkin to McDavid’s Crosby” in that Ovechkin and Crosby were undisputedly the two best players in the NHL for multiple seasons during their peak. Right now, McDavid is undisputedly number one and there is nobody who compares to McDavid or is even undisputedly number two.
Nobody since prime Jagr or Lemieux can compare to peak Ovechkin.
 

Regal

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Mar 12, 2010
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With Crosby maybe, but OV? OV won the rocket in a walk last season, PPG+, playoff rocket, PPG+ playoff, 2nd in goals right now and PPG+ again. I'll give you McDavid and MacK, probably Malkin and Kucherov. But who are the other 10-15 comparable to that?

Oh you
 

AvsFan29

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Mar 15, 2018
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It's ok, it'd be like having Foppa again...where we could make do if he missed the entire regular season, as long as he was healthy for the playoffs.

Plus with the MacK-steal, we have the room to carry 1 bad contract...as long as some of MacK's clutchness rubbed off on him.
I'd just just stay the course and keep developing and drafting players than sign a big free agent. I'd maybe sign a top winger but even then I'd prefer to develop.
 

Eltuna

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Nov 12, 2017
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Not all players you mean? None of those players were as good as Matthews as a rookie. Also no one is saying for sure he will produce better than MacKinnon currently, we are saying he definitely has the potential. Not sure how you could watch him play and come away thinking otherwise.
Eh, he might be able to produce like Mackinnon one day, but better? Last year Mack was on pace for 108 points and this year for 126. He has 140 points in the 102 games since the start of last season for a ppg of 1.37. I think Matthews will be more consistent, but it’s hard to think his peak is going to be higher than what Mackinnon has done the last couple of seasons (he still could slip up this year somewhat but is a good bet for around 100 points again). To be unarguably better Matthews would need a 110 point season at the least which is a pretty crazy bar to set.
 

AvsFan29

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Mar 15, 2018
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Eh, he might be able to produce like Mackinnon one day, but better? Last year Mack was on pace for 108 points and this year for 126. He has 140 points in the 102 games since the start of last season for a ppg of 1.37. I think Matthews will be more consistent, but it’s hard to think his peak is going to be higher than what Mackinnon has done the last couple of seasons (he still could slip up this year somewhat but is a good bet for around 100 points again). To be unarguably better Matthews would need a 110 point season at the least which is a pretty crazy bar to set.
MacKinnon is more consistant. Matthews puts up points in bunches and has periods where he's invisible. He's also injured frequently. Matthews has 7 points in his past 3 games, but had 2 assists in the previous 5. I can't remember the last time MacKinnon only had 2 points over 5 games. I know it hasn't happened this year, but I'm pretty sure it didn't happen last season, either. Since the beginning of last season, Matthews is 10th in points per game.
 

Eltuna

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MacKinnon is more consistant. Matthews puts up points in bunches and has periods where he's invisible. He's also injured frequently. Matthews has 7 points in his past 3 games, but had 2 assists in the previous 5. I can't remember the last time MacKinnon only had 2 points over 5 games. I know it hasn't happened this year, but I'm pretty sure it didn't happen last season, either. Since the beginning of last season, Matthews is 10th in points per game.
I’m more talking about careers. Matthews won’t have a season as bad as some of Mack’s so far, but he probably won’t have one decisively better than Mack last year or this year either. Currently Mackinnon is more consistent but this is very likely Mackinnon’s peak, we’re not sure if Matthews is in his peak yet.

Mackinnon has had a similar start to a guy like Thornton where it took him a little while to really get going while Matthews came out the gate strong right away.
 

AvsFan29

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I’m more talking about careers. Matthews won’t have a season as bad as some of Mack’s so far, but he probably won’t have one decisively better than Mack last year or this year either. Currently Mackinnon is more consistent but this is very likely Mackinnon’s peak, we’re not sure if Matthews is in his peak yet.

Mackinnon has had a similar start to a guy like Thornton where it took him a little while to really get going while Matthews came out the gate strong right away.
Yah he had to deal with some pretty ridiculous crap his first few years in Colorado. It's good to see them get back to being competitive.
 

JasonRoseEh

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Oct 23, 2018
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Backstrom is a very good player too. Point just seems to be taking over games on the regular this season.
I mean, let's not forget Backstrom had a 109 point season and has consistently been one of the 5 best 2 way C in the league for years. Point is one of the best in the league through 30ish games right now, but that doesn't denigrate elite consistency over the better part of a decade.

Sure, would I rather have Point moving forward 5 years? Sure, but I'm not about to put him ahead of a C that is on the backside of the prime in a stellar career. Too knee jerk for my liking.
 

BlueBaron

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MacKinnon is more consistant. Matthews puts up points in bunches and has periods where he's invisible. He's also injured frequently. Matthews has 7 points in his past 3 games, but had 2 assists in the previous 5. I can't remember the last time MacKinnon only had 2 points over 5 games. I know it hasn't happened this year, but I'm pretty sure it didn't happen last season, either. Since the beginning of last season, Matthews is 10th in points per game.
He is never invisible which means you don't watch him or you are missing something.

Which game was he invisible this year?
 

sufferer

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Dec 6, 2017
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I'd love to see a reporter stick a mic in MacKinnons face after a game and say, "You scored 2 goals tonight. Are you McDavid's Ovechkin?"
 

CupsOverCash

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Jun 16, 2009
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I mean, let's not forget Backstrom had a 109 point season and has consistently been one of the 5 best 2 way C in the league for years. Point is one of the best in the league through 30ish games right now, but that doesn't denigrate elite consistency over the better part of a decade.

Sure, would I rather have Point moving forward 5 years? Sure, but I'm not about to put him ahead of a C that is on the backside of the prime in a stellar career. Too knee jerk for my liking.

Not discrediting anything he has done in the past just talking about right now.
 

wetcoast

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Nov 20, 2018
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McDavid
MacKinnon
Kucherov
Rantanen
Malkin
Ovechkin
Wheeler
Crosby
Maybe Marner

I can't even tell what this is, a fantasy hockey list maybe?

Maybe the OP makes it a bit confusing but Crosby/AO had the rivalry right form the start of their careers together.

So in that same flavour, I'm looking at guys drafter in the 3ish years including and before and after McDavid's draft as guys competing with Mathews.

4 of these guys might drop off really quickly, if they haven't already.
 
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FalcorMulch

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Aug 29, 2018
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Injury & historically impotent team around him dragging down his raw totals.

Next.

Ask how many people accept the injury excuse for Matthews? Approximately zero.

McDavid stands alone. If MacKinnon stays on his pace again this year then he earns a spot in the conversation.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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Ask how many people accept the injury excuse for Matthews? Approximately zero.

McDavid stands alone. If MacKinnon stays on his pace again this year then he earns a spot in the conversation.

Ok, I was asked for explanations, not excuses. So what do I care whether you accept them or not? Injuries are the explanation for his down 2nd season and him not maintaining PPG past the first ~30 games of his 3rd season :dunno:
 

Varan

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Nov 27, 2016
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did you people forget the younger OV? it’s been a while since those days so I understand if you don’t remember how good he was but this thread is an insult to him
 

Nooodles

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May 7, 2010
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Just kidding around. Those would be concerns, but I'm just bugging the leaf fans who turn every thread into leafs talk.

Maybe, if you are not bugging the Leafs fans on purpose with posts like this, they wouldn't turn this thread into a Leafs talk.
Just maybe.

Because you know, it is really hard to have and actual, normal conversation if the other side is just constantly bashing and throwing shit on the player we would like to discuss.
 

NotCommitted

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Jul 4, 2013
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I want in on the fun!

I think to have a good rivarly you need something else than two good old Canadian boys. You can have one, but two is just so bland oatmeal starts to sound like an exciting trip down the flavour lane. Btw Matthews counts as Canadian in this instance, because he interviews like one. With Crosby/Oveckin you at least had Oveckin, I don't know what he said in interviews back in the day, but just looking at that face it becomes quickly apparent this is not your traditional hockey "persona". The way he looks at the camera has more personality than all Crosby interviews from his career combined. Yes, I'm exaggerating.

If you want some nice 'rivarly' to discuss endlessly on the forum and an easy narrative for the media to grab, it's obvious Matthews & Laine is your thing. You just have to hope Matthews gets to play a healthy season soon and Laine improves his overall game enough and gets enough ice time to at least be in the discussion beyond his goal scoring only. They might not ever be the two best players in the league (though they still might!) but in terms of made up rivarly, they are already the number one guys.

EDIT: obviously if it's supposed to be two best players in the league and all about statlines and accomplishments, then it gets more complicated, but I don't think those things alone make up for a good "rivarly". It's just not very interesting by itself unless there's some kind of narrative to the thing that goes beyond a statline.
 

AvsFan29

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Mar 15, 2018
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I can't even tell what this is, a fantasy hockey list maybe?

Maybe the OP makes it a bit confusing but Crosby/AO had the rivalry right form the start of their careers together.

So in that same flavour, I'm looking at guys drafter in the 3ish years including and before and after McDavid's draft as guys competing with Mathews.

4 of these guys might drop off really quickly, if they haven't already.
I was asked to name players that are better than Matthews right now
 

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